The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

Sure, it's a large place. But that doesn't mean it's also a large zone.
Suramar is a large city, a d that took up about a third of the zone. Zin'azshari is a large city, and that one only took up about a quarter of the zone.

There are plenty of ways in which Undermine could be a "large city" without taking up an entire zone.
As with the options mentioned above: It could be part of the zone, or only having one section of it accessible. Or as I have been mentioning, having it be an instanced raid in which we only see one small part of it despite there ostensibly being more to it.

The problem though is that both Zalarek and Emerald Dream were large zones. So it stands to reason that the zone in 11.1 is also going to be large.

In addition, in every source regarding Undermine, nothing is mentioned surrounding the location, it's simply undermine beneath Kezan. Vanilla maps back that up as well, with Undermine essentially being its own entire landmass.

So if Undermine doesn't fill the zone, what else would be adjacent to it?

[Enrif]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/earthen...-within-343165

interesting lines here, which reference things back from the RPG

I've spent many cycles studying the runic ley lines beneath Khaz Algar and the Ringing Deeps. They were familiar to me, like a language I have always known and understood.
But here in these lands. the lines are different, the runes somehow familiar yet entirely alien to me.
These runemasters speak of them as 'veins within the earth'. They have many legends on their origins and speak of an 'earthmother' and her veins that surge with primordial essence.
They even speak of nearby healing hot springs powered by ley line energy! How intriguing...

The runic leylines and the runemasters are a recreation of what was the text for the runemaster class there

[Makorus]

Something something Krexus.

The nerubians aren't even in the trailer, the trailer just features a set amount of things they want players to focus on for whatever reason. Similar to how the Emerald Dream dragon from the DF CE was in the trailer but, AFAIK, not involved in the expansion at all.

Being an Elf (type), Harronir are the big bang for race changes in the whole expansion, so they want to tease them early.

Dunno. It just feels to me like the Harronir plot point was scrapped (for now) because Rootlands was cut (probably for being too much like ED too early after DF), but the cinematic was already in production so they couldn't just scrap Orweyna.

All of the Harronir elements in the expansion seem incredibly, incredibly underdeveloped to the point where you wonder why they even put them in there to begin with other than being like "Uhm, we will show up sometime I guess!"

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.wowhead.com/news/earthen...-within-343165

interesting lines here, which reference things back from the RPG



The runic leylines and the runemasters are a recreation of what was the text for the runemaster class there

Rune magic has been a thing since Wrath.

[Enrif]

Rune magic has been a thing since Wrath.

rune magic has been a things since the RPGs which predate Wrath. But the exact text about earthen, tauren, dwarves them calling the tauren runemaster is all part of the very first text block of the runemaster in the TTRPG.

The traditions of the runemasters date back to the ancient time of the titans, creators of runic magic. Dwarves quickly mastered the mysteries of the runes taught to them. However, as generations passed, dwarves forgot their heritage and lost all knowledge of runes and their hereditary powers.
Tauren in Kalimdor rediscovered the power of runes. An ancient race as well, tauren remembered the myths of runecasting and revived interest in this nearly lost art. The dwarves that came to Kalimdor with Jaina's Alliance Expedition learned tauren runecasting techniques. Tauren and dwarves do not share good relations, but they were eager to share knowledge of runes and titan myths.

[Timester]

Dunno. It just feels to me like the Harronir plot point was scrapped (for now) because Rootlands was cut (probably for being too much like ED too early after DF), but the cinematic was already in production so they couldn't just scrap Orweyna.

All of the Harronir elements in the expansion seem incredibly, incredibly underdeveloped to the point where you wonder why they even put them in there to begin with other than being like "Uhm, we will show up sometime I guess!"

Which is actually very Metzen. And would explain the sudden appearance of Gazlowe and goblin storyline, it's not the first time Metzen change the story just because someone presented to him a new plot.

[Santandame]

Something regarding Undermine that’s a little different from the current Undermine discussion.

