The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Xilurm]

What are you even on about?

Bring up times in the game which makes you and others think that Turalyon will end up evil. Because this is what both you and Bauman keep talking about. Because I don't get it. You guys say he's a zealot fanatic but never provide context or situations where that's the case?

[Eldryth]

Thats a weird suggestion. Because Its not even headcanon and no one is saying its canon either, but at the same time its also impossible to just dismiss, simply because you dont like it. Its been a theory ever since like you said, but a plausible one nontheless.

The topic, seems to be a trigger for some it seems.

Of course. It's always a disaster when the writers decide to complete change a character's personality to use them as a villain, and after all the past cases of that, it's natural for everyone to strongly oppose doing it again. Just like it made absolutely no sense for Kael'thas to turn against everything he cared about to join the Legion, and Sylvanas's constantly changing personality and motivation was awful, it'd be nearly impossible to reconcile the villainous Turalyon you're suggesting with the current reality of his character- a guy who follows the Light but is reasonable about it and has always put his family and the world first. You want him to be an entirely different character in all but name. Far better to use an entirely new character or Yrel (kind of another character derailment, but the damage is already done with her unless they decide to retroactively fix her like they did with Illidan in Legion).

[Xilurm]

Of course. It's always a disaster when the writers decide to complete change a character's personality to use them as a villain, and after all the past cases of that, it's natural for everyone to strongly oppose doing it again. Just like it made absolutely no sense for Kael'thas to turn against everything he cared about to join the Legion, and Sylvanas's constantly changing personality and motivation was awful, it'd be nearly impossible to reconcile the villainous Turalyon you're suggesting with the current reality of his character- a guy who follows the Light but is reasonable about it and has always put his family and the world first. You want him to be an entirely different character in all but name. Far better to use an entirely new character or Yrel (kind of another character derailment, but the damage is already done with her unless they decide to retroactively fix her like they did with Illidan in Legion).

At least with Yrel it's more believable because there's a 30 year gap where we are told what she did and who she became. With Turalyon there was 1000 year gap and yet we weren't told he changed. He's just the same old hero he always was. To change him now after staying the same for 1000 years would be beyond absurd.

[Makabreska]

It seems more likely we are dealing with " I dont like this approach, because I like Tularyon" type of thing, which I am seeing every single time its brought up.

No. It's "I don't like this approach, because Bauman tries to force it on every step in a batshit crazy way". Have you seen his reasoning? He keeps claiming, that Turalyon is a problematic, toxic, white male, dangerous character who keeps his queer wife in an unhappy relationship. And all of this, because dude dared to be wary of inviting Dracthyr to SW at the start of Dragonflight.

[Ksgrip]

Hmm thats false, many do actually. Seen people mentioning this many times.

Wether you like it or not.

It’s a head canon born of pure misunderstanding of a character so yes not only people don’t like it and it should be as well fought. If you tell me Red is Blue when it is Red, people should fight that lie and correct it

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Don't forget about the current Lord Commander of the Alliance Forces.

Head canon alert. Baumas weird fixation striking yet again. When will you learn old man

[Makorus]

At least with Yrel it's more believable because there's a 30 year gap where we are told what she did and who she became. With Turalyon there was 1000 year gap and yet we weren't told he changed. He's just the same old hero he always was. To change him now after staying the same for 1000 years would be beyond absurd.

And while it makes sense for people to suggest something like that for Alleria, because the Void has been shown to be outright corrupting, and Alleria literally has an entire Dark Naaru in her, the Light has never been shown to outright corrupt people so it makes very little sense to suddenly think that Turalyon is gonna stage a coup lmao.

[Ksgrip]

What are you even on about?

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It seems more likely we are dealing with " I dont like this approach, because I like Tularyon" type of thing, which I am seeing every single time its brought up.

They asked for prove for an unsubstantiated claim yet you provide non and respond with a Fallacy. Of course people get angry because it’s a freaking false narrative born out of click bait YouTube videos.

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And while it makes sense for people to suggest something like that for Alleria, because the Void has been shown to be outright corrupting, and Alleria literally has an entire Dark Naaru in her, the Light has never been shown to outright corrupt people so it makes very little sense to suddenly think that Turalyon is gonna stage a coup lmao.

