The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[micwini]

Today I learned people complainted about BfA systems were vocal minority, apparently people were loving it and evil elitists took it from us.

Never change mmochamps.

"I don't agree, so im just strawmanning."
Never change mmochamps

[Joshuaj]

Anyone get the new Chronicle early or? I wanna see some pics

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I think I just good morning sickness. AP was always the issue, as far back as Legion were you couldn't play more than one spec at the start (especially if you got the wrong legendary on top), and I'm saying this as a person who usually prefers to play one spec per character anyways. Essences were also the biggest bullshit ever, on par with their conduit cousins from Shadowlands. On top of that, all of the shit you had to farm in order to play a patch were gone as soon as the next Expansion hit .... if they had build on artifacts in Legion the whole system could have worked, but making everything irrelevant after an expansion is literally the antithesis to WoW. What made this game big is that whatever you invested stayed for your character for ever, which only got solidified when WotLK prepatch hit thanks to achievements, and even more so with transmog and other collections.

Even corruptions were only cool as long as there was no vendor (yes, hang me) since as soon as you could choose which corruptions to use you were stuck with your "bis" corruptions, so it was all just a grind with an illusion of choice anyways. Twillight Dev was fun as a tank though as long as you didn't had to get versa ones because your key level got over 21.

As someone who only plays Ret Paladin, I'm so glad I invested in just that 1 spec.

[Alanar]

Today I learned people complainted about BfA systems were vocal minority, apparently people were loving it and evil elitists took it from us.

Never change mmochamps.

Well Azerite armor sucked ass dude.

[Dracullus]

Don’t you literally defend every expansion whilst it’s current and then when that expansion is in the previous cycle and something else is current you move onto criticising it?

You were very vocal for your defence of Legion, BfA and SL whilst they were current content.

Never cross you mind that AP could be no problem for me (cause as you I don't min-max), but I can acknowledge it became so hated to the point Ion got loud applause when they announce it's going away in SL?

[Enrif]

Anyone can acknowledge the issues with systems like AP and the systems of the last 3 expansions prior to DF. And while they were issues, they mostly affected the "1%" players, or those that think they are. Which trickled down to a lot of others players, and "made" them their problems, even though they would be mostly fine otherwise.

I play casually most of the time, and hadn't any personal problems with the system of the past expansions. And most people probably had some grievances here and there, but didn't mind them most of the time. Like, no one holds a gun to your head an demands you to run thorgasts a dozen times, do a lot of M+, PVP on the side just to "keep up" with a perceived need that doesn't exist.

And reading stuff like "needing legendary, or kick"? WTF is wrong with people like that. I play for fun and enjoyment, not for your crazy demands.

[Makorus]

Sorry, but a system where I do way, way, way less DPS than another player because I got a shitty drop is just terrible game design, not to mention that some Legendaries would make the spec more enjoyable gameplay-wise while other Legendaries barely worked (Old Sephuz).

It's indefendable lmao.

[Santandame]

Sorry, but a system where I do way, way, way less DPS than another player because I got a shitty drop is just terrible game design, not to mention that some Legendaries would make the spec more enjoyable gameplay-wise while other Legendaries barely worked (Old Sephuz).

It's indefendable lmao.

So you’ve gone from that legendaries would hold your guild/group back from progressing if you didn’t have the optimal one (it wouldn’t), to saying it’s terrible game design that another player would do more DPS than you because they got a better drop than your “shitty” drop…?

Isn’t that literally how the entire game and gearing system has always and entirely worked? Whether that be a weapon drop, or a trinket, or tier sets? That’s literally the design of the game and it’s not confined to the Legion legendaries. If another fire mage gets the BiS trinket/weapon or the 2 set/4 set tier bonus before you do, guess what - they’re going to do more damage than you (if you’re both of a same skill level).

The whole Legion legendary complaints was always overblown. It’s exactly the same as the WoW gearing treadmill has ever been.

