The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Reive]

Looks like the launch MSQ is cut a bit shorter than DF, but there aren't any unlockable chapters except for the post-raid quest.

How are we feeling about that? I don't think any MSQ has really been good besides Mists and Suramar so I am happy about it. Keep things moving.

don't care, the story in wow is not that relevant. also, wow was better when there was no main campaign

[KOUNTERPARTS]

As much as I like the "Light is actually evil!" trope, making Turalyon evil just for the sake of it is incredibly lame.

Any good reason can make it a good story-- Turalyon becoming a tyrannical warlord of the Holy Light. At this juncture with how the game's story has progressed since BfA... I don't even think I care anymore about Turalyon.

[micwini]

If I remember right, the worst two expansions (BFA, SL) had the most quests due to the continent split and covenant splits respectively.

Content doesn't matter if nobody likes it. Which is the infamous debate on the huge number of BFA systems at launch.

Putting BFA in the same box as SL is rediculous. BFA was not great, but OK. After they fixed the issues with azerite gear, everything was fine. 8.2 is still the most recent best patch.

[Joshuaj]

Hmm thats false, many do actually. Seen people mentioning this many times.

Wether you like it or not.

Who's mentioning this? Bellular? Accolonn? Pyromancer? They're all frauds ya know...

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Putting BFA in the same box as SL is rediculous. BFA was not great, but OK. After they fixed the issues with azerite gear, everything was fine. 8.2 is still the most recent best patch.

BFA was one of the worst expansions I ever played

[Varodoc]

Who's mentioning this? Bellular? Accolonn? Pyromancer? They're all frauds ya know...

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BFA was one of the worst expansions I ever played

Strange, considering how the ending was straight up taken from DBZ.

I thought you of all people would have loved BfA.

[Joshuaj]

Strange, considering how the ending was straight up taken from DBZ.

I thought you of all people would have loved BfA.

Don't assume. It was 3 expansion plots forced into 1, poorly developed mess. It also had a downgraded version of the Artifact system, even WORSE Mythic+ BS, the faction war and warfronts were barely expanded on, and the worst part of it all? Corrupted gear...

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Also, why is your WoW character a lvl 11 Human, Varo? Surely that's an alt, right?

[Makabreska]

Putting BFA in the same box as SL is rediculous. BFA was not great, but OK. After they fixed the issues with azerite gear, everything was fine. 8.2 is still the most recent best patch.

Ohohohoho people were speaking VERY differently about that period, with endless grind of Azerite gear, Essences and Benthic gear with sockets. Also I saw so many complaints on how crappy Nazjatar looked. Bfa as a whole was ridiculously panned, and still is to this day.

But I don't care, was my fav expansion anyway.

[Varodoc]

Don't assume. It was 3 expansion plots forced into 1, poorly developed mess. It also had a downgraded version of the Artifact system, even WORSE Mythic+ BS, the faction war and warfronts were barely expanded on, and the worst part of it all? Corrupted gear...

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Also, why is your WoW character a lvl 11 Human, Varo? Surely that's an alt, right?

I'm European, but we can't post on the US forums, so we have to make alts on trial accounts.

And I don't know if you are aware of this, but Sl was such a dumpster-fire that they straight up mentioned it at the Share-holders' meeting that it was a disaster.

But if you were to ask Me if I wanted Shadowlands to be retconned, I'd tell you: No. Sylvanas had to go.

Enjoy taking quests from Queen Calia.

[Dracullus]

Ohohohoho people were speaking VERY differently about that period, with endless grind of Azerite gear, Essences and Benthic gear with sockets. Also I saw so many complaints on how crappy Nazjatar looked. Bfa as a whole was ridiculously panned, and still is to this day.

But I don't care, was my fav expansion anyway.

It begins. 4 years passed and BfA is good now. Like clockwork.

[Lady Atia]

Putting BFA in the same box as SL is rediculous. BFA was not great, but OK. After they fixed the issues with azerite gear, everything was fine. 8.2 is still the most recent best patch.

