The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

In that vein, what did they mean when they confirmed five old gods then strongly pushed that Xally isn't an Old God?

If Xal isn't Old God 5, then I think #5 is in a state similar to how Elun'ahir was in DF- it's "another one of those things" (world trees/old gods) in a place we dont know (Khaz Algar/?????).

Giving Uldir to the Alliance is similarly a baffling choice. What's the point?

Probably felt their hands were tied to explain how Brann knows MOTHER for 8.3 to happen.

Unsure why they did the Zandalar intro but people getting mad about it are silly. It's dumb to change, but it still happened.

[Murlocos]

What I can't follow about it is why they changed it. It's simultaneously dumb, in so far as the story explicitly hinges on Talanji's liberation from the Stockades coming first and we're left to believe the Horde pick their nose throughout the entire Kul Tiran questing experience, but it's also pointless, in so far as it doesn't meaningfully improve or degrade any other part of the story. Giving Uldir to the Alliance is similarly a baffling choice. What's the point?

I genuinely can't even think of a reason for it. Even the basest stuff like bruised egos or overly sweeping removals of anything a problematic employee worked on shouldn't apply here. It's hard to even discuss it because of that. I never expected this book to be some large-scale recontextualization of disliked stories, but the fact they went back and deliberately altered a story to make less sense via shuffling random parts of it around for no narrative benefit is truly impressive.

[micwini]

During speculations before Blizzcon I suspected that Xalatath was 5th god that was imprisoned in dagger by other 4 (and dagger contains N'zoth now). Anything in TWW that debunks it?

--

Btw, how you feel about August launch? Before SL I thought Christmas season is better choice, but to be honest Legion/BfA launches were far more enjoyable for me than WoD/SL/DF.

I like this more. Right after holidays, kind of a new start. Having them right before christmas just introduces "I want to spend time with loved ones, but fuck new expac". It's also because you have something fun to look forward to instead of just 'ah shit work/school is restarting again"

[Joshuaj]

the primus still mogs him

Domination carried loool

[micwini]

I genuinely can't even think of a reason for it. Even the basest stuff like bruised egos or overly sweeping removals of anything a problematic employee worked on shouldn't apply here. It's hard to even discuss it because of that. I never expected this book to be some large-scale recontextualization of disliked stories, but the fact they went back and deliberately altered a story to make less sense via shuffling random parts of it around for no narrative benefit is truly impressive.

It makes 0 sense. As ally you start in SW keep where you see a flashback from an escaped sailor of Talanji returning to Zandalar. So it is impossible that everything horde comes after Kultiras....

[Timester]

"Zovaal was the strongest of the Eternal Ones"

Get. Fucked. All. Of. You.

That's funny, since it's a Titan writing the Chronicles. Blizzard is underplaying everything Shadowlands' related.

[Super Dickmann]

If Xal isn't Old God 5, then I think #5 is in a state similar to how Elun'ahir was in DF- it's "another one of those things" (world trees/old gods) in a place we dont know (Khaz Algar/?????).

I guess #5 is either the non-denominational black blood that's being drained by Xally (apparently not her own from her former body), or the one on the mural, if they're not one and the same.

As for the MOTHER explanation, yes, Brann working with MOTHER and knowing her didn't make much sense earlier, but that's far from the most ludicrous character interaction in BFA. I guess they get points for cutting Memeboi's inexplicable teleportation and hyper-awareness of Sadfang's location as well as the bit about how the Bronze Dragons find it of vital importance to traffic Iron Horde reinforcements to Sylvanas during a war she's waging on behalf of the Mega-Devil, so there's that.

@Murlocos

I'm not angry or upset about it, just kind of confused as to what went down in the writing room. Did the guy tasked with writing up the Alliance-side recap finish first and they decided to put his stuff in while the Horde guy was taking too long?

[Joshuaj]

That's funny, since it's a Titan writing the Chronicles. Blizzard is underplaying everything Shadowlands' related.

They're not underplaying anything lmaooo

The force of Order just can't outright confirm the Progenitors existence cause Odyn said not to. However, they can express them in "maybes" and "presumptions".

- - - Updated - - -

Also, what is being downplayed regarding the Jailer? Bro was quite literally being glazed this entire book

[Super Dickmann]

Also, what is being downplayed regarding the Jailer? Bro was quite literally being glazed this entire book

I do have to give you some credit, since after everyone expected them to take the chance to downplay Shadowlands and the Bald Man as much as possible, they instead doubled down at every opportunity..

[Joshuaj]

I do have to give you some credit, since after everyone expected them to take the chance to downplay Shadowlands and the Bald Man as much as possible, they instead doubled down at every opportunity..

As I expected. The only thing downplayed is the idea that the First Ones are a "myth" to the force of Order, however you can just excuse that as it being the result of Odyn's edicts.

The book is essentially them saying the Progenitors exist without them outright confirming it.

- - - Updated - - -

And idk if Chronicle is lying about the Progenitors themselves being called Light, Shadow, Order, Disorder, Life, and Death, or if it's true, but regardless, the Progenitors came before their influences.

[Timester]

They're not underplaying anything lmaooo

The force of Order just can't outright confirm the Progenitors existence cause Odyn said not to. However, they can express them in "maybes" and "presumptions".

