The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Our Nozdormu, sure. But the mere fact that we have both Chromie & Morchie shows that it's possible to have more than one version of a Bronze Dragon in the same place at the same time.

I could absolutely see a Nozdormu becoming Murozond in the dungeon to create that character, even if it's not our own.

I mean, Nozdormu needs to happen in this expansion, the dungeon's name is Dawn of the Infinite, so chances are that things will go their way. If not now when?

I do not know precisely what will occur, but I have a theory as to what will happen and a preference. My positive analysis suggests it's possible we'll just see Murozond delayed since the story doesn't line up with what we know, though it is possible that the story will retroactively be made a misrepresentation, since it is admittedly odd for someone to only eventually fall to a sanity-shattering revelation when they are wholly aware of and expect that revelation to come. Conversely, my normative analysis posits that it would be most interesting for Deios to both succeed and fail by creating a temporal paradox that transforms the Nozdormu of that time period into Murozond, but without retroactively altering our own Nozdormu; Nozdormu is severed from his own past, meaning that Nozdormu and Murozond exist simultaneously. This means Chromie's efforts are successful, as our own Nozdormu will no longer become Murozond, but the Infinite Dragonflight and Murozond remain a threat, along with any negative temporal side-effects of the retroactive introduction of Murozond into history.

7.3 was discussed in how a story or a place could be explored either as a patch or a whole expansion. That was apparently enough for a few posts to receive a report. If we cannot discuss this then participation in the thread will surely go down before leak season starts

It’s been said numerous times but if you want to discuss the general lore of WoW, you have a sub forum right there for you.

I'm admittedly not all too salty about it, despite having been infracted myself; I figure that the moderation reasoned it would more strongly incentivize people to err on the side of caution to infract without warning, especially with leak season and all the heightened activity that typically entails. I'm hardly going to criticize the decision, since we were all substantially deviating, and admittedly ought to have seen this coming after having received infractions prior during the digression re: cosmic horror. Since we have more content to discuss now anyway, we ought to get back on track.

Maybe next time load them into Photoshop and try to make them less obviously fake looking.
And leave characters out, they will always end up looking horrendous and out of place.

I think it was a bold effort, albeit one too immediately and readily detected. They should've generated concept art instead; that would be easier to fake.

I would hope that we would instead take the Dragonflight route and use characters that are actually related to the narrative instead of shoehorning in Alliance and Horde characters. I’d love to see Booty Bay as a launching point for both factions. Maybe even revamp it and make it the hub.

I think it would make significantly more sense for established characters to be involved in Avaloren since it's more theoretically rooted in familiar themes in spite of being itself new, though jury's out on whether or not they'll be as insufferable as they've typically been of late.

[Darkarath]

I see little conversation about 10.1.5 dungeon final cinematic. We do know that there is going to be one. So I have thought about a silly theory about it:

- First, we have to know that the Iridikron of the dungeon is our Iridikron, from our timeline. He set Aberrus distraction in motion to harness Galakrond's power in the past. Iridikron is an ally of the Infinites. The dungeon journal establishs that. This alliance, necessarily, goes back 10.000 years, actually more, we do not even know how long.

- Second, the Infinites were created by the influence of the Old Gods, so by extension, Iridikron is an ally of the Old Gods. The Old God that influenced Nozdormu into becoming Murozond and creating the Infinites, has to be N'zoth, who as we all know, saw us in the past, in the Black Empire days. So he knew back then, which was the true timeline, or at least, the number of possible true timelines were significant reduced for him, as the Void sees all possibilities.

- Third, there is no chance that N'zoth did not established communication with Iridikron in the past. If Neltharion was the Earth Warder, Iridikron was his Primal equal. N'zoth, naturally, would have tried to play with both sides. Why he would limit himself to just Neltharion? If N'zoth managed to struck a deal with Iridikron, then his alliance with the Infinites would make sense. N'zoth could have told him about the true timeline, about his imprisonment by the Aspects, that would lead to his and his kind liberation eventually, while the mortals clean Azeroth of potential threats in the future. He could have told him that his sister Raszageth would need to be sacrificed, but that just some time later he would be able to raise her again with decay. Do you realise that in Vault of the Incarnates' final cinematic, while Fyrakk and Vyranoth immediately focus on their sister death, Iridikron does not react at all to it? He just says that all the traitors of Dragonkind should die. Maybe he was not surprised at all by her death because he already knew.