It all comes down to people not trusting the writers to actually have good character development. We are told Alleria is an Mac in the following narrative arcs so people cannot comprehend any other reality than the boring ass if she is an MC that means she will always be in the right side of the story. So years of build up to her corruption are ignored in favour of claiming Turalyon is going to become a fascist when the guy has been an immovable rock in that regard lol. It’s not even about the characters or the motivations. Some people just don’t give a fuck about that. They see the story in a meta context and make weird claims about it to suit their personal narrative.

Bauma is a flying example of that. Their personal issues are what colour their understanding of the story to the point it is twisted beyond recognition. People assume Alleria cannot be corrupted even we have years of material supporting it because she is an MC therefore she must be good. So any potential for her character is squandered right out of the get go because nothing beyond she has to resist evil to save the world is not even considered.

I hope the writers are better than this because you all moaned about Shadowlands crap story but this would be on that level

[Varodoc]

The idea (I refuse categorically to call this drivel a "theory") that Turalyon will become a villain has nothing to do with Turalyon, and everything to do with the Siege of Orgrimmar. After SoO, a few Horde players are certain that the next expansion will feature a "Siege of Stormwind".

What they do not understand, is that the story is not mirrored, and that they are NOT owed ANYTHING.

Turalyon is just the current ruler of Stormwind, so naturally he is the current "final boss" candidate for this delusional/coping Siege of Stormwind fan-fiction.

Back in BfA, these same people were certain that Anduin, the then-ruler of Stormwind, the "boy-king who served at the master's table and offered three lies", would become Void-corrupted/enslaved by Sylvanas and be the final boss of a "Death-corrupted Stormwind".

Seriously, does everyone here have short memory? We're going to pretend like this image wasn't everywhere exactly 5 years ago?




The desire from a subset of Horde players to raid Stormwind, as some sort of twisted "reparation" for SoO, has been going on for over 10 years and is at the root of the idea to turn Turalyon into a villain. The tune has simply switched from a Death-corrupted Stormwind with Death Anduin as the final boss (who ironically happened in SL, but obviously not in Stormwind) to a Light-influenced Turalyon in a Light-enthralled Stormwind.

There's nothing more to it.

[Makorus]

The idea (I refuse categorically to call this drivel a "theory") that Turalyon will become a villain has nothing to do with Turalyon, and everything to do with the Siege of Orgrimmar. After SoO, a few Horde players are certain that the next expansion will feature a "Siege of Stormwind".

What they do not understand, is that the story is not mirrored, and that they are NOT owed ANYTHING.

Turalyon is just the current ruler of Stormwind, so naturally he is the current "final boss" candidate for this delusional/coping Siege of Stormwind fan-fiction.

Back in BfA, these same people were certain that Anduin, the then-ruler of Stormwind, the "boy-king who served at the master's table and offered three lies", would become Void-corrupted/enslaved by Sylvanas and be the final boss of a "Death-corrupted Stormwind".

Seriously, does everyone here have short memory? We're going to pretend like this image wasn't everywhere exactly 5 years ago?




The desire from a subset of Horde players to raid Stormwind, as some sort of twisted "reparation" for SoO, has been going on for over 10 years and is at the root of the idea to turn Turalyon into a villain. The tune has simply switched from a Death-corrupted Stormwind with Death Anduin as the final boss (who ironically happened in SL, but obviously not in Stormwind) to a Light-influenced Turalyon in a Light-enthralled Stormwind.

There's nothing more to it.

What? No one thought that Anduin would get corrupted. That image was clearly fake anyway, but people thought Sylvanas would be able to conquer Stormwind.

[Varodoc]

but people thought Sylvanas would be able to conquer Stormwind.

A delusion and nothing more. What story have you people been following?

BfA literally opens up with Sylvanas and Saurfang agreeing that Stormwind can never be conquered.

You are NEVER going to raid Stormwind. In fact, it's far more likely that you'll raid Orgrimmar for a second time.

[Makorus]

A delusion and nothing more. What story have you people been following?

