The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Joshuaj]

It's mostly down to the fact that you don't see any evidence of it - Zereth Mortis has no natural anima, the very bedrock of Death and the Shadowlands themselves. Death's energies largely come from the souls laden with anima that arrive there, which are sent to the various organs of the Shadowlands either via its infinite shard-realms or the Covenant realms. It doesn't come from Zereth Mortis in any observable fashion.

Fair enough, tho I imagine it also made the foundations for the power source to be a thing. Zereth Mortis is responsible for the fabric of the afterlife as a whole.

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Oh, look, more things we already knew and Varodoc blowing it way out of proportion. You really need to work on your confirmation bias.



Which makes sense when it is supposed to be the factory creating the infrastructure, not the power source for the place. I'd question the Chronicle claim of it being the First One, but that's probably one of the reasons they don't speak in absolutes there.

I mean, to be fair here, the Zereths and influences as a whole being extensions of the First Ones has been talked about in SL. Firim mentions how the Progenitors gave a portion of themselves when designing the pattern, and Zereth Mortis is filled with the Progenitor's essences.

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https://www.wowhead.com/item=187707/progenitor-essentia

"An extraordinarily rare remnant of the Progenitors which can be used to craft powerful enhancements. Can be bought and sold on the auction house."

[Timester]

Metzen didn't write this lol. Also, no, Chronicle is written VIA a Titan "perspective" which just means the Chronicle was document with the viewpoint of the "Titans". Also, Odyn may be a Keeper, but he's also the Titans Prime Designate Keeper on Azeroth and hence carries out their directive to everyone else.

Metzen wrote the first three Chronicles and Chronicles Vol 4 is announced after Metzen became again Executive Creative Director of the Warcraft universe. Do you honestly believe that Metzen didn't approved every single word written in Chronicles Vol 4? It's his job.

Shadowlands it's the only part that Metzen wasn't involved with.

[Joshuaj]

Metzen wrote the first three Chronicles and Chronicles Vol 4 is announced after Metzen became again Executive Creative Director of the Warcraft universe. Do you honestly believe that Metzen didn't approved every single word written in Chronicles Vol 4? It's his job.

You do realize Chronicle 4 was likely being made before Metzen announced his return as executive creative director, right? Even then, the Progenitors being considered "myth" in Chronicle has an in-universe explanation

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The very fact the book wasn't written by him screams volumes. Also, Metzen and Danuser worked together on things before Danuser left, so I don't think Metzen is all that against things.

[FossilFree]

yeah, i like that more and more. All the little voidwalker that warlocks summon, all the voidwalkers out there, just fragments of the true void lords. They are one and many at the same time would be such a different type compared to all the other big boys of the other forces.

Agreed! It's part of why the void makes for such an interesting antagonist.

[Timester]

You do realize Chronicle 4 was likely being made before Metzen announced his return as executive creative director, right? Even then, the Progenitors being considered "myth" in Chronicle has an in-universe explanation

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The very fact the book wasn't written by him screams volumes. Also, Metzen and Danuser worked together on things before Danuser left, so I don't think Metzen is all that against things.

I didn't said he is against. Only that Shadowlands' idea of cosmology is being downplayed, as we see in TWiW. They just want to write a game without ticking cosmic boxes.

If the Chronicles Vol IV is being retold exactly like it happens in-game by a Titan PoV, it pretty much saying "yes, it happened, lets move on".

[Joshuaj]

I didn't said he is against. Only that Shadowlands' idea of cosmology is being downplayed, as we see in TWiW. They just want to write a game without ticking cosmic boxes.

If the Chronicles Vol IV is being retold exactly like it happens in-game by a Titan PoV, it pretty much saying "yes, it happened, lets move on".

What does TWW downplay?

[Lady Atia]

What does TWW downplay?

It didn't, they just added that usually, cosmic forces dip in more elements than just their own, which we already saw in Shadowlands. People are just hating on Shadowlands and see everything that adds on new lore on top as "retcon", see the chronicles IV discussion.

[Cheezits]

I'm already seeing people mad that they didn't drastically change Shadowlands. They are crazy for that one: like they could bully Blizzard into doing it.

[Reive]

I'm already seeing people mad that they didn't drastically change Shadowlands. They are crazy for that one: like they could bully Blizzard into doing it.

i'm seeing more people mad at the bfa retcons (which were unnecessary) lmao

[huth]

I mean, to be fair here, the Zereths and influences as a whole being extensions of the First Ones has been talked about in SL. Firim mentions how the Progenitors gave a portion of themselves when designing the pattern, and Zereth Mortis is filled with the Progenitor's essences.

Would you consider a house that incorporates part of your hair into the building to be you? I wouldn't.

[Timester]

What does TWW downplay?

"Unlike our ancestors, we don't limit our thinking of the cosmos to monopole elemental phase spaces. A discredited notion rooted in ancient myths from old Arathor. A comforting, if technically incorrect arrangement of the fundamental forces of the cosmos.

One wonders if such quaint notions would have faded but for creatures like demons and the Old Gods who work primarily through a single energy types. This conflation of culture and dimensional topology holds back so many otherwise promising mages.

Put simply, the cosmos appears as a hexateron. Imagine a four-sided tetrahedron internally extruded to form a multidimensional solid with twenty planes of existence, fifteen transitory pathways, and six vertices where interferon patterns create monopolar expressions of cosmic forces.

