The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Lady Atia]

Wrong, again. This is simply a progression bar. Something WoW had since forever. Reputations, Experience points. Battlepasses are a paid for progression bar. While all battlepasses are progression bars, not all progression bars are battlepasses.

No, battlepasses are SEASONAL progression bars. Which this is. You can only do it in season ONE of TWW delves.

[Samin]

Wrong, again. This is simply a progression bar. Something WoW had since forever. Reputations, Experience points. Battlepasses are a paid for progression bar. While all battlepasses are progression bars, not all progression bars are battlepasses.

I guess I just reached the point of the people who called every console "a Nintendo", for me every seasonal reward track is a battlepass. I just don't care that it's offensive to Fortnite players or whatever. It's an easier word than "seasonal reward track" and as soon as I stop caring about justfying myself my life will be so much easier, because despite the arguing people get what we mean, just like we eye-rollingly understood what people mean when they called the Playstation "a Nintendo".

[Enrif]

No, battlepasses are SEASONAL progression bars. Which this is. You can only do it in season ONE of TWW delves.

i guess GW2 is then to OG battlepass holder, as it had "battlepasses" or seasonal progression tracks since at least 2014

[Lady Atia]

i guess GW2 is then to OG battlepass holder, as it had "battlepasses" or seasonal progression tracks since at least 2014

Yes? That's what we are saying for the past 3 pages haha. It has NOTHING to do with having an (optional) paid option lol.

[Enrif]

Yes? That's what we are saying for the past 3 pages haha. It has NOTHING to do with having an (optional) paid option lol.

Except. It is not a battlepass. The term battlepass was first coined with Fortnite, for a specifically, PAID reward track. unpaid seasonal reward tracks. Like those in GW2, are older then the paid for battlepass system.

[Lady Atia]

Except. It is not a battlepass. The term battlepass was first coined with Fortnite, for a specifically, PAID reward track. unpaid seasonal reward tracks. Like those in GW2, are older then the paid for battlepass system.

Well I never played fortnite, I only know them from SWTOR/Hearthstone/Overwatch/Diablo.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

The reason why any form of microtransaction shouldn't be tolerated in WoW is because it's a game that's already expensive up front. If you're already paying monthly for a game and have to purchase another, game-priced expansion pack every two years, you'd expect you've given Blizzard plenty enough. Even gating cosmetic rewards behind microtransactions leaves a sour taste in people's mouths because those cosmetics will invariably exceed anything Blizzard is willing to do elsewhere because of the added incentive for quality—this will create a caste system in which people who pay more than enough and receive bare minimum effort for not crossing the threshold stand beneath those who are willing to sink inordinate amounts of money into superfluous in-game purchases to get the brunt of Blizzard's actual effort.

Frankly, I think there's no excuse for microtransactions in WoW whatsoever outside of charity promotions. In fact, microtransactions shouldn't exist in any game below the level of DLC or expansion packs.

[Cheezits]

So the new performance increases in the latest beta build are fantastic. Able to run my game at higher resolutions now.

[huth]

Well I never played fortnite, I only know them from SWTOR/Hearthstone/Overwatch/Diablo.

You do realise that all the complaints about battlepasses make little to no sense for unpaid systems? The whole issue people have with it is that it's paid.

[milkmustache]

So the new performance increases in the latest beta build are fantastic. Able to run my game at higher resolutions now.

With it being in release candidate state, will we see much more on the beta? I'm unfamiliar with this, but I'm very eager to hear the music build.

[huth]

With it being in release candidate state, will we see much more on the beta? I'm unfamiliar with this, but I'm very eager to hear the music build.

The beta will likely keep going till close to release. These release candidates are probably for the pre-patch.

[Cheezits]

With it being in release candidate state, will we see much more on the beta? I'm unfamiliar with this, but I'm very eager to hear the music build.

It's a little odd as I remember release candidate builds being FULLY complete, but there are still some place holder models/unassigned mounts/music is missing.