I for one loved the feeling of an orange drop and notification, regardless of whether it was the optimal one for my spec or the least optimal. It was exciting regardless and added a nice flair of anything can happen with something to look forward to from all forms of content. And no, I wasn’t confined to normal raids and entry level keys as you suggested.

[apepi1337]

Isn’t that literally how the entire game and gearing system has always and entirely worked? Whether that be a weapon drop, or a trinket, or tier sets? That’s literally the design of the game and it’s not confined to the Legion legendaries. If another fire mage gets the BiS trinket/weapon or the 2 set/4 set tier bonus before you do, guess what - they’re going to do more damage than you (if you’re both of a same skill level).

But it wasn't the same. You could be a top player and someone of way less skill would out dps you by a far margin. If ilvl is roughly the same then the better player always was higher on the meter. The Legion legendary changed that. It was strictly who got the top legendary.

[Santandame]

But it wasn't the same. You could be a top player and someone of way less skill would out dps you by a far margin. If ilvl is roughly the same then the better player always was higher on the meter. The Legion legendary changed that. It was strictly who got the top legendary.

Was that actually the case though or just something that got around by word of mouth and everyone took it as gospel? I remember vividly not having my BiS pieces on my two main characters until well into 7.3 and there’d be several occasions I’d out DPS the same class with the BiS legendary pieces.

[Polybius]

Didnt say that. There was a grind and only a vocal minority didnt like it. People like deterministic things you can farm. AP wasn't an issue, it only was for the vocal minority that 'feels like' they have to always keep grinding. There was no point in grinding excessive amounts unless you were a top 0.1% raider.
Essences were a good grind: Some time and effort with a definitive endpoint

That’s a lot of vocal minorities if you in include every other forum on top of official. In this day and age most people don’t want to play catch-up, esp. gamble for player power (i.e sublayers of rng like Azerite powers).

I think their point on SL alleviating still stands, same for account-wide progression.

[Makorus]

So you’ve gone from that legendaries would hold your guild/group back from progressing if you didn’t have the optimal one (it wouldn’t), to saying it’s terrible game design that another player would do more DPS than you because they got a better drop than your “shitty” drop…?

Isn’t that literally how the entire game and gearing system has always and entirely worked? Whether that be a weapon drop, or a trinket, or tier sets? That’s literally the design of the game and it’s not confined to the Legion legendaries. If another fire mage gets the BiS trinket/weapon or the 2 set/4 set tier bonus before you do, guess what - they’re going to do more damage than you (if you’re both of a same skill level).

The whole Legion legendary complaints was always overblown. It’s exactly the same as the WoW gearing treadmill has ever been.

I for one loved the feeling of an orange drop and notification, regardless of whether it was the optimal one for my spec or the least optimal. It was exciting regardless and added a nice flair of anything can happen with something to look forward to from all forms of content. And no, I wasn’t confined to normal raids and entry level keys as you suggested.

I mean, I didn't go from that to this at all, as both are independent points.

You are holding your guild and your group back by having the BIS Legendary, and aren't trying to stay ahead of the curve of the AP grind.

That's like saying that "Oh, only 1% should care if your raiders show up without enchants or without fully upgraded gear", which would be a ridiculous claim to make.

Isn’t that literally how the entire game and gearing system has always and entirely worked? Whether that be a weapon drop, or a trinket, or tier sets? That’s literally the design of the game and it’s not confined to the Legion legendaries. If another fire mage gets the BiS trinket/weapon or the 2 set/4 set tier bonus before you do, guess what - they’re going to do more damage than you (if you’re both of a same skill level).

No weapon drop or trinket drop had as big of a % difference in terms of one item slot. If you have roughly the same ilvl, but one player has two BIS trinkets, and the other one has shit trinkets, the DPS wouldn't be as big as the difference between the BIS Legendary and the worst legendary, especially because all the utility legendaries were garbage at the start of Legion.

