1. #75761
    Anyone get the new Chronicle early or? I wanna see some pics

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    I think I just good morning sickness. AP was always the issue, as far back as Legion were you couldn't play more than one spec at the start (especially if you got the wrong legendary on top), and I'm saying this as a person who usually prefers to play one spec per character anyways. Essences were also the biggest bullshit ever, on par with their conduit cousins from Shadowlands. On top of that, all of the shit you had to farm in order to play a patch were gone as soon as the next Expansion hit .... if they had build on artifacts in Legion the whole system could have worked, but making everything irrelevant after an expansion is literally the antithesis to WoW. What made this game big is that whatever you invested stayed for your character for ever, which only got solidified when WotLK prepatch hit thanks to achievements, and even more so with transmog and other collections.

    Even corruptions were only cool as long as there was no vendor (yes, hang me) since as soon as you could choose which corruptions to use you were stuck with your "bis" corruptions, so it was all just a grind with an illusion of choice anyways. Twillight Dev was fun as a tank though as long as you didn't had to get versa ones because your key level got over 21.
    As someone who only plays Ret Paladin, I'm so glad I invested in just that 1 spec.

  2. #75762
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Today I learned people complainted about BfA systems were vocal minority, apparently people were loving it and evil elitists took it from us.

    Never change mmochamps.
    Well Azerite armor sucked ass dude.

  3. #75763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    Don’t you literally defend every expansion whilst it’s current and then when that expansion is in the previous cycle and something else is current you move onto criticising it?

    You were very vocal for your defence of Legion, BfA and SL whilst they were current content.
    Never cross you mind that AP could be no problem for me (cause as you I don't min-max), but I can acknowledge it became so hated to the point Ion got loud applause when they announce it's going away in SL?

  4. #75764
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    Anyone can acknowledge the issues with systems like AP and the systems of the last 3 expansions prior to DF. And while they were issues, they mostly affected the "1%" players, or those that think they are. Which trickled down to a lot of others players, and "made" them their problems, even though they would be mostly fine otherwise.

    I play casually most of the time, and hadn't any personal problems with the system of the past expansions. And most people probably had some grievances here and there, but didn't mind them most of the time. Like, no one holds a gun to your head an demands you to run thorgasts a dozen times, do a lot of M+, PVP on the side just to "keep up" with a perceived need that doesn't exist.

    And reading stuff like "needing legendary, or kick"? WTF is wrong with people like that. I play for fun and enjoyment, not for your crazy demands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    If we somehow do get a void Hunter class, I’ll be the first one to post in this thread to admit my error.
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    I mean, trying to worm out of the way it's the WORLDSOUL saga... yah. It's Azeroth reaching out, not some light fairy.
    Enforcer (Warden/Spellbreaker) Class Idea , Naga using Worgen Rig Mockup, Blizz Class Survey

  5. #75765
    Sorry, but a system where I do way, way, way less DPS than another player because I got a shitty drop is just terrible game design, not to mention that some Legendaries would make the spec more enjoyable gameplay-wise while other Legendaries barely worked (Old Sephuz).

    It's indefendable lmao.

  6. #75766
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Sorry, but a system where I do way, way, way less DPS than another player because I got a shitty drop is just terrible game design, not to mention that some Legendaries would make the spec more enjoyable gameplay-wise while other Legendaries barely worked (Old Sephuz).

    It's indefendable lmao.
    So you’ve gone from that legendaries would hold your guild/group back from progressing if you didn’t have the optimal one (it wouldn’t), to saying it’s terrible game design that another player would do more DPS than you because they got a better drop than your “shitty” drop…?

    Isn’t that literally how the entire game and gearing system has always and entirely worked? Whether that be a weapon drop, or a trinket, or tier sets? That’s literally the design of the game and it’s not confined to the Legion legendaries. If another fire mage gets the BiS trinket/weapon or the 2 set/4 set tier bonus before you do, guess what - they’re going to do more damage than you (if you’re both of a same skill level).

    The whole Legion legendary complaints was always overblown. It’s exactly the same as the WoW gearing treadmill has ever been.

