The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Kiivar86]

So, is everyone ready for the release in a few days? Any final preparations or anything in DF you want to finish first?

How will you guys level? Will you only do the main storyline quests and then finish off with side quests if needed, or will you clear out all quests in the entire zone before moving on to the next?
When I played on beta I cleared out all quests in the first zone and ended up being level 75 when I got to the Ringing Deeps.

I'm off for the next two weeks (unrelated to the release, I always take the last week of August off anyway and I have an absurd amount of leave, that I have to "burn off" some before year's end) so I'm just going to take things at my usual pace and enjoy myself. Probably finish main storyline and some side quests as needed.

In the past I pushed myself hard so I could get the mounts I wanted ASAP but there's honestly no mounts in TWW that have me really chomping at the bit, so I'm ok with just taking my time and see what comes my way.

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

Just realized something: when Dalaran falls, we might be at risk of losing the Forge of the Guardian and - as a result - Alodi. Wouldn't surprise me if it was an ulterior motive of Xal's attack on Dalaran was to snag the Forge, given it's capabilities.

It would be a shame for it to go out without a bang considering it's technically an important part of Guardian lore (it's what the Council used to empower Guardian's).

I would be surprised if the WoW writers thought about that at all.

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So I plan to level through main campaign on my main, but want alternate methods on alts.

Can Delves be used to level? If so, how comparative are they to dungeons for experience?

You will probably end up running hundreds if not thousands of delves before the expansion is over, so I don't understand why you would bore yourself of them before you're even max level.

[Makorus]

Just realized something: when Dalaran falls, we might be at risk of losing the Forge of the Guardian and - as a result - Alodi. Wouldn't surprise me if it was an ulterior motive of Xal's attack on Dalaran was to snag the Forge, given it's capabilities.

It would be a shame for it to go out without a bang considering it's technically an important part of Guardian lore (it's what the Council used to empower Guardian's).

We also have Kathra'natir powering Dalarans defense system in a Soulstone, so I imagine he should probably break free.

[Santandame]

Which means they were planning stuff for BFA while Legion was going on. That literally helps my point. Metzen never intended for TWW to be the next part of his story.

Except, as you yourself said, the last thing Metzen worked on was the launch cinematic for Battle for Azeroth. He didn’t work on the rest of the lore for BfA, nor did he work on the lore for Shadowlands or Dragonflight. As a result, The War Within, which he is writing the lore for, is absolutely the next part of his story. He’s absolutely going to use previous hooks for his current story utilising the story he previously wrote. Of course he’s going to use aspects of Shadowlands and Dragonflight too, because disregard canon lore will just make for bad writing. But it’s not a stretch at all to assume that The World Soul Saga is what he originally envisioned for the WoW story to progress towards if he had stayed on after Legion. He had no input on the rest of BfA, Shadowlands and Dragonflight so it’s very likely those weren’t part of his vision prior to those expansions. It’s not enough to warrant calling other people odd over, just because you love the lore of Shadowlands.

[Joshuaj]

Except, as you yourself said, the last thing Metzen worked on was the launch cinematic for Battle for Azeroth. He didn’t work on the rest of the lore for BfA, nor did he work on the lore for Shadowlands or Dragonflight. As a result, The War Within, which he is writing the lore for, is absolutely the next part of his story. He’s absolutely going to use previous hooks for his current story utilising the story he previously wrote. Of course he’s going to use aspects of Shadowlands and Dragonflight too, because disregard canon lore will just make for bad writing. But it’s not a stretch at all to assume that The World Soul Saga is what he originally envisioned for the WoW story to progress towards if he had stayed on after Legion. He had no input on the rest of BfA, Shadowlands and Dragonflight so it’s very likely those weren’t part of his vision prior to those expansions. It’s not enough to warrant calling other people odd over, just because you love the lore of Shadowlands.

Doesn't Blizzard work on these things 2 expansions ahead of time? Pretty sure they had the story planned ahead of time. Hell, the ending of WoD hinted at us battling the Black Empire after the Legion conflict (this was during the Malfurion Moose quest).