Whilst it absolutely should be present in an underground expansion (it should have been the capital city), if by chance we don’t get it, which previous expansion would it have made sense in? Cataclysm? BfA? I could have seen it as patch content in BfA.

I remember back in Classic when the belief was that Steamwheedle Port in Tanaris, a place of very little importance, would one day be the port that leads us to Undermine. Oh the possibilities.

[Enrif]

Something regarding Undermine that’s a little different from the current Undermine discussion.

Whilst it absolutely should be present in an underground expansion (it should have been the capital city), if by chance we don’t get it, which previous expansion would it have made sense in? Cataclysm? BfA? I could have seen it as patch content in BfA.

I remember back in Classic when the belief was that Steamwheedle Port in Tanaris, a place of very little importance, would one day be the port that leads us to Undermine. Oh the possibilities.

Cataclysm didn't had it's own new expansion hub, instead we got SW and OG updated, so i would place it there. And before MoP with pandaren, goblins would have made the most sense to be a neutral race. So in a alterante timeline i would say we don't get gilneas and worgen, but a full undermine as a capital, with neutral goblins. The worgen could have stayed a monstrous species that is just a enemy, with the gilneas just being humans that rejoin the alliance (not a new playable race)

[Timester]

Something regarding Undermine that’s a little different from the current Undermine discussion.

Whilst it absolutely should be present in an underground expansion (it should have been the capital city), if by chance we don’t get it, which previous expansion would it have made sense in? Cataclysm? BfA? I could have seen it as patch content in BfA.

I remember back in Classic when the belief was that Steamwheedle Port in Tanaris, a place of very little importance, would one day be the port that leads us to Undermine. Oh the possibilities.

Kezan is indeed one of the lands that could be easily an expac, with all the different Trade Cartels with each have a different zone and style of construction, Zandalari remnants, Deathwing's worshippers remnants, etc.

Heck, as goblins as they are now are the ones with the most diverse type of settlements in-game.

Yet, they are using Venture Co. as "ultra-capitalist exploiters being ultra-capitalists exploiters" in TWW.

[Santandame]

Part of me is still clinging to the extremely misguided hope that we’ll get a South Seas proper expansion, not what BfA was. Our own ships with procedurally generated islands, zones such as Tel Abim, Plunder Isle, Hiji, Kezan surface with Undermine as a proper city but I seriously doubt it will ever happen at this point.

Educated guesses for the expansions following TWSS are Avaloren and Northern Kalimdor. Who knows how we get Avaloren too, whether it’ll take place over several expansions or not.

[milkmustache]

Which is actually very Metzen. And would explain the sudden appearance of Gazlowe and goblin storyline, it's not the first time Metzen change the story just because someone presented to him a new plot.

This was my thought on it too. It matches the shuffle of DF on his arrival and we know TWW was well in development when he returned.

Yet, they are using Venture Co. as "ultra-capitalist exploiters being ultra-capitalists exploiters" in TWW.

My hopes are they lean further into the bargaining aspect of it, which is why I keep mentioning an Ethereal thread that can be tied in here. Only two other races in the game so far uses cartels. Ethereals and Brokers. We already saw Gallywix speak with Brokers, so Ethereals are the next step.

[Cheezits]

Dunno. It just feels to me like the Harronir plot point was scrapped (for now) because Rootlands was cut (probably for being too much like ED too early after DF), but the cinematic was already in production so they couldn't just scrap Orweyna.

All of the Harronir elements in the expansion seem incredibly, incredibly underdeveloped to the point where you wonder why they even put them in there to begin with other than being like "Uhm, we will show up sometime I guess!"

Future patch tease is way more likely than "we have to put them in the expansion because we fucked up with the cinematic".

Like what? Really?

There is a tease for Zaralek with the magic gem(?) questline that tells Dracthyr to go underground. The Dream is directly teased through Ysera's return and the tree plot. They absolutely tease future patches in launch. Azshara stuff in BFA was overt.

