The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Varodoc]

I seriously doubt Mekkatorque is making an appearance in 11.1 if its Undermine. Undermine would essentially be a Horde venture probably involving Gazlowe and Thrall dealing with whatever Gallywix is up to.

Also considering Alleria's dichotomy with Xal'atath, I wouldn't consider this expansion anywhere close to Orc/Horde centric.

This is truly the bleakest scenario of all. A repeat of Dragon Soul, where the Alliance does absolutely nothing.

I genuinely hope that this will not happen.

And yet, it is likely to happen. Blizzard's love for the Horde is well-known.

[Timester]

I'm afraid that Undermine will be the main patch content of 10.1.

When that happens, My only request to Blizzard is that they do not forget about the Alliance and give them some material to work with.

This expansion is shaping up to be yet another Orc/Horde-centric expansion, as Thrall is clearly the main character. I don't know how people can look at the trailers we've got and not conclude that Thrall is the main character of TWW.

Yet that doesn't mean that the Alliance can't be given some material to work with, let us not repeat Cataclysm's mistakes. It's a given that the patches will be Horde-centric, but I still hope that Mekkatorque and the Gnomes will be given some material to work with for 10.1.

Uh, Thrall only reappears at the end level campaign. The main characters in 11.0 are Moira, Dagran, Magni, Brann, Anduin and Alleria.

There is no faction content in TWW so far.

[Ielenia]

Which was never my argument.

You're arguing against it, though. Because you keep repeating "undermine is this way in the RPG books and nothing else at all can be added to it", while ignoring facts about how Blizzard has always, and I do mean always have expanded concepts and locations. Drustvar and Stormsong Valley. Nazmir and Vol'dun. Pandaria. Etc.

Undermine was portrayed as a congested, mercantile tinker city with slums in one corner and lavish pleasure palaces in another.

In the RPG. Nothing guarantees it'll be exactly how you envision it in the main game.

There is no mention of unsettled areas surrounding Undermine or any surrounding areas at all. It's all Undermine.

This is also another example of elements from the "non-canon RPG" being utilized in WoW.

Again you're using the RPG books as canon sources because undermine has not yet been implemented into the game and all we have a mentions of it.

I never said they wouldn't. I said that it has never been portrayed as having anything surrounding it since it's a city inside a volcano underneath Kezan.

Again, you're avoiding the point. Kul'Tiras has never been described as having Drustvar and Stormsong Valley. Zuldazar has never been described having a desert and a swamp as neighboring zones.

Not to mention, undermine has never been described as "being only a city and nothing else at all whatsoever" around it.

I'm simply stating the facts here.

You misspelled "avoiding" there. You're avoiding the facts. You're avoiding the fact that Blizzard has always expanded areas and locations from the lore when implementing them into the game.

[Timester]

That would be completely anticlimactic.

This whole expansion is about Azeroths first contact and our journey to the Core, using the giant air duct in the middle of our expansion hub to get to it.
They have teased the World Soul in all their cinematic promo and more, to then go "nuh uh" and leave her out until, what? another 5-6 years? is not gonna bode well.

Azeroth desperately needs development, people need a personal connection to her character for this saga to pay off.
So far all she's been is a silent plot device that has not a single direct interaction with us, despite us more or less working as her personal bodyguards.

Precisely. That's why all this goblin sub-sub-plot is just complete side plot. Cinderbrew Meadery is the main example, the Venture Co. is just there, with no direct ties with what's happening with everything else. Not with the Earthen, with the Titan, with the Nerubian, with Harbringer, with Arathi, not story ties at all.

[Alanar]

How many times did this guy get banned..?

Why keep coming back.. jeez.

[Varodoc]

Uh, Thrall only reappears at the end level campaign. The main characters in 11.0 are Moira, Dagran, Magni, Brann, Anduin and Alleria.

There is no faction content in TWW so far.

The end level campaign is regularly more important and matters more than the questing storylines. How haven't people noticed this yet?

It's literally the end level campaign, ofc it will carry more weight than the questing storylines.

The endgame storyline of TWW will most likely be centred around Thrall (Horde character)'s struggle to reunite with the Elements, as all trailers set this up. My problem is that Blizzard will likely forget that the Alliance exists, once again.

[Teriz]

You're arguing against it, though. Because you keep repeating "undermine is this way in the RPG books and nothing else at all can be added to it", while ignoring facts about how Blizzard has always, and I do mean always have expanded concepts and locations. Drustvar and Stormsong Valley. Nazmir and Vol'dun. Pandaria. Etc.

I'm arguing against the belief that Undermine isn't going to take up an entire zone when we have both the RPG books and Vanilla WoW showing otherwise.