The whole Legion legendary complaints was always overblown. It’s exactly the same as the WoW gearing treadmill has ever been.

I for one loved the feeling of an orange drop and notification, regardless of whether it was the optimal one for my spec or the least optimal. It was exciting regardless and added a nice flair of anything can happen with something to look forward to from all forms of content. And no, I wasn’t confined to normal raids and entry level keys as you suggested.

That's just revisionist BS. The majority of players hated the system because it was needlessly punishing and you literally couldn't get more than three legendaries for the longest time. Not being able to get the best legendary for your spec until like 7.2/7.3 because you just didn't get lucky and permanently being gimped because someone else got luckier at the start of the expansion is a fucking terrible feeling for an RPG, and yes, that was a thing that was possible.

Here's an image of someone tracking his legendary drops, for example.

Was that actually the case though or just something that got around by word of mouth and everyone took it as gospel? I remember vividly not having my BiS pieces on my two main characters until well into 7.3 and there’d be several occasions I’d out DPS the same class with the BiS legendary pieces.

Yes, it was. Generally for most specs it was at least a 15% DPS difference.

[Sondrelk]

So you’ve gone from that legendaries would hold your guild/group back from progressing if you didn’t have the optimal one (it wouldn’t), to saying it’s terrible game design that another player would do more DPS than you because they got a better drop than your “shitty” drop…?

Isn’t that literally how the entire game and gearing system has always and entirely worked? Whether that be a weapon drop, or a trinket, or tier sets? That’s literally the design of the game and it’s not confined to the Legion legendaries. If another fire mage gets the BiS trinket/weapon or the 2 set/4 set tier bonus before you do, guess what - they’re going to do more damage than you (if you’re both of a same skill level).

The whole Legion legendary complaints was always overblown. It’s exactly the same as the WoW gearing treadmill has ever been.

I for one loved the feeling of an orange drop and notification, regardless of whether it was the optimal one for my spec or the least optimal. It was exciting regardless and added a nice flair of anything can happen with something to look forward to from all forms of content. And no, I wasn’t confined to normal raids and entry level keys as you suggested.

The Legion legendary issue was not really overblown. At least not when you consider the initial launch.

The gulf between the worst and best legendaries were not just in numbers, but in how your class played and felt. There was also the fact that their rarity and soft cap meant that players could get stuck with legendaries that genuinely did nothing but be stat sticks of varying usefulness.

[Joshuaj]

No one has the new book yet? Damn...

[Reive]

No one has the new book yet? Damn...

there is a thread on the forums: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...thread/1888803

apparently the book doesn't really add or retcons much lore

[Joshuaj]

there is a thread on the forums: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...thread/1888803

apparently the book doesn't really add or retcons much lore

I know about this, but I need MORE

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"Agreed. An’she, aka An’shuul the Void-corrupted Cosmic Wanderer, will be a disposable dungeon boss in Midnight, like Mueh’zala and Rezan were in previous expansions. :smiley:

Why do Trolls/Tauren keep worshipping mere dungeon bosses who get downed by only 5 people?"

Varodoc, wtf is this?

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Also, what is this about An'she bleeding out? Was this mentioned?

[huth]

I know about this, but I need MORE

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"Agreed. An’she, aka An’shuul the Void-corrupted Cosmic Wanderer, will be a disposable dungeon boss in Midnight, like Mueh’zala and Rezan were in previous expansions. :smiley:

Why do Trolls/Tauren keep worshipping mere dungeon bosses who get downed by only 5 people?"

Varodoc, wtf is this?

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Also, what is this about An'she bleeding out? Was this mentioned?

Varodoc's delusion that there's any connection whatsoever between a random Aberrus trinket and An'she. Despite the sun still clearly being where it's supposed to be.

[Joshuaj]

Varodoc's delusion that there's any connection whatsoever between a random Aberrus trinket and An'she. Despite the sun still clearly being where it's supposed to be.