BfA literally opens up with Sylvanas and Saurfang agreeing that Stormwind can never be conquered.

You are NEVER going to raid Stormwind. In fact, it's far more likely that you'll raid Orgrimmar for a second time.

Right. I am not here to debate you or a fake leak. However, back then, the common consensus was that the leak implied that Sylvanas took over Stormwind, as indicated by the Forsaken ships, not that Anduin got corrupted, which I have never heard before.

[Hitei]

A delusion and nothing more. What story have you people been following?

BfA literally opens up with Sylvanas and Saurfang agreeing that Stormwind can never be conquered.

That is not what they said at all. They agreed it was an impossible first target.

[Sondrelk]

Right. I am not here to debate you or a fake leak. However, back then, the common consensus was that the leak implied that Sylvanas took over Stormwind, as indicated by the Forsaken ships, not that Anduin got corrupted, which I have never heard before.

Yeah, I was around for most of that debate as well, and I never remember hearing anyone think that Anduin was actually a traitor or that he would be turned to the void or death willingly. Everyone was of the opinion that the endgame in that situation would be Sylvanas, and if there was a curveball Alliance leader it would be a dead one like Varian ressurected by Sylvanas.

Shame we didnt get it though. A raid set in Stormwind would have been a fantastic idea. You could have several cool boss locations like a naval fight in the docks, a ressurected hero like Arthas or Uther in the Stormwind graveyard. We could see the Stormwind vaults finally, or even just weird stuff like a Hogger raid boss in the Stormwind Stockade.

[Cheezits]

Looks like the launch MSQ is cut a bit shorter than DF, but there aren't any unlockable chapters except for the post-raid quest.

How are we feeling about that? I don't think any MSQ has really been good besides Mists and Suramar so I am happy about it. Keep things moving.

[milkmustache]

Looks like the launch MSQ is cut a bit shorter than DF, but there aren't any unlockable chapters except for the post-raid quest.

How are we feeling about that? I don't think any MSQ has really been good besides Mists and Suramar so I am happy about it. Keep things moving.

I guess it just depends on the cadence and the content of the following patches. It'll be a bit disappointing if .5 patches only have a 7 quest 30 min questline, but there seems to be a lot to do regardless.

I guess content of the MSQ matters too. Dragonflight's was forgettable to the point where I literally forget.

[micwini]

Looks like the launch MSQ is cut a bit shorter than DF, but there aren't any unlockable chapters except for the post-raid quest.

How are we feeling about that? I don't think any MSQ has really been good besides Mists and Suramar so I am happy about it. Keep things moving.

Less content for the same price, wheee

[Cheezits]

Less content for the same price, wheee

If I remember right, the worst two expansions (BFA, SL) had the most quests due to the continent split and covenant splits respectively.

Content doesn't matter if nobody likes it. Which is the infamous debate on the huge number of BFA systems at launch.

[Makorus]

Looks like the launch MSQ is cut a bit shorter than DF, but there aren't any unlockable chapters except for the post-raid quest.

How are we feeling about that? I don't think any MSQ has really been good besides Mists and Suramar so I am happy about it. Keep things moving.

Important thing to note is that while there are less MSQ, the amount of side quests is way higher as well.



I personally don't see the issue, because there have been a lot of "MSQ" in past expansions that felt incredibly filler-y and irrelevant to the main story of the expansion (Thaldraszus entirely, really, Bradensbrook in Valsharah, the Pit Fighting/Makura section in Aszuna, majority of the quests in Zandalar are kind of irrelevant to the main story) so as long as the actual main story is more focused, it's fine.

Blizzard usually does better with sidestory stuff anyway.

[Bwgmon]

That is not what they said at all. They agreed it was an impossible first target.

It does remind me of the time Zul casually set half of the city on fire while the Horde was sneaking around it though.

[Varodoc]

It does remind me of the time Zul casually set half of the city on fire while the Horde was sneaking around it though.

Wrong, this never happened. Zul only set fire to a few buildings in the harbor.

Stormwind is the most fortified and strongest city on Azeroth. Militarily, there's not one force in the world that could take it. That is why Sylvanas and Saurfang agreed that their only chance was to divide Stormwind from its allies.