In the RPG. Nothing guarantees it'll be exactly how you envision it in the main game.

I never said it did. I simply said that the RPG is evidence that Undermine is a very large place. Blizzard's vanilla development of the location backs that up.

Again, you're avoiding the point. Kul'Tiras has never been described as having Drustvar and Stormsong Valley. Zuldazar has never been described having a desert and a swamp as neighboring zones.

"Unsettled areas surrounding Kul'tiras with hills and forests" and "surrounding islands like Crestfall and Tol'Barand" gave Kul'tiras openings to be expanded to Dustvar and Stormsong valley.

Not to mention, undermine has never been described as "being only a city and nothing else at all whatsoever" around it.

That's exactly how it was described by Blizzard developer who worked on it during vanilla development;

Blizzard originally wanted to include Undermine in the original World of Warcraft along with goblins as a playable race, with Johnathan Staats describing it as "tinker town" and "crazy". However, as the team did not have a lot of goblin art assets, building the goblin homeland would have required "a ton" of work, leading to both Undermine and playable goblins being cut from classic WoW.[15]

Also backing up it's size;

Note that the Undermine was already concepted in the early World of Warcraft beta not as a city on an island, but as a continent southeast of Kalimdor.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Undermine

You misspelled "avoiding" there. Your avoiding the facts. You're avoiding the fact that Blizzard has always expanded areas and locations from the lore when implementing them into the game.

I really have no idea what you're arguing about here. Yes Blizzard could expand the concept, but that isn't going to change the fact that Blizzard has always indicated that Undermine is a large city beneath an island. If you can find evidence to the contrary, be my guest, but by all accounts, Undermine is large enough to take up an entire zone.

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This is truly the bleakest scenario of all. A repeat of Dragon Soul, where the Alliance does absolutely nothing.

I genuinely hope that this will not happen.

And yet, it is likely to happen. Blizzard's love for the Horde is well-known.

Well it's 11.1, not 11.2. I fully expect Alleria and the Void Elves to have a major role in 11.2 as we leave TWW and enter Midnight.

[Timester]

The end level campaign is regularly more important and matters more than the questing storylines. How haven't people noticed this yet?

It's literally the end level campaign, ofc it will carry more weight than the questing storylines.

The endgame storyline of TWW will most likely be centred around Thrall (Horde character)'s struggle to reunite with the Elements, as all trailers set this up. My problem is that Blizzard will likely forget that the Alliance exists, once again.

Again, not in TWW 11.0. Thrall helps the Earthen to train the new Stormriders of Dornogal. That's it.

TWW has absolutely no faction focus besides the arrival of both fleets together.

https://www.wowhead.com/pt/news/alli...d-but-distinct

[Baraden]

All I know is we HAVE to lose this expansion or their promise of evolving and improving WoW's storytelling is done for; Xal'atath could be the first last boss we don't actually kill and lose the fight against if they really had balls

I want War Within and it's locations to be relevant in midnight and last titan

[Teriz]

Precisely. That's why all this goblin sub-sub-plot is just complete side plot. Cinderbrew Meadery is the main example, the Venture Co. is just there, with no direct ties with what's happening with everything else. Not with the Earthen, with the Titan, with the Nerubian, with Harbringer, with Arathi, not story ties at all.

Which would make something like Undermine this expansion’s Zalarek Cavern, since it’s mainly dealing with a specific faction.

[Ielenia]

I'm arguing against the belief that Undermine isn't going to take up an entire zone when we have both the RPG books and Vanilla WoW showing otherwise.

No city in the game takes an entire zone. Even sprawling cities like Boralus, Dazar'Alor and Suramar barely take 1/3 of a zone. Using that exact same book you used to get a 20k population for undermine puts their capital, Zuldazar (now Dazar'Alor) at 17k trolls, and yet the capital is just 1/3 of the zone it sits in. Not to mention the idea that undermine is going to cover an entire zone goes completely against how Blizzard designs zones in their game.

I never said it did. I simply said that the RPG is evidence that Undermine is a very large place.

So are other cities in that same book that in WoW are shown to barely cover 1/3 of a zone, at best.

"Unsettled areas surrounding Kul'tiras with hills and forests" and "surrounding islands like Crestfall and Tol'Barand" gave Kul'tiras openings to be expanded to Dustvar and Stormsong valley.

Neither Drustvar or Stormsong Valley were/are "unsettled areas".

That's exactly how it was described by Blizzard developer who worked on it during vanilla development;

Nothing in your quote backs up your claim that undermine would fill an entire zone with nothing else on it.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Undermine

So is Pandaria an island, but it's not one singular giant city on that island.

