The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

That is actually a quite solid point. How did Nathanos gained the dagger again?

Horde Players take it from the crucible of the Storms to Sylvanas. But that has nothing to do with Xal'atath taking a humanoid form, that happens way before.

[huth]

They also speak of a potential seventh with a unclear nature. Perhaps this is azeroth world soul. A first one, that is not something, yet. But it will be everything. This goes back to the Firim notes of the seventh being the "other" to the 6 forces. Basically, where the 6 first ones represent each cosmic force separately, Azeroth would represent them combined.

The whole thing may well just be a setup by the First Ones to get every force to "instill" itself into Azeroth.

[micwini]

Please guys, just stop.
The last thing we need is more numero uno's in wow lore.

[Joshuaj]

Idk, new book states otherwise.

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Also:
So it seems that "First Ones" are just a made up legend by the inhabitants of Shadowlands.


Though this tome previously set forth the creation of the physical universe, the Pantheon of Death believed differently. A myth had taken root in the Shadowlands, centered around a group of mysterious and enigmatic beings known as the First Ones. Their number varies according to perspective, but the Eternal Ones believed there to be six: Light, Shadow, Order, Disorder, Life and Death. Some believed in a seventh power, but its nature was unclear. These First Ones existed in a constant conflict with one another, until opposition became balance, and battle became creation. A design was formed, a pattern was drawn, and each gave something of itself to his manifestation. These interactions birthed children of their kind, who existed similarly in both harmony and discord. Within this mythos, the denizens of the Shadowlands believed every sentient creature in the universe sprang from the original patterns fashioned by these First Ones. The beliefs hold that these beings created the titan Pantheon, the Old Gods, the naaru. They supposedly formed the realms of the living and also the dead - the Shadowlands - and its pantheon, the Eternal Ones.

That's because the person that wrote Chronicle has their own mythos and beliefs. Also, Odyn made it specifically clear that mortals can't know anything about the Progenitors (or at least not in any "true" sense, so documentations such as this are stuck with using "maybes" and "supposeds" to discuss them).

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They also speak of a potential seventh with a unclear nature. Perhaps this is azeroth world soul. A first one, that is not something, yet. But it will be everything. This goes back to the Firim notes of the seventh being the "other" to the 6 forces. Basically, where the 6 first ones represent each cosmic force separately, Azeroth would represent them combined.

Except they don't represent each force separately. They took a piece of themselves and put those pieces into their design, hence creating the cosmic influences we see today. These influences are just named after the Progenitors.

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Azeroth being the supposed amalgamation of the 6 Forces further goes into my theory that she's the Progenitors' golden child.

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I guess we'll have to wait for chronicle 5!!
I like most additions from this latest addition. Some good bangers there like finally confirming that sunreavers were actively complicit in stealing the bell.
The only big L in this one, is the handling of the BFA timeline. Makes 0 sense no matter how hard you try to wrap your head around it.

Or you can read the edicts of the prime designate

[Houle]

"Zovaal was the strongest of the Eternal Ones"

Get. Fucked. All. Of. You.

That was never even questioned by most people here lol. Did you really just make that "argument" up to make it seem like you alone knew that?

What many people here told you is that none of the Eternal Ones, including Zovaal, come even close to a titan. And that seemingly still holds up after Chronicles 4.

It's always only the same handful of posters who derail shit into semantical circle-jerks about topics.

Ey now, at least Varodoc moved from constant Alleria-only larping to Alliance overall larping.

[Gurahk]

It's always only the same handful of posters who derail shit into semantical circle-jerks about topics.

You'd think at this point people would learn to use the ignore feature.

[Varodoc]

That was never even questioned by most people here lol. Did you really just make that "argument" up to make it seem like you alone knew that?

What many people here told you is that none of the Eternal Ones, including Zovaal, come even close to a titan. And that seemingly still holds up after Chronicles 4.



Ey now, at least Varodoc moved from constant Alleria-only larping to Alliance overall larping.

You do realize that I have always been an Alliance fan, right?

As a matter of fact, Alleria is no longer an Alliance character, as she abandoned the Void Elves and the Alliance to pursue her own personal hunt at the end of DF.

That's right: Alleria is no longer an Alliance character, she is a Neutral one, and therefore any storyline involving Alleria is a Neutral storyline.

The only Alliance characters in TWW are Moira, Dagran II, and Jaina.