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Also, I like the setting lore of SL. I don't like the narrative, similar to everyone else. No reason for you to bring that up however.

[Foolicious]

Just realized something: when Dalaran falls, we might be at risk of losing the Forge of the Guardian and - as a result - Alodi. Wouldn't surprise me if it was an ulterior motive of Xal's attack on Dalaran was to snag the Forge, given it's capabilities.

It would be a shame for it to go out without a bang considering it's technically an important part of Guardian lore (it's what the Council used to empower Guardian's).

Its for sure interesting. Especially since its used to transfer power and xal is collecting all kinds of different powers in the dark heart.
But this had me thinking about the pillars of creation. Are they back in dalaran canonically? They are visible in the "hub" from the prepatch event, but im unsure if they always were.
It was always a bit blurry what happened to them after legion and bfa.

[Cheezits]

I have to say I'm not a huge fan of the Dark Heart as it seems like an easy macguffin for Xal to use to get away from any serious magical threat (and it will clearly be used to open or convert something, probably Azeroth and/or Alleria). I would like them to get to the lore of it pretty quickly.

I'm guessing it was something given to Neltharion to convert Azeroth, but he sealed it away because... reasons. Change of heart?

[milkmustache]

Doesn't Blizzard work on these things 2 expansions ahead of time? Pretty sure they had the story planned ahead of time. Hell, the ending of WoD hinted at us battling the Black Empire after the Legion conflict (this was during the Malfurion Moose quest).

I believe this is the case, but there's plenty of reason to believe that a large portion of the early versions of TWW were repurposed.

I think even looking at the tonal shift from 10.0 to 10.1 and 10.2 (not even counting some of the big question marks like Vakthros) we can see something happened behind scenes to change course on the story beats. Iridikron all be seemed to be the final boss of Dragonflight right up until 10.1.5. It's an interesting idea to consider whether or not Dawn of the Infinites always existed in the way that it is in game (particularly Iridikron's involvement with Galakrond and Xal'atath), or if it was going to be all Infinite. But maybe the bigger question here is about Xal'atath's involvement with Iridikron.

I think that TWW, the Earthen and maybe the Arathi and the Harrornir were a main part of the initial TWW outline along with Anduin's return, Azeroth's calls, and the gambit for the Worldsoul. I think Xal always was, but the general story around it was most likely drastically changed to fit this 3 expansions arc, which is where we get things like the supposed highlight of the Harronir in marketing but their near absence in 11.0 (and Rootlands remaining in the files), etc.

My long ramble summary being: you're right they work 2 expansions ahead (our Dragon Isles reference first came in BFA, death and Shadowlands hints came in Legion, etc.), but I believe Metzen returned around the end of Shadowlands and the stark lane changing of the narrative in Dragonflight that coincided with that leaves a reasonable assumption that TWW went through the same, if not more intensive, narrative changes to fit the new vision of The World Soul Saga.

[Raetary]

Are they back in dalaran canonically? They are visible in the "hub" from the prepatch event, but im unsure if they always were.
It was always a bit blurry what happened to them after legion and bfa.

They are visible there because its Legion Dalaran.
The Pillars are canonically at the ToS, keeping it and the Fel rift sealed.

Well, all Pillars except for the Tidestone, which as far as we know is still in Nazjatar.

... Which also technically means that the tomb isn't sealed either.

BfA was such a mess.

[Santandame]

Doesn't Blizzard work on these things 2 expansions ahead of time? Pretty sure they had the story planned ahead of time. Hell, the ending of WoD hinted at us battling the Black Empire after the Legion conflict (this was during the Malfurion Moose quest).

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Also, I like the setting lore of SL. I don't like the narrative, similar to everyone else. No reason for you to bring that up however.

The ending to WoD in regards to Malfurion with the quest rewarding the moose was the breadcrumbs leading up to the Xaxius and Emerald Nightmare storyline with reference to the Rift of Aln. Malfurion instantly takes leave for Val’sharrah upon quest completion. Whilst it’s certainly a nod to N’Zoth in a small way, it’s most definitely not foreshadowing BfA and Nyalotha. It’s just setup for one of the main Legion storylines.