- - - Updated - - -

Also, what is being downplayed regarding the Jailer? Bro was quite literally being glazed this entire book

Because it's written by a Titan. Odyn is just a Watcher. This tied with the Arathian "cosmic forces charts are wrong" book, clearly paints the picture.

When we put the pieces of the puzzle together, it's almost as Metzen himself saying "guys, chill, you are reading too much and creating too much boxes".

[Super Dickmann]

As I expected. The only thing downplayed is the idea that the First Ones are a "myth" to the force of Order, however you can just excuse that as it being the result of Odyn's edicts.

The book is essentially them saying the Progenitors exist without them outright confirming it.

Hence the credit. As for the First Ones, an entire expansion hinged on them existing, the question was what they were and if Blizzard would take the chance to downplay them and back away from ZM (e.g. making them another set of Titans). Instead, they took a fairly interesting route with it that gave them maneuverability if they should decide that them being actual entities was just a mass delusion and they're more like cosmic principles/forces of nature that were considered gods by the SL Pantheon like how tribes humanized natural phenomena.

[Timester]

I do have to give you some credit, since after everyone expected them to take the chance to downplay Shadowlands and the Bald Man as much as possible, they instead doubled down at every opportunity..

Chronicles is still "The Bible of Warcraft Lore" and Metzen's baby, even if Danuser retconned it to be Titan's PoV, they have to explain every single expansion.

I honestly prefer that they recognize the can of worms and try to fix it then to ignore it completely.

Hence the credit. As for the First Ones, an entire expansion hinged on them existing, the question was what they were and if Blizzard would take the chance to downplay them and back away from ZM (e.g. making them another set of Titans). Instead, they took a fairly interesting route with it that gave them maneuverability if they should decide that them being actual entities was just a mass delusion and they're more like cosmic principles/forces of nature that were considered gods by the SL Pantheon like how tribes humanized natural phenomena.

Yes, that's a good take.

[Super Dickmann]

Chronicles is still "The Bible of Warcraft Lore" and Metzen's baby, even if Danuser retconned it to be Titan's PoV, they have to explain every single expansion.

I honestly prefer that they recognize the can of worms and try to fix it then to ignore it completely.

They did, but from what I've seen thus far, they've changed next to nothing about it and even busied themselves fixing Bald Man-related inconsistencies like the entire Soulcage business to fuse the Shadowlands and pre-SL motive.

[Cheezits]

They improved Shadowlands by confirming the Primus did look like his statue once upon a time.

That's it. That's really all they changed. And it's for the better.

Are there any sizable changes besides the BFA Intro fiasco? Doesn't look like it. There was no way people would like this book because A) Chronicles B) BFA and Shadowlands are included but I really don't see a reason to hate this.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Hence the credit. As for the First Ones, an entire expansion hinged on them existing, the question was what they were and if Blizzard would take the chance to downplay them and back away from ZM (e.g. making them another set of Titans). Instead, they took a fairly interesting route with it that gave them maneuverability if they should decide that them being actual entities was just a mass delusion and they're more like cosmic principles/forces of nature that were considered gods by the SL Pantheon like how tribes humanized natural phenomena.

As palatable as that justification is, it happens to bring up the classic Blizzard problem of raising more questions—namely, did the massive, notably non-Death-related factory just spontaneously generate in the Shadowlands as the Boltzmann Brain with the lowest IQ on record?

[Varodoc]

Chronicles IV also confirms that there were Sunreavers (note plural) that helped steal the Divine Bell from Darnassus.

I love how this book is confirming again and again that Jaina did nothing wrong!

[FossilFree]

most likely. Still, i'm not sure i would call Invalidus a void lord, as it may just be a buffed up voidwalker instead. Blizzard really needs to distinguish the name and meaning between void lord (capital big bads) and voidlords (buff voidwalkers)

Unless... What if the Void lords, are just voidwalkers? But they are myriad, reflecting the voids thing about thousands truths and all possible ways. Each void lord is a true void lord, but also just a voidwalker... until it is time for them to be a big bad. would be to high of a concept perhaps, but a fascinating idea.

Voidlords are void lords, and void lords are voidlords. What we see as an "elemental of the void" is just the fragment of their being that the void lord was able to squeeze into our reality.

This was only "a fragment, shadow, the faintest of echoes" of Dimensius, and he was not fully manifested in the physical universe.

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Dimens..._All-Devouring

[Joshuaj]

Because it's written by a Titan. Odyn is just a Watcher. This tied with the Arathian "cosmic forces charts are wrong" book, clearly paints the picture.

When we put the pieces of the puzzle together, it's almost as Metzen himself saying "guys, chill, you are reading too much and creating too much boxes".

Metzen didn't write this lol. Also, no, Chronicle is written VIA a Titan "perspective" which just means the Chronicle was document with the viewpoint of the "Titans". Also, Odyn may be a Keeper, but he's also the Titans Prime Designate Keeper on Azeroth and hence carries out their directive to everyone else.

[Aucald]

What implies that Zereth Mortis ain't the source for Death's energies?

It's mostly down to the fact that you don't see any evidence of it - Zereth Mortis has no natural anima, the very bedrock of Death and the Shadowlands themselves. Death's energies largely come from the souls laden with anima that arrive there, which are sent to the various organs of the Shadowlands either via its infinite shard-realms or the Covenant realms. It doesn't come from Zereth Mortis in any observable fashion.