Hell if you want to be a doomer and say there is no Silithus this expansion then you get the two zone teases through Goblinshit and Harronir/Roots in launch JUST like how DF had two main patch teases (though I still think Titan Patch was possible) for its zones. No idea what the megadungeon would be in this case where Rootlands is the finale. It could just be Beledar and after Rootlands its a wrap and we move on to Midnight.

Or... incredibly funny thought... they are removing TWW's megadungeon specifically to get to Midnight faster because they are aware way more people care about it.

[Lady Atia]

Future patch tease is way more likely than "we have to put them in the expansion because we fucked up with the cinematic".

Like what? Really?

There is a tease for Zaralek with the magic gem(?) questline that tells Dracthyr to go underground. The Dream is directly teased through Ysera's return and the tree plot. They absolutely tease future patches in launch. Azshara stuff in BFA was overt.

Hell if you want to be a doomer and say there is no Silithus this expansion then you get the two zone teases through Goblinshit and Harronir/Roots in launch JUST like how DF had two main patch teases (though I still think Titan Patch was possible) for its zones. No idea what the megadungeon would be in this case where Rootlands is the finale. It could just be Beledar and after Rootlands its a wrap and we move on to Midnight.

Or... incredibly funny thought... they are removing TWW's megadungeon specifically to get to Midnight faster because they are aware way more people care about it.

Lmao, they won't cut the megadungeon as it's success literally led them to redesigning M0's. And they won't cut TWW shorter than it's planned anyways, as in, Midnight and TLT will be "as short" as TWW.

[Cheezits]

Lmao, they won't cut the megadungeon as it's success literally led them to redesigning M0's. And they won't cut TWW shorter than it's planned anyways, as in, Midnight and TLT will be "as short" as TWW.

This is the most likely option, yeah. The "this is a megadungeon" plot is just more obscure than the two "these are new areas" plots they are spelling out in TWW launch.

It could be like how in DF the megadungeon was tied to an existing open area, and it's just something we are overlooking that is currently in base 11.0 Khaz Algar. If that's the case, my money is on some kind of incursion into Beledar.

[Jastall]

I don't think very many people would have predicted they would deal with the Infinite Dragonflight plotline in the megadungeon and end the expansion with Fyrakk and the Emerald Dream. We know hints of what Blizzard is cooking, but I don't think anyone can pretend they know exactly what they're cooking and when.

[Cheezits]

I don't think very many people would have predicted they would deal with the Infinite Dragonflight plotline in the megadungeon and end the expansion with Fyrakk and the Emerald Dream. We know hints of what Blizzard is cooking, but I don't think anyone can pretend they know exactly what they're cooking and when.

Ehhh, the giant door to the Temporal Conflux and the discussions around it says otherwise. The Dream was more ambiguous: the tree was involved, but how the Dream would factor into the zone (or if the zone WOULD have the tree, when would it be planted?) was up in the air. Even "Ice and Fire attack the tree" was brought up a few times as a raid idea before the Wellspring Temple raid was confirmed (this was of course half right, with the Vyranoth twist meaning it was fully Fire vs Tree)

TWW currently lacks a giant door that will open at some point which means its harder to posit an exact location for any zone or megadungeon opening up. Undermine tunnel is mentioned but not actually on the map (yet). The closest thing is the roots around the Harronir but there isn't a "root door" or an overtly obvious area that will open up into a tunnel or a dungeon portal.

[Viridiel]

Ehhh, the giant door to the Temporal Conflux and the discussions around it says otherwise. The Dream was more ambiguous: the tree was involved, but how the Dream would factor into the zone (or if the zone WOULD have the tree, when would it be planted?) was up in the air. Even "Ice and Fire attack the tree" was brought up a few times as a raid idea before the Wellspring Temple raid was confirmed (this was of course half right, with the Vyranoth twist meaning it was fully Fire vs Tree)

TWW currently lacks a giant door that will open at some point which means its harder to posit an exact location for any zone or megadungeon opening up. Undermine tunnel is mentioned but not actually on the map (yet). The closest thing is the roots around the Harronir but there isn't a "root door" or an overtly obvious area that will open up into a tunnel or a dungeon portal.