[Gigantique]

Lol no. BfA is the worst expansion, even WoD was better than that shit. Shadowlands was actually great after they fixed the initial covenant bullshit. Also the content draught didn't help either - if we had shorter patches it would have been on par with Legion or MoP.

Nah man, imo BFA was *fine* for the first bit with the massive caveat that you had better enjoy world content and NEVER fall behind the curve, then you're good. Essences and later corrupted gear made those patches actual fire, but again with the MASSIVE caveat that they absolutely sucked ass if you had taken a break for any patch before that.

Which is a massive massive flaw, but didn't change the fact that I actually enjoyed the entire expansion as a curve/+20/2200rating player.

[Joshuaj]

That was never even questioned by most people here lol. Did you really just make that "argument" up to make it seem like you alone knew that?

What many people here told you is that none of the Eternal Ones, including Zovaal, come even close to a titan. And that seemingly still holds up after Chronicles 4.



Ey now, at least Varodoc moved from constant Alleria-only larping to Alliance overall larping.

It literally doesn't hold up in Chronicle 4 (Hell, the book goes out of its way to double down on the fact that Eternal Ones like Kyrestia were weakened to shit from the drought), and I've literally had people tell me that there was no proof of Zovaal being the strongest Eternal One prior to his banishment. Don't be silly now.

[Cheezits]

It literally doesn't hold up in Chronicle 4 (Hell, the book goes out of its way to double down on the fact that Eternal Ones like Kyrestia were weakened to shit from the drought), and I've literally had people tell me that there was no proof of Zovaal being the strongest Eternal One prior to his banishment. Don't be silly now.

That's interesting. That actually makes me think it lends credence to that idea the Eternal Ones aren't natural and are tied directly to the Anima Cycle.

Why would a true Death God be weakened by something being rationed or siphoned throughout their own realm? Are Old Gods weaker when they aren't Voidy enough?

[Marlamin]

Good evening you all, Qucik Question, is the music Finally in the beta or not?

Not yet, but it is almost all hooked up though, so the moment they ship the MP3s it should work in-game, at least.

[Houle]

It literally doesn't hold up in Chronicle 4 (Hell, the book goes out of its way to double down on the fact that Eternal Ones like Kyrestia were weakened to shit from the drought)

It absolutely holds up.

Kyrestia may not have been at the top of her game, but Zovaal and Denathrius were not weakened by any drought, and both of them still havent shown anything that puts them even remotely on the level of a titan. Weve had this discussion before, and it ended when i asked to you provide even a single source for your claims, after which you stopped replying.

and I've literally had people tell me that there was no proof of Zovaal being the strongest Eternal One prior to his banishment. Don't be silly now.

So bc maybe a couple of dudes had that discussion with you years ago, you now felt the need to randomly bring it up again like you just won some big, relevant discussion in this thread lel

[Auxis]

they certainly painted it as worldsouls are at the core of planets, instead of titans. And even the reason for sargeras isn't merely the potential of a dark titan, but a void creature born from a worldsoul. So, not really retcons, but removing the notion that worldsouls are automatically titans.

I think that matches with the "radiant song" being Light aligned in many ways. Not because Azeroth is a light creature. But it has the potential to be one. Also, due to sargeras sword, the machinations of the old gods and xal'atath, the titan machineries, and the roots of Elun'ahir, it seems Azeroth is aligned with most cosmic forces by now, at least to some degree. I'm not sure if i should count the Energy drain from Zoval at the end of Shadowlands as aligning azeroth to death.

He attacks her with death/domination magic during the fight, doesn't he?

[Joshuaj]

It absolutely holds up.

Kyrestia may not have been at the top of her game, but Zovaal and Denathrius were not weakened by any drought, and both of them still havent shown anything that puts them even remotely on the level of a titan. Weve had this discussion before, and it ended when i asked to you provide even a single source for your claims, after which you stopped replying.



So bc maybe a couple of dudes had that discussion with you years ago, you now felt the need to randomly bring it up again like you just won some big, relevant discussion in this thread lel

Denathrius gave parts of his power to the medallions, and ontop of that, he wasn't a fighter, so him getting jumped by the Heroes with Nathria tiersets and covenant amps makes sense. Also, the Jailer is quite literally beyond Titan level lmaooo. Literally everything both in game and outside the game states that a prime Eternal One is akin to a prime Titan. This is not debatable.

And yes, they did discuss it with me. Years later, I won. I told y'all I'd revel in it.