It was brought up because you called someone odd because they felt like The War Within was continuing on from thread points started in Legion. It’s no secret that you’re the forums resident Shadowlands fan, due to trying to steer the majority of conversation into theories surrounding the Progenitors or how unrelated events correspond to them. So it’s no stretch of the imagination that you calling them odd was because they didn’t purposefully highlight Shadowlands threads that were being continued (which you reminded them they would be).

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I believe this is the case, but there's plenty of reason to believe that a large portion of the early versions of TWW were repurposed.

I think even looking at the tonal shift from 10.0 to 10.1 and 10.2 (not even counting some of the big question marks like Vakthros) we can see something happened behind scenes to change course on the story beats. Iridikron all be seemed to be the final boss of Dragonflight right up until 10.1.5. It's an interesting idea to consider whether or not Dawn of the Infinites always existed in the way that it is in game (particularly Iridikron's involvement with Galakrond and Xal'atath), or if it was going to be all Infinite. But maybe the bigger question here is about Xal'atath's involvement with Iridikron.

I think that TWW, the Earthen and maybe the Arathi and the Harrornir were a main part of the initial TWW outline along with Anduin's return, Azeroth's calls, and the gambit for the Worldsoul. I think Xal always was, but the general story around it was most likely drastically changed to fit this 3 expansions arc, which is where we get things like the supposed highlight of the Harronir in marketing but their near absence in 11.0 (and Rootlands remaining in the files), etc.

My long ramble summary being: you're right they work 2 expansions ahead (our Dragon Isles reference first came in BFA, death and Shadowlands hints came in Legion, etc.), but I believe Metzen returned around the end of Shadowlands and the stark lane changing of the narrative in Dragonflight that coincided with that leaves a reasonable assumption that TWW went through the same, if not more intensive, narrative changes to fit the new vision of The World Soul Saga.

There’s definitely hints that seem to foreshadow the story that’ll take place two expansions later; or sometimes just the one. Which makes me think; were there any hints towards The War Within in Shadowlands? I can’t think of any off the top of my head.

[Khaza-R]

I have to say I'm not a huge fan of the Dark Heart as it seems like an easy macguffin for Xal to use to get away from any serious magical threat (and it will clearly be used to open or convert something, probably Azeroth and/or Alleria). I would like them to get to the lore of it pretty quickly.

I'm guessing it was something given to Neltharion to convert Azeroth, but he sealed it away because... reasons. Change of heart?

Its basically the Dragon Soul +++

Its a bit of a retcon that the void was whispering directly to Neltharion. But at least its an interesting one. I still think the whole Silent Star is either the void lord themself or an alternative title they go by.

[Santandame]

Someone mentioned a few pages back they they hope and could see Iridikron being a Titan slayer in The Last Titan. I’m a fan of Iridikron at the moment, but I definitely think it’s essential that he achieves some level of his goal, by killing at least one Titan.

I think if he does kill one, I could see it being Khaz’garoth. Khaz’garoth is the shaper of mountains and valleys, so he’s essentially the “Earth” Titan. Being Iridikron is the Earth Primal
incarnate, it just feels the most fitting that Khaz is one of the potential Titans Iridikron takes out.

Aman’thul and Norgannon are likely the ones to oppose us, with Aggramar and Eonar being the likely ones to assist us. Though I’d prefer Eonar to actually be a villain. That leaves Golganeth and Khaz’garoth as the wild cards. If Iridikron kills both, then even better as it truly establishes him but if he’s destined to only take one then Khaz feels the most poignant. Khaz and Golg also feel the most expendable out of the Pantheon in terms of importance and popularity.

[Foolicious]

They are visible there because its Legion Dalaran.
The Pillars are canonically at the ToS, keeping it and the Fel rift sealed.

Well, all Pillars except for the Tidestone, which as far as we know is still in Nazjatar.

... Which also technically means that the tomb isn't sealed either.

BfA was such a mess.