    I for one loved the feeling of an orange drop and notification, regardless of whether it was the optimal one for my spec or the least optimal. It was exciting regardless and added a nice flair of anything can happen with something to look forward to from all forms of content. And no, I wasn’t confined to normal raids and entry level keys as you suggested.

  7. #75767
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    Isn’t that literally how the entire game and gearing system has always and entirely worked? Whether that be a weapon drop, or a trinket, or tier sets? That’s literally the design of the game and it’s not confined to the Legion legendaries. If another fire mage gets the BiS trinket/weapon or the 2 set/4 set tier bonus before you do, guess what - they’re going to do more damage than you (if you’re both of a same skill level).
    But it wasn't the same. You could be a top player and someone of way less skill would out dps you by a far margin. If ilvl is roughly the same then the better player always was higher on the meter. The Legion legendary changed that. It was strictly who got the top legendary.

  8. #75768
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi1337 View Post
    But it wasn't the same. You could be a top player and someone of way less skill would out dps you by a far margin. If ilvl is roughly the same then the better player always was higher on the meter. The Legion legendary changed that. It was strictly who got the top legendary.
    Was that actually the case though or just something that got around by word of mouth and everyone took it as gospel? I remember vividly not having my BiS pieces on my two main characters until well into 7.3 and there’d be several occasions I’d out DPS the same class with the BiS legendary pieces.

  9. #75769
    Scarab Lord Polybius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    Didnt say that. There was a grind and only a vocal minority didnt like it. People like deterministic things you can farm. AP wasn't an issue, it only was for the vocal minority that 'feels like' they have to always keep grinding. There was no point in grinding excessive amounts unless you were a top 0.1% raider.
    Essences were a good grind: Some time and effort with a definitive endpoint
    That’s a lot of vocal minorities if you in include every other forum on top of official. In this day and age most people don’t want to play catch-up, esp. gamble for player power (i.e sublayers of rng like Azerite powers).

    I think their point on SL alleviating still stands, same for account-wide progression.
    Last edited by Polybius; 2024-07-15 at 10:18 PM. Reason: herp derp typos

  10. #75770
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    So you’ve gone from that legendaries would hold your guild/group back from progressing if you didn’t have the optimal one (it wouldn’t), to saying it’s terrible game design that another player would do more DPS than you because they got a better drop than your “shitty” drop…?

    Isn’t that literally how the entire game and gearing system has always and entirely worked? Whether that be a weapon drop, or a trinket, or tier sets? That’s literally the design of the game and it’s not confined to the Legion legendaries. If another fire mage gets the BiS trinket/weapon or the 2 set/4 set tier bonus before you do, guess what - they’re going to do more damage than you (if you’re both of a same skill level).

    The whole Legion legendary complaints was always overblown. It’s exactly the same as the WoW gearing treadmill has ever been.

    I for one loved the feeling of an orange drop and notification, regardless of whether it was the optimal one for my spec or the least optimal. It was exciting regardless and added a nice flair of anything can happen with something to look forward to from all forms of content. And no, I wasn’t confined to normal raids and entry level keys as you suggested.
    I mean, I didn't go from that to this at all, as both are independent points.

    You are holding your guild and your group back by having the BIS Legendary, and aren't trying to stay ahead of the curve of the AP grind.

    That's like saying that "Oh, only 1% should care if your raiders show up without enchants or without fully upgraded gear", which would be a ridiculous claim to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    Isn’t that literally how the entire game and gearing system has always and entirely worked? Whether that be a weapon drop, or a trinket, or tier sets? That’s literally the design of the game and it’s not confined to the Legion legendaries. If another fire mage gets the BiS trinket/weapon or the 2 set/4 set tier bonus before you do, guess what - they’re going to do more damage than you (if you’re both of a same skill level).
    No weapon drop or trinket drop had as big of a % difference in terms of one item slot. If you have roughly the same ilvl, but one player has two BIS trinkets, and the other one has shit trinkets, the DPS wouldn't be as big as the difference between the BIS Legendary and the worst legendary, especially because all the utility legendaries were garbage at the start of Legion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    The whole Legion legendary complaints was always overblown. It’s exactly the same as the WoW gearing treadmill has ever been.