Singular energy types are unstable according to Ogdaen's law, and thus they bind to one or more secondary elements. The Firelands contains as much magma as it does flame, and why the holy radiance of the Sacred Flame acts as an eternal beacon.

Enough preamble! Let's get to the fun part! Logic proofs. Let us start with a foundational equation:
Phi(M1, M2) = k* (Sigma(C1+ C2 + ... + Cn) + Sigma(D1 + D2 + ... + Dn))
<The rest of this tome consists of 627 more pages of symbolic logic and their proofs. Broken up by the occasional anecdote about mage tower hijinx, the debunking of a historical myth, or a truly terrible dad pun.>"

It didn't, they just added that usually, cosmic forces dip in more elements than just their own, which we already saw in Shadowlands. People are just hating on Shadowlands and see everything that adds on new lore on top as "retcon", see the chronicles IV discussion.

Adding more cosmic debate, especially one that points that cosmic charts are wrong, only dilutes the consistent of the previous debate.

[Lady Atia]

i'm seeing more people mad at the bfa retcons (which were unnecessary) lmao

No they weren't lol. BfA was and always will be the biggest lore shitshow ever so any changes to that are always welcome lol. It's also great that the book literally starts with the Sylvanas chapter haha.

[Reive]

No they weren't lol. BfA was and always will be the biggest lore shitshow ever so any changes to that are always welcome lol. It's also great that the book literally starts with the Sylvanas chapter haha.

The ones they did were unnecessary.

[Cheezits]

No they weren't lol. BfA was and always will be the biggest lore shitshow ever so any changes to that are always welcome lol. It's also great that the book literally starts with the Sylvanas chapter haha.

The biggest change, and the one people are most angry about, is that the Talanji and Zul prison escape scenario was changed to be following the Kul Tiras storyline. I don't think it's worth getting angry over but the anger is that it doesn't make a lot of sense, especially how in game you decide to go to Kul Tiras after a cinematic of Talanji escaping.

The more I think about it, the more I kind of see why they did it- to better justify the Battle for Dazar'alor and why the Alliance invasions of Zandalar worked so much more effectively than the smaller-scale Horde invasions of Kul Tiras. It also explains how Sylvanas had the time to do all her Derek and Ashvane shenanigans.

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The ones they did were unnecessary.

I don't think the two island plots could have happened exactly at the same time. But I don't think the time shift they did was necessary either. So they just overshot.

[Santandame]

No they weren't lol. BfA was and always will be the biggest lore shitshow ever so any changes to that are always welcome lol. It's also great that the book literally starts with the Sylvanas chapter haha.

Someone didn’t play The Burning Crusade.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Kinda funny to think about, if all the Zandalari stuff happens after all of KT that means the horde attacked Brennadam not because they were already fighting the alliance in the area but as a straight up land grab/just for the slaughter.

And then Rexxar comes along and acts like it’s Jiana in the wrong like an absolute tool.

[Santandame]

Kinda funny to think about, if all the Zandalari stuff happens after all of KT that means the horde attacked Brennadam not because they were already fighting the alliance in the area but as a straight up land grab/just for the slaughter.

And then Rexxar comes along and acts like it’s Jiana in the wrong like an absolute tool.

And that Drustvar was still full of Witches and the Drust after Gorak Tul was defeated during the Kul Tiras levelling.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And that Drustvar was still full of Witches and the Drust after Gorak Tul was defeated during the Kul Tiras levelling.

Ya the whole thing is such a crap shoot.

Don’t now how you get basic stuff like this wrong the other chronicles didn’t run into this issue.

[Alanar]

That bfa stuff such a shit show.

The timing of things, especially because its so long ago, to then find out this happends when these people did, this and that.

[Joshuaj]

It didn't, they just added that usually, cosmic forces dip in more elements than just their own, which we already saw in Shadowlands. People are just hating on Shadowlands and see everything that adds on new lore on top as "retcon", see the chronicles IV discussion.

That's what I took from the War Within book as well

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"Unlike our ancestors, we don't limit our thinking of the cosmos to monopole elemental phase spaces. A discredited notion rooted in ancient myths from old Arathor. A comforting, if technically incorrect arrangement of the fundamental forces of the cosmos.

One wonders if such quaint notions would have faded but for creatures like demons and the Old Gods who work primarily through a single energy types. This conflation of culture and dimensional topology holds back so many otherwise promising mages.

Put simply, the cosmos appears as a hexateron. Imagine a four-sided tetrahedron internally extruded to form a multidimensional solid with twenty planes of existence, fifteen transitory pathways, and six vertices where interferon patterns create monopolar expressions of cosmic forces.

Singular energy types are unstable according to Ogdaen's law, and thus they bind to one or more secondary elements. The Firelands contains as much magma as it does flame, and why the holy radiance of the Sacred Flame acts as an eternal beacon.

Enough preamble! Let's get to the fun part! Logic proofs. Let us start with a foundational equation:
Phi(M1, M2) = k* (Sigma(C1+ C2 + ... + Cn) + Sigma(D1 + D2 + ... + Dn))
<The rest of this tome consists of 627 more pages of symbolic logic and their proofs. Broken up by the occasional anecdote about mage tower hijinx, the debunking of a historical myth, or a truly terrible dad pun.>"



Adding more cosmic debate, especially one that points that cosmic charts are wrong, only dilutes the consistent of the previous debate.

That's just the arathi saying other charts are wrong only to come to the same conclusion in a different manner