Yeah but what's also with the mindset of An'she being a Naaru? Was something talking about it or?

[Eldryth]

Also, what is this about An'she bleeding out? Was this mentioned?

I don't know if there's more in Chronicles, but it looks like this came from a Tauren creation myth from Folk & Fairy Tales of Azeroth. If I'm understanding it right from a quick look, it sounds like An'she was wounded by the Old Gods or their minions, then he and Mu'sha took up their orbits to protect the land from more "shadows" (I assume preventing more Old Gods from coming?), with Mu'sha tending to An'she's wound. And apparently the Tauren believe that the light you can see just before dawn is An'she bleeding light.

The idea that this bleeding is slowly turning An'she towards the Void would be plausible under what we know of Light and Void entities, but it's still a big assumption- especially given that the sun is still clearly giving out light, so even if this is happening, she clearly hasn't turned yet (and therefore shouldn't be An'shuul, which already seems to exist as a Void entity). Maybe Mu'sha's healing is keeping An'she from falling to the Void, and given An'shuul's name and the Silent Star also mentioned in Sarkareth's loot it could make sense for it to be a different star that fell to the Void.

But again, this is all based on existing lore- if there's anything new that affects this in Chronicles, I haven't seen it yet.

[Joshuaj]

I don't know if there's more in Chronicles, but it looks like this came from a Tauren creation myth from Folk & Fairy Tales of Azeroth. If I'm understanding it right from a quick look, it sounds like An'she was wounded by the Old Gods or their minions, then he and Mu'sha took up their orbits to protect the land from more "shadows" (I assume preventing more Old Gods from coming?), with Mu'sha tending to An'she's wound. And apparently the Tauren believe that the light you can see just before dawn is An'she bleeding light.

The idea that this bleeding is slowly turning An'she towards the Void would be plausible under what we know of Light and Void entities, but it's still a big assumption- especially given that the sun is still clearly giving out light, so even if this is happening, she clearly hasn't turned yet (and therefore shouldn't be An'shuul, which already seems to exist as a Void entity). Maybe Mu'sha's healing is keeping An'she from falling to the Void, and given An'shuul's name and the Silent Star also mentioned in Sarkareth's loot it could make sense for it to be a different star that fell to the Void.

But again, this is all based on existing lore- if there's anything new that affects this in Chronicles, I haven't seen it yet.

So, if I am to believe this right, and assuming the Tauren's myth is actually true, then An'she and Mu'sha would be akin to Naaru? And if they are Naaru, then would that make An'shuul a corrupted piece of blood turned into a cosmic void comet?

Cause if they are Naaru, and if this stuff is the case, then Mu'sha is definitely not Elune, and is probably more so a Naaru placed there by Elune and her collaboration with the Light.

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All if this is my headcanon of course. Please don't take this as fact or anything. Honestly, I was on team "An'she is a lord of Life, much like Elune", but knowing the recent stuff I do now? Maybe not?

Would be cool if there was a lord of Life who was in league with creating An'she tho, since we know there are seemingly other Life lords outside of Elune, based off DF.

[huth]

So, if I am to believe this right, and assuming the Tauren's myth is actually true, then An'she and Mu'sha would be akin to Naaru? And if they are Naaru, then would that make An'shuul a corrupted piece of blood turned into a cosmic void comet?

Cause if they are Naaru, and if this stuff is the case, then Mu'sha is definitely not Elune, and is probably more so a Naaru placed there by Elune and her collaboration with the Light.

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All if this is my headcanon of course. Please don't take this as fact or anything. Honestly, I was on team "An'she is a lord of Life, much like Elune", but knowing the recent stuff I do now? Maybe not?

Would be cool if there was a lord of Life who was in league with creating An'she tho, since we know there are seemingly other Life lords outside of Elune, based off DF.

There's no evidence of them being in any way connected to Naaru. That's based on some people equivocating The Light with any light whatsoever.