But aside from those additions we probably won't see much.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Continuing to give credence to intentionally vague speculationbait that's 4-8 years old now requires upholding such a massive suspension of disbelief in the face of all the evidence of their catastrophic inability to plan even from patch to patch over recent expansions and the abysmal plots that have followed that it's an exercise in futility. I genuinely wonder if the degree to which Danuser's ominous whispers pumped out every year paralyzed the lore community emboldened the writers to double down on believing that the appeal of Warcraft's story is neither style nor substance, but instead trying to decipher puzzles with only a few pieces handed out and no actual solution at the end. And this is all for stuff like "drown yourself in the circle of stars" where the circle of stars just ends up being a room name in the Eternal Palace. Truly game changing stuff.

We're beyond the point where people have noticed and are exhausted with the continual failure of these setups to deliver. Every patch tossing in new ominous whispers and mysterious lore books doesn't feel like careful worldbuilding and setup, it feels like someone spewing out as many pitches and ideas as they can to distract from their last plot ending in an anti-climactic whimper. TWW needs to sell a satisfying and complete story in its entirety, we can't go through 6 years of "actually it'll all pay off in 11.1 -- I mean 11.2 -- I mean Midnight" etc. until we get to "actually it'll all pay off in 13.2 -- okay it sucked but who cares lol it's always been bad".

Biggest issue is that WoW expansions since WoD have never delivered a satisfying, self contained story. You buy the $50 expansion on launch day and play through the content and get a "to be continued". Then you unsub and wait two years for all of the patches to come out and resub hoping to get the conclusion, and instead get another "to be continued in the next expansion!". There is no ending, no catharsis. WoW has become a TV soap opera that drags you around forever until it is cancelled.

[Cheezits]

Biggest issue is that WoW expansions since WoD have never delivered a satisfying, self contained story. You buy the $50 expansion on launch day and play through the content and get a "to be continued". Then you unsub and wait two years for all of the patches to come out and resub hoping to get the conclusion, and instead get another "to be continued in the next expansion!". There is no ending, no catharsis. WoW has become a TV soap opera that drags you around forever until it is cancelled.

Uh... you mean Mists of Pandaria, right?

Also MMO expansion should not be constrained to the same expectations of singleplayer storydriven games, IMO. While WoW's story, and how its expansions deliver story, needs some work... it is incredibly more difficult to make self-contained stories that don't get in the way of future expansions, and so I think they need to be delivered in a different way.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

not only does Iridikron set up both TWW and TLT

Years and years of constantly setting up stuff, but never a cathartic conclusion.

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so far everything in WoW's Trading post is pretty hokey.

The solid color cloaks and shoulder shawls are pretty unique and in demand for serious transmogs and there is nothing like them available through gameplay at any time, as well as the Tauren back totem recolors.

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How is it so hard for people to grasp that people paying for paywalled stuff, will lead to more paywalled stuff, that wasn't paywalled before.....

The ship sailed a decade ago when WoD faction mounts were put behind a cash shop rather than earned through reputation questlines.

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Midnight:

12.0 - Zul’aman raid
12.1 - Azuremyst and Bloodmyst revamp with Yrel raid
12.1.5 - Stratholme or Scarlet Monastery mega dungeon
12.2 - Isle of Quel’danas with Sunwell raid.

I doubt we will get a TBC retread in Midnight. Trolls aren't plot relevant and there are better things that could be explored. What I see happening is that the two Midnight zone/raid patches (if we are even lucky to get two) will have at least one zone in the Void Lord dimension, and another zone will either be visiting the Ethereal homeworld.

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wonder what city will be our capital at Midnight?Silvermoon ?

The expansion is set in Void invaded Quel'thelas, so Silvermoon seems likely. Ofcourse, Silvermoon could be nuked at the start and the expansion is set in the outskirts in some smaller periphery settlement that is remade into a city with Silvermoon being a hostile endgame zone you venture into like Suramar, but I think that to be less likely.

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My guess would be Gilneas and Undercity honestly

Too far away and doesn't tie into the theme of the expansion which is about Quel'thelas (elves) being invaded by the Void and the Army of the Light vanquishing the Void. The only other thing somewhat near Quel'thelas that is thematically related is Light's Hope Chapel.

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Honestly I see Silvermoon City being lost and Isle of Quel'Danas with the Sunwell being the new capital city since that is what we will be protecting.

Wouldn't be very fun gameplay wise if you have to spend at least 30 seconds flying from the city over empty river straits before reaching zones with actual content in them.

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Should TWW (or maybe Midnight) be the best time to update/change Shaman's "Ascendance" forms to proper... elemental forms?