- The deal was struck. The Infinites, presumably N'zoth minions, would help Iridikron to harness the power of Decay from Galakrond, while he ensures that Nozdormu is created. So in the final cinematic, while we might deal with Deios, Iridikron would appear to finish the process, because as we all know, we are no match for him.

Where this events would lead us? I believe that Iridikron would still chase the other forces that he wants to harness, while creating an enormous army of Decay (the New Plague), so he would not appear much more in DF, as the other Incarnates plus Murozond and the Infinites are more than enough distraction for his plans. Vyranoth seems smart enough, so he would probably have a plan of her own, while Fyrakk is without a doubt the main threat of this expansion, and probably the last boss of 10.2 raid.

What about Murozond? If he is created, he would be in league with N'zoth, whose essence is presumably in the Blade of the Dark Empire with which Wrathion stabbed N'zoth, after which it mysteriously dissapeared. Murozond now knows the location of this blade, and he or one of his agents will stab Alexstrasza with it!!, so N'zoth will control her body, and there you have the treason to Tyr that we learnt about in last week's questline.

[huth]

I do not know precisely what will occur, but I have a theory as to what will happen and a preference. My positive analysis suggests it's possible we'll just see Murozond delayed since the story doesn't line up with what we know, though it is possible that the story will retroactively be made a misrepresentation, since it is admittedly odd for someone to only eventually fall to a sanity-shattering revelation when they are wholly aware of and expect that revelation to come. Conversely, my normative analysis posits that it would be most interesting for Deios to both succeed and fail by creating a temporal paradox that transforms the Nozdormu of that time period into Murozond, but without retroactively altering our own Nozdormu; Nozdormu is severed from his own past, meaning that Nozdormu and Murozond exist simultaneously. This means Chromie's efforts are successful, as our own Nozdormu will no longer become Murozond, but the Infinite Dragonflight and Murozond remain a threat, along with any negative temporal side-effects of the retroactive introduction of Murozond into history.

That would nicely explain why Murozond is stuck in End Time as well as he'd then be divorced from Nozdormu's aspect powers and would give Blizzard the narrative freedom to have him survive his own pre-ordained death (i.e. it did happen, but it didn't happen to him the way he thought).

Though there is the issue that it doesn't quite match with his given reasons for falling to begin with.

I'm admittedly not all too salty about it, despite having been infracted myself; I figure that the moderation reasoned it would more strongly incentivize people to err on the side of caution to infract without warning, especially with leak season and all the heightened activity that typically entails. I'm hardly going to criticize the decision, since we were all substantially deviating, and admittedly ought to have seen this coming after having received infractions prior during the digression re: cosmic horror. Since we have more content to discuss now anyway, we ought to get back on track.

I dunno, i get the feeling it's mostly incentivising certain people to report anything they don't want talked about as spam.

These threads have historically always been swerving wildly, suddenly penalising people for it make little sense. And past lore and the nature of the various forces is relevant to the topic, so i'm not convinced those infractions are actually justified to begin with. You can't speculate about what may come without considering what has been.

[Marlamin]

And past lore and the nature of the various forces is relevant to the topic,-snip-. You can't speculate about what may come without considering what has been.

While it might be relevant, I think the back-and-forth discussing/defending interpretations of past lore is the thing that's trying to be prevented, as per the active thread warnings in the OP, which I think that's perfectly fair. Mention it in any future speculation to ones hearts desire, but don't go back and forth about it or make it the focus.

- - - Updated - - -

Low effort AI images.

Maybe next time load them into Photoshop and try to make them less obviously fake looking.
And leave characters out, they will always end up looking horrendous and out of place.