[Nightshade711]

Denathrius gave parts of his power to the medallions, and ontop of that, he wasn't a fighter, so him getting jumped by the Heroes with Nathria tiersets and covenant amps makes sense. Also, the Jailer is quite literally beyond Titan level lmaooo. Literally everything both in game and outside the game states that a prime Eternal One is akin to a prime Titan. This is not debatable.

And yes, they did discuss it with me. Years later, I won. I told y'all I'd revel in it.

Idk… it took us having the most powerful weapons in existence for us to kill a pretty weak titan.
And even then he was able to kill us & would’ve won if we weren’t resurrected by Eonar.

But with the jailer we had… a great attitude? He couldn’t even kill us like Argus could.

[Joshuaj]

Idk… it took us having the most powerful weapons in existence for us to kill a pretty weak titan.
And even then he was able to kill us & would’ve won if we weren’t resurrected by Eonar.

But with the jailer we had… a great attitude? He couldn’t even kill us like Argus could.

We had armor and weapons forged from the Sepulcher of the First Ones, specifically designed to battle beings like Lihuvim, the Prototype Pantheon, etc.

Also, one of the champions fought the soul of Argus at Zereth Mortis and won...so...

[Xilurm]

We had armor and weapons forged from the Sepulcher of the First Ones, specifically designed to battle beings like Lihuvim, the Prototype Pantheon, etc.

Also, one of the champions fought the soul of Argus at Zereth Mortis and won...so...

We fought Argus and lost. The WEAKENED af Titans had to help us. We had 0 help against Zovaal at his full power and he didn't even stand a chance.

A Titan in his prime would squash Zovaal the same way Aman'Thul did when he ripped out that Old God from Azeroth back in the day. He'd be less than a nuisance.

[Nightshade711]

We had armor and weapons forged from the Sepulcher of the First Ones, specifically designed to battle beings like Lihuvim, the Prototype Pantheon, etc.

Also, one of the champions fought the soul of Argus at Zereth Mortis and won...so...

Which were nothing but stat sticks, really. Was there even any slight tangible lore behind any of it?

Meanwhile we had an artifact in Legion which is still propelling the plot forward to this day.

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We fought Argus and lost. The WEAKENED af Titans had to help us. We had 0 help against Zovaal at his full power and he didn't even stand a chance.

A Titan in his prime would squash Zovaal the same way Aman'Thul did when he ripped out that Old God from Azeroth back in the day. He'd be less than a nuisance.

Agreed. Not to mention we didn’t even fight Sargeras for a reason. If Argus was able to one shot us at the peak of our power just imagine Sargeras.

The Jailer is nothing in comparison. Hell, in just one strike titans were able to do significantly more damage to Azeroth than the Jailer could even when he was using first ones technology.

The whole “the jailer is titans++ level of power” was just an attempt to hype him up, yet nothing he did showed us anything remotely close.

[Joshuaj]

Which were nothing but stat sticks, really. Was there even any slight tangible lore behind any of it?

Meanwhile we had an artifact in Legion which is still propelling the plot forward to this day.

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Agreed. Not to mention we didn’t even fight Sargeras for a reason. If Argus was able to one shot us at the peak of our power just imagine Sargeras.

The Jailer is nothing in comparison. Hell, in just one strike titans were able to do significantly more damage to Azeroth than the Jailer could even when he was using first ones technology.

The whole “the jailer is titans++ level of power” was just an attempt to hype him up, yet nothing he did showed us anything remotely close.

There is tangible lore behind the Progenitor tier stuff. All tier sets are canon according to Chronicle, and ontop of that, the Sepulcher armor is described as us "harnessing the power of the First Ones"

"Harness the power of the First Ones by collecting distinctive class armor sets via raids, PvP, or Mythic+ dungeons. The Progenitor armor set will grant your character new abilities based on your specialization, and includes a helm, shoulders, chest, gauntlets, and leggings with 2 set bonuses. The first set bonus is unlocked when two set pieces are equipped, and the second bonus is unlocked when four set pieces are equipped."

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We fought Argus and lost. The WEAKENED af Titans had to help us. We had 0 help against Zovaal at his full power and he didn't even stand a chance.

A Titan in his prime would squash Zovaal the same way Aman'Thul did when he ripped out that Old God from Azeroth back in the day. He'd be less than a nuisance.

Yeah, and Argus' soul proceeded to get clapped by ONE of these heroes in Zereth Mortis, showcasing our growth in power thanks to the Shadowlands amps.

[Nibelheimy]

Oh great we're back here again.