    I for one loved the feeling of an orange drop and notification, regardless of whether it was the optimal one for my spec or the least optimal. It was exciting regardless and added a nice flair of anything can happen with something to look forward to from all forms of content. And no, I wasn’t confined to normal raids and entry level keys as you suggested.
    That's just revisionist BS. The majority of players hated the system because it was needlessly punishing and you literally couldn't get more than three legendaries for the longest time. Not being able to get the best legendary for your spec until like 7.2/7.3 because you just didn't get lucky and permanently being gimped because someone else got luckier at the start of the expansion is a fucking terrible feeling for an RPG, and yes, that was a thing that was possible.

    Here's an image of someone tracking his legendary drops, for example.



    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    Was that actually the case though or just something that got around by word of mouth and everyone took it as gospel? I remember vividly not having my BiS pieces on my two main characters until well into 7.3 and there’d be several occasions I’d out DPS the same class with the BiS legendary pieces.

    Yes, it was. Generally for most specs it was at least a 15% DPS difference.

  11. #75771
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    So you’ve gone from that legendaries would hold your guild/group back from progressing if you didn’t have the optimal one (it wouldn’t), to saying it’s terrible game design that another player would do more DPS than you because they got a better drop than your “shitty” drop…?

    Isn’t that literally how the entire game and gearing system has always and entirely worked? Whether that be a weapon drop, or a trinket, or tier sets? That’s literally the design of the game and it’s not confined to the Legion legendaries. If another fire mage gets the BiS trinket/weapon or the 2 set/4 set tier bonus before you do, guess what - they’re going to do more damage than you (if you’re both of a same skill level).

    The whole Legion legendary complaints was always overblown. It’s exactly the same as the WoW gearing treadmill has ever been.

    I for one loved the feeling of an orange drop and notification, regardless of whether it was the optimal one for my spec or the least optimal. It was exciting regardless and added a nice flair of anything can happen with something to look forward to from all forms of content. And no, I wasn’t confined to normal raids and entry level keys as you suggested.
    The Legion legendary issue was not really overblown. At least not when you consider the initial launch.

    The gulf between the worst and best legendaries were not just in numbers, but in how your class played and felt. There was also the fact that their rarity and soft cap meant that players could get stuck with legendaries that genuinely did nothing but be stat sticks of varying usefulness.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  12. #75772
    No one has the new book yet? Damn...

  13. #75773
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuaj View Post
    No one has the new book yet? Damn...
    there is a thread on the forums: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...thread/1888803

    apparently the book doesn't really add or retcons much lore

  14. #75774
    Quote Originally Posted by Reive View Post
    there is a thread on the forums: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...thread/1888803

    apparently the book doesn't really add or retcons much lore
    I know about this, but I need MORE

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    "Agreed. An’she, aka An’shuul the Void-corrupted Cosmic Wanderer, will be a disposable dungeon boss in Midnight, like Mueh’zala and Rezan were in previous expansions. :smiley:

    Why do Trolls/Tauren keep worshipping mere dungeon bosses who get downed by only 5 people?"

    Varodoc, wtf is this?

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    Also, what is this about An'she bleeding out? Was this mentioned?

  15. #75775
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuaj View Post
    I know about this, but I need MORE

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    "Agreed. An’she, aka An’shuul the Void-corrupted Cosmic Wanderer, will be a disposable dungeon boss in Midnight, like Mueh’zala and Rezan were in previous expansions. :smiley:

    Why do Trolls/Tauren keep worshipping mere dungeon bosses who get downed by only 5 people?"

    Varodoc, wtf is this?

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    Also, what is this about An'she bleeding out? Was this mentioned?
    Varodoc's delusion that there's any connection whatsoever between a random Aberrus trinket and An'she. Despite the sun still clearly being where it's supposed to be.

  16. #75776
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Varodoc's delusion that there's any connection whatsoever between a random Aberrus trinket and An'she. Despite the sun still clearly being where it's supposed to be.
    Yeah but what's also with the mindset of An'she being a Naaru? Was something talking about it or?