I really have no idea what you're arguing about here. Yes Blizzard could expand the concept, but that isn't going to change the fact that Blizzard has always indicated that Undermine is a large city beneath an island. If you can find evidence to the contrary, be my guest, but by all accounts, Undermine is large enough to take up an entire zone.

Your own evidence contradicts you:

Note that the Undermine was already concepted in the early World of Warcraft beta not as a city on an island, but as a continent southeast of Kalimdor.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Undermine

[Teriz]

No city in the game takes an entire zone. Even sprawling cities like Boralus, Dazar'Alor and Suramar barely take 1/3 of a zone. Using that exact same book you used to get a 20k population for undermine puts their capital, Zuldazar (now Dazar'Alor) at 17k trolls, and yet the capital is just 1/3 of the zone it sits in. Not to mention the idea that undermine is going to cover an entire zone goes completely against how Blizzard designs zones in their game.

Like I said earlier; There’s a first time for everything.

[Raetary]

I don't think you know what anticlimactic means.

Anticlimactic means disappointment at the conclusion of an arc/climax.

If TWW ends, and Azeroth is nowhere to be seen, despite being teased from cinematic trailer to epilogue patch, then its definitely disappointing.

[milkmustache]

I'm afraid that Undermine will be the main patch content of 10.1.

When that happens, My only request to Blizzard is that they do not forget about the Alliance and give them some material to work with.

This expansion is shaping up to be yet another Orc/Horde-centric expansion, as Thrall is clearly the main character. I don't know how people can look at the trailers we've got and not conclude that Thrall is the main character of TWW.

Yet that doesn't mean that the Alliance can't be given some material to work with, let us not repeat Cataclysm's mistakes. It's a given that the patches will be Horde-centric, but I still hope that Mekkatorque and the Gnomes will be given some material to work with for 10.1.

lol

that's all

The entire first act is headlined by Alliance characters. Thrall is a major character but still minor compared to Alleria, Anduin, Magni, Moira and Dagrann. Mekkatorque and the gnomes would certainly have some prescense in a hypothetical Undermine patch.

[Varodoc]

lol

that's all

The entire first act is headlined by Alliance characters. Thrall is a major character but still minor compared to Alleria, Anduin, Magni, Moira and Dagrann. Mekkatorque and the gnomes would certainly have some prescense in a hypothetical Undermine patch.

Three out of those five characters are neutral.

Alleria is a Neutral as she left the Ren'dorei group at the end of the Harbinger questline. Anduin has been neutral since the end of SL when he refused to return to Stormwind. Magni has been neutral since Legion where he became the speaker of Azeroth. The only Alliance characters are Moira and Dagran II Thaurissan, who cannot compare with Thrall in terms of popularity and relevance.

[micwini]

How many times did this guy get banned..?

Why keep coming back.. jeez.

the irony in this post

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Three out of those five characters are neutral.

Alleria is a Neutral as she left the Ren'dorei group at the end of the Harbinger questline. Anduin has been neutral since the end of SL when he refused to return to Stormwind. Magni has been neutral since Legion where he became the speaker of Azeroth. The only Alliance characters are Moira and Dagran II Thaurissan, who cannot compare with Thrall in terms of popularity and relevance.

They are all neutral

[Ielenia]

Like I said earlier; There’s a first time for everything.

Hm. Interesting mentality you don't have whenever the discussion is about something not aligned with your interests, but that's neither here nor there.

That said, I find it having a snowball's chance in hell of happening because if Blizzard is going to do a "first time" for something like that, it's not going to be for a zone that will be relevant for a single patch and then forgotten. They'll most likely make it for the main zone of the expansion, i.e., where the expansion main hub is going to be.

[Varodoc]

the irony in this post

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They are all neutral

Thrall isn't neutral. He is the representative of the Orcs on the Horde Council.

What you want to say is that Thrall gives out Neutral quests, aka quests that the Alliance can also do. But if an entire patch takes place in Undermine, are we seriously meant to believe that the Alliance should continue talking quests from Thrall instead of revisiting Mekkatorque?

Where is Mekkatorque? He hasn't been doing anything since BFA.

[micwini]

Thrall isn't neutral. He is the representative of the Orcs on the Horde Council.

What you want to say is that Thrall gives out Neutral quests, aka quests that the Alliance can also do. But if an entire patch takes place in Undermine, are we seriously meant to believe that the Alliance should continue talking quests from Thrall instead of revisiting Mekkatorque?

Where is Mekkatorque? He hasn't been doing anything since BFA.

If a character is available for quests for both factions, they are neutral

[Varodoc]

If a character is available for quests for both factions, they are neutral

You didn't answer the second part of My post.

Why shouldn't Mekkatorque be involved in Undermine? Are Goblin the only ones allowed to participate in a Technology-based storyline?