Yeah that was my train of thought. The kirin tor couldn't protect the tidestone in the tomb and the tomb cannot be sealed without it. So why not move the pillars back to dalaran so they can at least keep an eye on them. No idea why they would leave the other pillars in the tomb.
Or did they take the tidestone after 8.2 back to the tomb and didn't bother to mention it? Guess they were too busy making that N'zoth defeat cinematic to care about such minor lore details back then..

[Khaza-R]

Someone mentioned a few pages back they they hope and could see Iridikron being a Titan slayer in The Last Titan. I’m a fan of Iridikron at the moment, but I definitely think it’s essential that he achieves some level of his goal, by killing at least one Titan.

I think if he does kill one, I could see it being Khaz’garoth. Khaz’garoth is the shaper of mountains and valleys, so he’s essentially the “Earth” Titan. Being Iridikron is the Earth Primal
incarnate, it just feels the most fitting that Khaz is one of the potential Titans Iridikron takes out.

Aman’thul and Norgannon are likely the ones to oppose us, with Aggramar and Eonar being the likely ones to assist us. Though I’d prefer Eonar to actually be a villain. That leaves Golganeth and Khaz’garoth as the wild cards. If Iridikron kills both, then even better as it truly establishes him but if he’s destined to only take one then Khaz feels the most poignant. Khaz and Golg also feel the most expendable out of the Pantheon in terms of importance and popularity.

I severely doubt he's capable of killing even a single weak titan as is. Very possible he will get a power up to pursue his goal. Or uses some other means of subterfuge.

I don't see him being much more than a Gul'dan of TLT though.

[Joshuaj]

The ending to WoD in regards to Malfurion with the quest rewarding the moose was the breadcrumbs leading up to the Xaxius and Emerald Nightmare storyline with reference to the Rift of Aln. Malfurion instantly takes leave for Val’sharrah upon quest completion. Whilst it’s certainly a nod to N’Zoth in a small way, it’s most definitely not foreshadowing BfA and Nyalotha. It’s just setup for one of the main Legion storylines.

It was brought up because you called someone odd because they felt like The War Within was continuing on from thread points started in Legion. It’s no secret that you’re the forums resident Shadowlands fan, due to trying to steer the majority of conversation into theories surrounding the Progenitors or how unrelated events correspond to them. So it’s no stretch of the imagination that you calling them odd was because they didn’t purposefully highlight Shadowlands threads that were being continued (which you reminded them they would be).

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There’s definitely hints that seem to foreshadow the story that’ll take place two expansions later; or sometimes just the one. Which makes me think; were there any hints towards The War Within in Shadowlands? I can’t think of any off the top of my head.

He hints at the Emerald Nightmare's power when you give him the remnant of chaos. Idk if it's in the actual Legion expansion or in the rest of the WoD questline, but Malfurion does make mention of us needing to defeat the Legion before the battle against the Black Empire happens. Regardless, it's stuff Metzen most likely had a hand in writing before leaving.

Also, yes, it was odd cause they believe The War Within is the part 2 of what started in Legion, which isn't the case. The War Within (And the Worldsoul saga as a whole) continues off what was being built up from BFA, SL, and Dragonflight.

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I severely doubt he's capable of killing even a single weak titan as is. Very possible he will get a power up to pursue his goal. Or uses some other means of subterfuge.

I don't see him being much more than a Gul'dan of TLT though.

You act like Iridikron won't just siphon Azeroth's power for himself lol.

[Eldryth]

Someone mentioned a few pages back they they hope and could see Iridikron being a Titan slayer in The Last Titan. I’m a fan of Iridikron at the moment, but I definitely think it’s essential that he achieves some level of his goal, by killing at least one Titan.

I think if he does kill one, I could see it being Khaz’garoth. Khaz’garoth is the shaper of mountains and valleys, so he’s essentially the “Earth” Titan. Being Iridikron is the Earth Primal
incarnate, it just feels the most fitting that Khaz is one of the potential Titans Iridikron takes out.