  17. #75777
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuaj View Post
    Also, what is this about An'she bleeding out? Was this mentioned?
    I don't know if there's more in Chronicles, but it looks like this came from a Tauren creation myth from Folk & Fairy Tales of Azeroth. If I'm understanding it right from a quick look, it sounds like An'she was wounded by the Old Gods or their minions, then he and Mu'sha took up their orbits to protect the land from more "shadows" (I assume preventing more Old Gods from coming?), with Mu'sha tending to An'she's wound. And apparently the Tauren believe that the light you can see just before dawn is An'she bleeding light.

    The idea that this bleeding is slowly turning An'she towards the Void would be plausible under what we know of Light and Void entities, but it's still a big assumption- especially given that the sun is still clearly giving out light, so even if this is happening, she clearly hasn't turned yet (and therefore shouldn't be An'shuul, which already seems to exist as a Void entity). Maybe Mu'sha's healing is keeping An'she from falling to the Void, and given An'shuul's name and the Silent Star also mentioned in Sarkareth's loot it could make sense for it to be a different star that fell to the Void.

    But again, this is all based on existing lore- if there's anything new that affects this in Chronicles, I haven't seen it yet.

  18. #75778
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldryth View Post
    I don't know if there's more in Chronicles, but it looks like this came from a Tauren creation myth from Folk & Fairy Tales of Azeroth. If I'm understanding it right from a quick look, it sounds like An'she was wounded by the Old Gods or their minions, then he and Mu'sha took up their orbits to protect the land from more "shadows" (I assume preventing more Old Gods from coming?), with Mu'sha tending to An'she's wound. And apparently the Tauren believe that the light you can see just before dawn is An'she bleeding light.

    The idea that this bleeding is slowly turning An'she towards the Void would be plausible under what we know of Light and Void entities, but it's still a big assumption- especially given that the sun is still clearly giving out light, so even if this is happening, she clearly hasn't turned yet (and therefore shouldn't be An'shuul, which already seems to exist as a Void entity). Maybe Mu'sha's healing is keeping An'she from falling to the Void, and given An'shuul's name and the Silent Star also mentioned in Sarkareth's loot it could make sense for it to be a different star that fell to the Void.

    But again, this is all based on existing lore- if there's anything new that affects this in Chronicles, I haven't seen it yet.
    So, if I am to believe this right, and assuming the Tauren's myth is actually true, then An'she and Mu'sha would be akin to Naaru? And if they are Naaru, then would that make An'shuul a corrupted piece of blood turned into a cosmic void comet?

    Cause if they are Naaru, and if this stuff is the case, then Mu'sha is definitely not Elune, and is probably more so a Naaru placed there by Elune and her collaboration with the Light.

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    All if this is my headcanon of course. Please don't take this as fact or anything. Honestly, I was on team "An'she is a lord of Life, much like Elune", but knowing the recent stuff I do now? Maybe not?

    Would be cool if there was a lord of Life who was in league with creating An'she tho, since we know there are seemingly other Life lords outside of Elune, based off DF.

  19. #75779
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuaj View Post
    So, if I am to believe this right, and assuming the Tauren's myth is actually true, then An'she and Mu'sha would be akin to Naaru? And if they are Naaru, then would that make An'shuul a corrupted piece of blood turned into a cosmic void comet?

    Cause if they are Naaru, and if this stuff is the case, then Mu'sha is definitely not Elune, and is probably more so a Naaru placed there by Elune and her collaboration with the Light.

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    All if this is my headcanon of course. Please don't take this as fact or anything. Honestly, I was on team "An'she is a lord of Life, much like Elune", but knowing the recent stuff I do now? Maybe not?

    Would be cool if there was a lord of Life who was in league with creating An'she tho, since we know there are seemingly other Life lords outside of Elune, based off DF.
    There's no evidence of them being in any way connected to Naaru. That's based on some people equivocating The Light with any light whatsoever.

  20. #75780
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    There's no evidence of them being in any way connected to Naaru. That's based on some people equivocating The Light with any light whatsoever.
    Ik, that's why I said headcanon

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