This leak season is going to be good in the worst way.

Pro-tip for those doing these kind of fakes, don't make the fake/badly generated part the focus of it but add other elements as well. You could for example slap a UI with some interesting tidbits on there to make it seem a bit more believable. Do beware of the minimap though, that has caused a few fake leaks in the past to betray themselves.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

That would nicely explain why Murozond is stuck in End Time as well as he'd then be divorced from Nozdormu's aspect powers and would give Blizzard the narrative freedom to have him survive his own pre-ordained death (i.e. it did happen, but it didn't happen to him the way he thought).

Though there is the issue that it doesn't quite match with his given reasons for falling to begin with.

I personally hold it as being the opposite: the original Murozond, the inevitable transformation of Nozdormu, would have been slain in End Time, though the events of Dawn of the Infinite would overwrite the timestrand, as Nozdormu never becomes Murozond at all. Instead, a new Murozond emerges, distinct from the one we fought in End Time, which was Nozdormu driven mad by a revelation re: the nature of time or the Titans' plans for him.

[huth]

I personally hold it as being the opposite: the original Murozond, the inevitable transformation of Nozdormu, would have been slain in End Time, though the events of Dawn of the Infinite would overwrite the timestrand, as Nozdormu never becomes Murozond at all. Instead, a new Murozond emerges, distinct from the one we fought in End Time, which was Nozdormu driven mad by a revelation re: the nature of time or the Titans' plans for him.

That would give the issue of the original Murozond still having to come from somewhere, though.

And we don't actually know what exactly drove Murozond to his actions. Just that it was supposedly worse than the world being destroyed.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Mention it in any future speculation to ones hearts desire, but don't go back and forth about it or make it the focus.

That was the nature of my mistake, at least. I have a habit of pursuing a line of inquiry or discussion beyond sensible boundaries, so it's best to be reminded.

Pro-tip for those doing these kind of fakes, don't make the fake part the focus of it but add other elements as well. You could for example slap a UI with some interesting tidbits on there to make it seem a bit more believable. Do beware of the minimap though, that has caused a few fake leaks in the past to betray themselves.

I recall a fake UI screenshot alone getting everybody talking about a potential world revamp before Shadowlands was revealed, with only a fairly-accessible modified asset being employed. I definitely think that trying to focus on ML-generated screenshots was a fairly bad idea, since they'd never look accurate enough; it's too easy to tell intuitively. Since we've had key and concept art leaked before, those would be far easier to make appear credible.

That would give the issue of the original Murozond still having to come from somewhere, though.

My assumption on that front is just that wave function collapse takes the End Time Murozond, either due to the events in Dawn of the Infinite or something that happens in Cataclysm; he would have theoretically happened on a parachronological level, thus enabling us to fight and defeat him when he was still a possibility, but he is later overwritten parachronologically by Dawn of the Infinite, retroactively rendering him no longer the future of our Nozdormu, but merely an incarnation in what is now an alternate universe.

[Marlamin]

I recall a fake UI screenshot alone getting everybody talking about a potential world revamp before Shadowlands was revealed, with only a fairly-accessible modified asset being employed. I definitely think that trying to focus on ML-generated screenshots was a fairly bad idea, since they'd never look accurate enough; it's too easy to tell intuitively. Since we've had key and concept art leaked before, those would be far easier to make appear credible.

Yup, I believe there was one in a garrison-like "revamped" inn but the minimap wasn't lining up with the model.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

--- snip ---

POSTCRIPT 2: Do we know if 10.1.5 megadungeon has a cinematic at the end? I guess that Nozdormu will turn into Murozond if that is the case.

Considering you cannot test the ending of the megadungeon, it is very likely that due to the trigger being in the dungeon that they just don't want anyone to activate something.

Most likly that being what is theorized to occur.

[Chickat]

Pretty sure people got infracted for derailing the thread yet again.



And here we go.

Low effort AI images.