Lol no. BfA is the worst expansion, even WoD was better than that shit. Shadowlands was actually great after they fixed the initial covenant bullshit. Also the content draught didn't help either - if we had shorter patches it would have been on par with Legion or MoP.

[Cheezits]

It begins. 4 years passed and BfA is good now. Like clockwork.

I also liked the expansion but I recognize that the mass majority of players hated it, and the community was the worst it's ever been (SL had a huge dropoff but people just didn't play vs playing while being outraged all the time).

Also some devs outrighted hated the playerbase on social media. It wasn't a good time. Social media of that era was a mess that trickled into WoW as well.

[Joshuaj]

I'm European, but we can't post on the US forums, so we have to make alts on trial accounts.

And I don't know if you are aware of this, but Sl was such a dumpster-fire that they straight up mentioned it at the Share-holders' meeting that it was a disaster.

But if you were to ask Me if I wanted Shadowlands to be retconned, I'd tell you: No. Sylvanas had to go.

Enjoy taking quests from Queen Calia.

Ah. Also, I'm a Human Ret Pally. The Horde can keep her. Also, they mentioned that BFA and WoD were disasters as well, openly so loool

SL wasn't much different in comparison

[Dracullus]

I also liked the expansion but I recognize that the mass majority of players hated it, and the community was the worst it's ever been (SL had a huge dropoff but people just didn't play vs playing while being outraged all the time).

I tell you a secret. If you like WoW, there is pretty good chance you will enjoy every single expansion despite its flaws.

Btw, subscriber graph from last years show that low point of BfA was lower than low point of SL. Call it even, cause part of SL subs was that m-a-s-s-i-v-e part community subing just for late TBC. So it's not that black and white.

[Khaza-R]

It begins. 4 years passed and BfA is good now. Like clockwork.

Tbf, A lot of people griped on BfA but then SL was even worse in many aspects so people softened on the expansion. It didn't necessarily even take 4 years.

Personally, I find BfA more like Cataclysm. Very polarizing. With parts of it I really loved and others I really hated.

Btw, subscriber graph from last years show that low point of BfA was lower than low point of SL. Call it even, cause part of SL subs was that m-a-s-s-i-v-e part community subing just for late TBC. So it's not that black and white.

Yeah but BfA didn't have Classic numbers mixed in at that point so no, they aren't comparible dips.

[Cheezits]

I tell you a secret. If you like WoW, there is pretty good chance you will enjoy every single expansion despite its flaws.

Btw, subscriber graph from last years show that low point of BfA was lower than low point of SL. Call it even, cause part of SL subs was that m-a-s-s-i-v-e part community subing just for late TBC. So it's not that black and white.

That checks out as SL had that "hail mary" second half from the devs as well. The Helfs really saved things (to the point they probably inspired Midnight)

[micwini]

It begins. 4 years passed and BfA is good now. Like clockwork.

I found BFA to be good even while current. Most complaints were fixed early and the other stuff was mostly issues outside of the game/nitpicking. And.... the main storyline was meh.
BFA was greatly hated by a vocal minority(forums, reddit, twotter) for having the same systems as the prior expansion which everyone praised for some reason. Replace legionaries with azerite armor and its basically the exact same expansion.

The opposite is true for DF: Praise among this same vocal minority, but the silent majority hasnt played much. There is a reason why retention is higher: The overall player count is lower.
Now that DF is almost over: BFA, for all its faults, was better than DF.

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Tbf, A lot of people griped on BfA but then SL was even worse in many aspects so people softened on the expansion. It didn't necessarily even take 4 years.

Personally, I find BfA more like Cataclysm. Very polarizing. With parts of it I really loved and others I really hated.



Yeah but BfA didn't have Classic numbers mixed in at that point so no, they aren't comparible dips.

Yep, BFA had a lower dip, but this was before classic. SL was only slightly above while having classic combined in those numbers as well. It is obvious that for the main game SL is by far the lowest point in the game ever. And that with a pandamic raging that kept people homebound, looking for something to do.
I think SL was worse than WoD. WoD didnt have enough content, but what it had was mostly good.