Just add in a glyph or class skin and let people look how they want rather than being forced into a fantasy they might not like.

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Someone got Chronicle 4 early, a couple of things:

Is there a lot of great art by Wei Wang, Peter Lee, Stanton Feng, etc?

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They should totally update it. It has to be one of the worst, if not the worst, visual effects tied to a major damage cooldown ability. Plus, the model we have now was a villain that corrupted the elements. Doesn't seem very heroic for shamans to turn into their antithesis.

The Glyph was way better. But I do like the "inside the elemental" approach too.

I don't understand why such a huge development team that is renowned for their art has allowed player ability animations to languish. You'd think it would be such an easy win for Blizzard to create lots of new, good looking ability animations for players to pick from.

[Joshuaj]

So they released some of Tarot cards for their new books, and while most of them are really obvious (Silithus Sword for Tower, Malfurion as Emperor, Thrall as Hierophant which is kind of dubious), one of them has interesting design decisions:



The World (which is Azeroth, which I guess you can interpret in the context of Tarot Cards) still has the four corner symbols indicating the cyclical nature of the world. The top left one is Nature, bottom right is Death, honestly can't tell what the other two mean.

Interestingly enough, the World Arcana comes at the end of a deck and represents the end of a journey, or completion/unification.

That's Life, Death, Order, and Disorder.

So maybe Nature, Death, Law, and Chaos? Idk.

Light and Shadow aren't there tho, weirdly enough

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And yes Val. The art so far looks great

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Well, i once imagined an alternate timeline for WoW, where instead of adding new classes, they simply added new specs to old classes that have the theme of the added classe. But not just giving them a 4th spec, but exchanging one spec/talent tree with a different one.

For Wrath we get Death Knight specs for Warrior, Paladin and Shaman. Warrior loses Fury and gains Blood (blood DPS with enough heal to off-tank at that point in time), Paladin loses Holy and gains Unholy, Shaman looses Restoration and gain Frost (frost shaman tank!)

I would spin this further for other classes.

For Mists, Rogues loses Subtlety and gains Windwalker, Druid loses Balance and gains Brewmaster, Priest loses Discipline and gain Mistweaver.

For Legion, Warlock loses Demonology and gains Vengeance, Rogue loses Assassination and gains Havoc.

For DF, Mage would loose Arcane and gain Devastation, Shaman would loose Elemental and gain Augmentation, Hunter would loose Survival and gain Preservation

But these versions of the specs would be vastly different to what we actually got. But i found it to be an interesting mind exercise.

There is merit in adding new specs to preexisting classes, as new classes as an expansion feature have no value to people who are already invested in their mains. This is the route GW2 went as they stopped adding new classes that few people would ditch their main to switch to and instead just continued adding new specs to every class that people already invested in their mains might switch to. Well they kinda promised to do this with hero talent specs but they are nowhere near as extensive as GW2's elite specializations, each of which adds a new weapon with new abilities for that weapon, as three new abilities and a healing ability and an ultimate ability as well as several talents you can use.

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Shadowlands cosmology decanonization train let's gooo

Almost all of the problems with Shadowlands' lore would be solved if rather than it being the actual afterlife, it was instead a parallel dimension that was had become parasitic as they intercepted other dimensions' souls before they reached the real afterlife and used those souls for fuel.

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Minor but neat thing that probably won't be newsed because it's so small, but they updated the 3D map model (the one the player character opens when you open the world map) with Khaz Algar as well as just made it a far higher resolution texture.

It's really funny how all of these continents are being stuffed in there in between Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms, how entire navies from WC3 through Cata were sailing between the EK and Kalimdor and never stumbled into them.

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Holy shit...

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Looks like it might be cool, will have to see a scan of the full sized art first. The Jailer did look kinda cool in his armor. He would have been less ridiculed as "the bald man" had he donned that armor by the end of the base game levelling experience rather than players seeing his nipples for 8 months.



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I never liked the armored jailer design, they were clearly going for a Lich King 2.0 level of coolness and it fell flat.