There's a caved-in cave entrance in the goblin camp in the Ringing Deeps, but the quests are buggy so I haven't been able to follow along enough to see if it's mentioned explicitly or not. I assume it's the tunnel they entered from, but it leads to an area that showed up on the dev map and was seemingly removed. It might be the location of the battleground.

There are a lot of inaccessible areas in Azj-Kahet that could easily have a portal added to them (bottomless pits and tunnels), but yeah no ridiculously conspicuous doors like the Temporal Conflux.

[Cheezits]

There's a caved-in cave entrance in the goblin camp in the Ringing Deeps, but the quests are buggy so I haven't been able to follow along enough to see if it's mentioned explicitly or not. I assume it's the tunnel they entered from, but it leads to an area that showed up on the dev map and was seemingly removed. It might be the location of the battleground.

There are a lot of inaccessible areas in Azj-Kahet that could easily have a portal added to them (bottomless pits and tunnels), but yeah no ridiculously conspicuous doors like the Temporal Conflux.

I haven't heard of the cave entrance, do you have a picture?

Sorry for bad editing, but are you referring to this mystery area to the right of Opportunity Point from the dev map?



It should be noted that the Venture Co/Niffen town is directly south of Opportunity Point.

- - - Updated - - -

So I did some more digging and on this early minimap, there are two discolored rock formations. One is the possible west exit from Opportunity Point, but the other is directly north of the Venture Co town, so maybe they are going to make a tunnel between the town to Opportunity Point as well?



The area definitely changed its shape from the dev map, however.

[Viridiel]

I haven't heard of the cave entrance, do you have a picture?

Sorry for bad editing, but are you referring to this mystery area to the right of Opportunity Point from the dev map?

<snip>

It should be noted that the Venture Co/Niffen town is directly south of Opportunity Point.

I can't get into the game right now to get a screenshot of the actual cave, but this is roughly where it is, right next to the elevator:


And this is roughly the same point on the map I was referring to (it's actually the placeholder world map, not the dev map, my bad):


It looks like more Black Blood from Azj-Kahet but it was really, really unfinished before it was removed. It seems there was originally a river flowing down into a huge drop into a separate section of Azj-Kahet. The river and waterfall have been replaced with the caved-in tunnel.

[Cheezits]

It looks like more Black Blood from Azj-Kahet but it was really, really unfinished before it was removed. It seems there was originally a river flowing down into a huge drop into a separate section of Azj-Kahet. The river and waterfall have been replaced with the caved-in tunnel.

If this is in fact not scrapped, this could be the tie-in for the goblins. I kind of see lines up above it so maybe they are pumping the black blood?

A pipe or a highway/road?

[Ielenia]

The problem though is that both Zalarek and Emerald Dream were large zones. So it stands to reason that the zone in 11.1 is also going to be large.

In addition, in every source regarding Undermine, nothing is mentioned surrounding the location, it's simply undermine beneath Kezan. Vanilla maps back that up as well, with Undermine essentially being its own entire landmass.

So if Undermine doesn't fill the zone, what else would be adjacent to it?

Go back to pre-BfA lore and find me anything about the isles of Kul'Tiras and what existed outside the city. You don't have anything, and yet Blizzard created Stormsong Valley and Drustvar. Outside Zandalar they created Vol'dun and Nazmir. Similarly, can you point out in the lore previous to the Legion expansion about anything that existed outside Suramar? Anything about the Highmountain tauren?

Blizzard can easily come out with stuff that exists outside undermine: mines, industries, farms, simply open areas. And if undermine it's a place where we'll invade and attack, we are most likely not going to be settled in there, so that means there will be a settlement outside undermine for us to make our base of operations on.