Aman’thul and Norgannon are likely the ones to oppose us, with Aggramar and Eonar being the likely ones to assist us. Though I’d prefer Eonar to actually be a villain. That leaves Golganeth and Khaz’garoth as the wild cards. If Iridikron kills both, then even better as it truly establishes him but if he’s destined to only take one then Khaz feels the most poignant. Khaz and Golg also feel the most expendable out of the Pantheon in terms of importance and popularity.

Eonar makes the most sense for a friendly Titan. She has her ties to Elune and has gone against Aman'thul already, plus apparently she and Aggramar were the ones who convinced the Pantheon to save Azeroth in the past. Apart from her though, I don't really think we know any of the other Titans well enough to guess what side they'd be on.

Also, I wonder if they might canonize Amitus, the peacekeeping Titan from Hearthstone (who supposedly disappeared after Sargeras's corruption). She could potentially be an ally with ties to the Light just as Eonar is sympathetic to Life. Or create entirely new Titans that we haven't heard of yet.

I severely doubt he's capable of killing even a single weak titan as is. Very possible he will get a power up to pursue his goal. Or uses some other means of subterfuge.

I don't see him being much more than a Gul'dan of TLT though.

He probably isn't strong enough to beat a Titan in a straight fight, but I'm sure he wouldn't be luring them back without some kind of plan. He's been set up as a cunning character so far.

Plus it'd be a waste to spend three expansions building up to his plan for him to just fail completely.

[Joshuaj]

Eonar makes the most sense for a friendly Titan. She has her ties to Elune and has gone against Aman'thul already, plus apparently she and Aggramar were the ones who convinced the Pantheon to save Azeroth in the past. Apart from her though, I don't really think we know any of the other Titans well enough to guess what side they'd be on.

Also, I wonder if they might canonize Amitus, the peacekeeping Titan from Hearthstone (who supposedly disappeared after Sargeras's corruption). She could potentially be an ally with ties to the Light just as Eonar is sympathetic to Life. Or create entirely new Titans that we haven't heard of yet.



He probably isn't strong enough to beat a Titan in a straight fight, but I'm sure he wouldn't be luring them back without some kind of plan. He's been set up as a cunning character so far.

Plus it'd be a waste to spend three expansions building up to his plan for him to just fail completely.

Wouldn't be shocked if the First Ones told the Titans to protect the Worldsouls, but only Eonar and Aggramar wanted to stay the course while Aman'Thul most likely wanted to pump them with Order magics.

[Scyth]

Someone mentioned a few pages back they they hope and could see Iridikron being a Titan slayer in The Last Titan. I’m a fan of Iridikron at the moment, but I definitely think it’s essential that he achieves some level of his goal, by killing at least one Titan.

I think if he does kill one, I could see it being Khaz’garoth. Khaz’garoth is the shaper of mountains and valleys, so he’s essentially the “Earth” Titan. Being Iridikron is the Earth Primal
incarnate, it just feels the most fitting that Khaz is one of the potential Titans Iridikron takes out.

Aman’thul and Norgannon are likely the ones to oppose us, with Aggramar and Eonar being the likely ones to assist us. Though I’d prefer Eonar to actually be a villain. That leaves Golganeth and Khaz’garoth as the wild cards. If Iridikron kills both, then even better as it truly establishes him but if he’s destined to only take one then Khaz feels the most poignant. Khaz and Golg also feel the most expendable out of the Pantheon in terms of importance and popularity.

Imagine a cinematic which shows Iridikron fighting a titan and killing one, that'd be epic.

I'm not sure how they will go about it but I'm quite confident he will kill at least one, otherwise building up his plan from DF would have been a massive waste of time.

It's also possible he might turn out to be a character similar to Illidan, lures the titans back, shows us they are actually evil and dangerous and helps us to defeat them.

I really like him as a character tbh and kind of hope we don't kill him asap in TLT lol

[Merryck]

I think Sargeras will die. For the pantheon to leave the seat, Sargeras will need to be out of the picture.

[Therougetitan]

I think Sargeras will die. For the pantheon to leave the seat, Sargeras will need to be out of the picture.

Aman'thul more like it with how he has extreme opinions compared to other titans like Eonar