Goes to show how Blizzard lost their creative talent. They were able to create such unique factions in WC3 with the savage wood elven army, the Scourge, and Illidan's coalition and the Legion. They also again created some cool new factions in MoP with the Mogu, the Mantid, and the Zandalari. But then in Shadowlands you get such derivative or bland factions such as passive blue greek angels, tumblrface fairies, two different diluted Scourge rehashes, and generic gothic vampires. Only the 3D printer mobs in Zereth Mortis were kinda unique.

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The Jailer’s and The Primus’ designs absolutely should have been reversed.

The villain being a decrepit old man hunched over his staff could have been a unique final boss fight. He would use magic to keep the raid at a distance and only at the end, after his barriers have been broken and he has become exhausted would the raid close in on him and execute him.

[Cheezits]

Almost all of the problems with Shadowlands' lore would be solved if rather than it being the actual afterlife, it was instead a parallel dimension that was had become parasitic as they intercepted other dimensions' souls before they reached the real afterlife and used those souls for fuel.

That is so close to how the Shadowlands actually operates (the cycle, the way the gods were literally installed, realms being created through machines, very little besides Maldraxxus feeling like actual death, Marasmius being there before any gods) that it may be the secret underlying plot.

There WAS a dark and necrotic Shadowlands, then it was forcibly ordered into the way it is when we visit. Robot gods were installed, the anima cycle was enforced, etc.

Marasmius proves there was sentient life before the Eternal Ones (ironically)

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Everytime I get a chance to look at this thread and see a few new pages, I'm hopeful for interesting conversation.

Instead it's 99% chance just being de-railed into shadowlands is actually good by the same people again and again and again.

Now that time has passed and people have forgotten the bitter taste of the story and the lackluster content and so on, people have begun to appreciate its qualities which are missing from current WoW, such as being able to pick which new faction you join and gaining new powers, the high fantasy environments, the humongous number of mounts you could collect, etc.

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i guess GW2 is then to OG battlepass holder, as it had "battlepasses" or seasonal progression tracks since at least 2014

Key difference is that in WoW, content goes away forever. If you didn't do the MoP legendary questline before WoD launched, then you can never get a cloak with a flashy visual effect other people can see (the toy from remix only shows to yourself). If you didn't do WoD then you can never get the ring. If you didn't do the mage tower during Legion then you can never get those weapons or a paladin flail that isn't fire themed. If you weren't subbed during the BFA prepatch then you can never experience the awesome War of Thorns questline. If you didn't play during BFA season 1 then you will never get that brighter colored Horde/Alliance themed armor. If you weren't playing during Shadowlands then you missed an Anduin questline. If you weren't subbed during a M+ season then you will never get that cool shadow elemental mount or Armordeon mount. And so on.

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Uh... you mean Mists of Pandaria, right?

Mists of Pandaria was the last time where I felt like there was a definitive ending with the defeat of Garrosh, all threats vanquished, and peace between the Horde and the Alliance. No cliffhanger whatsoever. Yes, the Legion was still out there and Wrathion made a one-off allusion to that, but it was really understated and didn't feel like something you were waiting to resolve. With 5.4 you felt like the story was over. From WoD onwards, however, every time you kill the final boss of the expansion, you never feel done. You beat Archimonde but then Gul'dan gets sent through the portal and Khadgar is talking about how the real battle how has only just begun. You kill Argus but then the Horde and Alliance are fighting each other in Silithus again. You beat N'zoth but then Sylvanas has fled and is working for some mysterious bad guy. You kill the bald man but then he is talking about something to come. You kill Raszageth but then you free the Incarnates and have to wait another two years to finally kill them. You're fighting the Incarnates but then the big bad quits half way through the expansion to go work for a future expansion big bad. It never ends. At least in Guild Wars 2 or FF14, you buy an expansion and then get a complete story on day 1. You buy Heart of Thorns and it ends with you killing Mordremoth and that's that. A beginning, a middle, and a cathartic ending with no cliffhanger that you have to wait years for to resolve. You buy End of Dragons and then kill the last dragon. You buy Stormblood and you kill Zenos and saved the kingdom. The new expansion's story is mediocre but at least you kill the villain and it's over and I'm not left on a cliffhanger.

[huth]

That's Life, Death, Order, and Disorder.

So maybe Nature, Death, Law, and Chaos? Idk.

Light and Shadow aren't there tho, weirdly enough

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And yes Val. The art so far looks great

It's a cutout of the full image. You can see borders of the missing two on the left and right side.