[Cheezits]

While it's clear that SL was bad enough for the devs to formally admit so in a press conference, I think it's interesting that both DF and TWW are rather small expansions. Could just because of Microsoft leverage but you'd think if the game was really in such a bad state (and OW2 and Diablo 4 are in worse states) there would be a bigger expansion NOW, and not later.

I do think TWS was announced because TWW was not "good enough" on its own, but still, it's small.

[Makabreska]

I found BFA to be good even while current. Most complaints were fixed early and the other stuff was mostly issues outside of the game/nitpicking. And.... the main storyline was meh.
BFA was greatly hated by a vocal minority(forums, reddit, twotter) for having the same systems as the prior expansion which everyone praised for some reason. Replace legionaries with azerite armor and its basically the exact same expansion.

This is really not true. People were complaining, because BfA was an absolute culmination of borrowed powers grind:
- Azerite gear, usually had to grind different set for each spec
- Essences - some of most popular Essences had ridiculous grind requirements (Blood of the Enemy rank 3 - 40k honor farmed), and they were NOT account shared.
- 8.2 Benthic gear for sockets, a noticeable power increase
- 8.3 Corruption gear - lots of grinding for highest rank, combined with legendary cloak lvl up

It was not vocal minority that complained about all of this. Each week I saw posts on Reddit begging Blizz to make Essences account-wide. Only patch 8.3 introduced a vendor that sold them, along with Corrupted gear. But of course, you had to grind the unified currency. Also, vendor offer was on a three weeks rotation.

BfA was definitely THE MOST grindy expansion in terms of player power. It is not a coincidence that SL greatly reduced the grind.

[Dracullus]

I think it's interesting that both DF and TWW are rather small expansions.

*looking at Dragon Isles content, 2 big patch zones in single expansion and DFs 9 patches* I wonder how many years it will take for you guys to accept that raids are not only thing to measure expansion size. And Blizzard prefer to make more world content instead of tier 0 raid.

And I won't argue about it for 41235 time, I accepted you just not ready yet.

BfA was definitely THE MOST grindy expansion in terms of player power.

I think you forgot about some green boy. Especially first half.

[Makorus]

This is really not true. People were complaining, because BfA was an absolute culmination of borrowed powers grind:
- Azerite gear, usually had to grind different set for each spec
- Essences - some of most popular Essences had ridiculous grind requirements (Blood of the Enemy rank 3 - 40k honor farmed), and they were NOT account shared.
- 8.2 Benthic gear for sockets, a noticeable power increase
- 8.3 Corruption gear - lots of grinding for highest rank, combined with legendary cloak lvl up

It was not vocal minority that complained about all of this. Each week I saw posts on Reddit begging Blizz to make Essences account-wide. Only patch 8.3 introduced a vendor that sold them, along with Corrupted gear. But of course, you had to grind the unified currency. Also, vendor offer was on a three weeks rotation.

BfA was definitely THE MOST grindy expansion in terms of player power. It is not a coincidence that SL greatly reduced the grind.

It's not even that you had to grind a different set for each spec, if you got a piece from Normal, and then Heroic, you might not have been able to unlock all the Azerite powers.

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*looking at Dragon Isles content, 2 big patch zones in single expansion and DFs 9 patches* I wonder how many years it will take for you guys to accept that raids are not only thing to measure expansion size. And Blizzard prefer to make more world content instead of tier 0 raid.

And I won't argue about it for 41235 time, I accepted you just not ready yet.

Raids (and to a lesser extent of M+ even though lately dungeon design has been a bit shit) is the only thing Blizzard truly excels at, and is the only thing no other MMO offers, really.

Yeah, DF had loads of world content, but how much of it was actually... fun? How much of it would you do if there wasn't a reward tied behind it? Did anyone actually enjoy Dragonbane Keep after the third time? Did anyone actually enjoy Superbloom?

DF World Events were quantity over quality, and while I haven't looked extensively at the TWW, they do seem better.