Maybe next time load them into Photoshop and try to make them less obviously fake looking.
And leave characters out, they will always end up looking horrendous and out of place.

Probably ai but they do look gorgeous. Down pieces of art even if fake.

[huth]

Probably ai but they do look gorgeous. Down pieces of art even if fake.

They don't really fit into WoW, though. They'd stand out like sore thumbs.

[Chickat]

They don't really fit into WoW, though. They'd stand out like sore thumbs.

Sure, not saying they do. Still gorgeous art though. And I know its fake, but theres always that .1% chance its real and they changed art direction to make dev cheaper or something. Either way its still nice looking art. I can appreciate its beauty while recognizing its probably fake.

[Reive]

I hope they haven't lost too many people with the rto. the lack of communication (and tuning) of these past few weeks is kinda worrying. I fear the game might end up in maint mode before the next expansion even comes out.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I hope they haven't lost too many people with the rto. the lack of communication (and tuning) of these past few weeks is kinda worrying. I fear the game might end up in maint mode before the next expansion even comes out.

Its not going to go in maintenance mode...

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I hope they haven't lost too many people with the rto. the lack of communication (and tuning) of these past few weeks is kinda worrying. I fear the game might end up in maint mode before the next expansion even comes out.

Not even a remote chance of this coming true. You can rest easy.

[Kokolums]

Not even a remote chance of this coming true. You can rest easy.

i havent seen that sort of confidence since people were saying classic servers would never happen and they were posting the "wall of no".

[KOUNTERPARTS]

i havent seen that sort of confidence since people were saying classic servers would never happen and they were posting the "wall of no".

And this is not even remotely the same thing, but I'm glad to see you agree, even without the same amount of confidence.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Comparing this to Classic servers is silly. There may be a day when WoW is "numbered" but it certainly isn't cause dumb fear of RTO screwing them over. But thats assuming what I said comes true anyways. I won't discount it(Wow never being numbered that is).


But thats really off topic and such.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Its not going to go in maintenance mode...

The game already is in maintenance mode, the last few expansions have just been trying to obfuscate it to the wider audience as best as possible.

If you look at the content output it is the same content output every expansion without change and it is definitely due to a well defined budget that is meant to penny pinch super hard while making less and less content for the consumer while extracting more profits.

I hope they haven't lost too many people with the rto. the lack of communication (and tuning) of these past few weeks is kinda worrying. I fear the game might end up in maint mode before the next expansion even comes out.

I mean this is just normal Blizzard practice, they do not communicate and in many ways this was okay because the audience who got upset about this kept being spammed about how there were standards in place of 3 Major Patches. Obviously now there isn't a standard in place and we're just waiting for the 2024 Roadmap reveal after 10.2 launches.

We still got another PTR cycle to go through before we get 10.2 information. This is just going to be a very dry period overall.


Important to note that the Team has seemingly not crashed and burned yet even with the forced RTO and again maybe the 2024 Roadmap reveals that the Forced RTO was a complete disaster of a decision which led to complete confidence in the product being gone as they go for a Season 4 scenario with a long period of nothing except 11.0 hype for 2024 but that remains to be seen, however.

Again, I understand the anxiety but fundamentally this is going to be a weird period where nothing is happening until 10.1.7 PTR is over.

[Makabreska]

The game already is in maintenance mode, the last few expansions have just been trying to obfuscate it to the wider audience as best as possible.

If you look at the content output it is the same content output every expansion without change and it is definitely due to a well defined budget that is meant to penny pinch super hard while making less and less content for the consumer while extracting more profits.



I mean this is just normal Blizzard practice, they do not communicate and in many ways this was okay because the audience who got upset about this kept spamming about how there were standards in place of 3 Major Patches. Obviously now there isn't a standard in place and we're just waiting for the 2024 Roadmap reveal after 10.2 launches.

We still got another PTR cycle to go through before we get 10.2 information. This is just going to be a very dry period overall.

WoW is in maintenance mode, Dragnoflight content output is the same as in SL.

Ok guys, we are reaching new hights of shitposting.