The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Joshuaj]

Oh great we're back here again.

We shouldn't be. I'm right.

[huth]

There is tangible lore behind the Progenitor tier stuff. All tier sets are canon according to Chronicle, and ontop of that, the Sepulcher armor is described as us "harnessing the power of the First Ones"

"Harness the power of the First Ones by collecting distinctive class armor sets via raids, PvP, or Mythic+ dungeons. The Progenitor armor set will grant your character new abilities based on your specialization, and includes a helm, shoulders, chest, gauntlets, and leggings with 2 set bonuses. The first set bonus is unlocked when two set pieces are equipped, and the second bonus is unlocked when four set pieces are equipped."

That's game mechanics. Not lore.

[Nibelheimy]

We shouldn't be. I'm right.

I couldn't care who's right about anything to do with the expansion that finally got Blizzard to admit they're doing a bad job and change things for the better.

The only good thing to come from shadowlands is how it performed so very poorly in nearly every aspect it forced immediate change in a 20 year old game, with a company which is almost Disney like in its ability to fluff itself.

Not even twitter patch WoD gave us that gift.

Thank you bald man.

[Joshuaj]

That's game mechanics. Not lore.

The harness the power of the First Ones part is lore. The specifics regarding stat bonuses aren't, but they are upgrades.

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I couldn't care who's right about anything to do with the expansion that finally got Blizzard to admit they're doing a bad job and change things for the better.

The only good thing to come from shadowlands is how it performed so very poorly in nearly every aspect it forced immediate change in a 20 year old game, with a company which is almost Disney like in its ability to fluff itself.

Not even twitter patch WoD gave us that gift.

Thank you bald man.

Crazy how they admit Shadowlands wasn't good yet they continue double down on everything regarding it lore-wise lmaooo

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Hey, more Ws for me at least.

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Also, @Houle outside of 1 very outdated interview, you have less of a claim to make regarding the Eternal Ones not being Titan level Vs otherwise

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Or need I remind you of the Oribos skybox with the Maw and constant things both in game and out of game stating that the Eternal Ones ARE equal to the Titans?

[Lady Atia]

That's interesting. That actually makes me think it lends credence to that idea the Eternal Ones aren't natural and are tied directly to the Anima Cycle.

Why would a true Death God be weakened by something being rationed or siphoned throughout their own realm? Are Old Gods weaker when they aren't Voidy enough?

They already told us that in Shadowlands .... Eternal Ones's power is directly tied to their realms, and the anima drought basically destroyed part of their realms.

[Darkarath]

The Eternal Ones could be a match, or even more powerful, than current Titans (although I doubt it). The Eternal Ones would be insects against planet-sized Titans. There is nothing that we have seen that makes us believe otherwise. Of course, different peoples and elements within the Shadowlands tell us that the Eternal Ones are the more powerful beings in existence, which is the same thing that any follower of any villain of the franchise always says.

Anyway, this is a pointless discussion, and not relevant at all. Hopefully we will soon get more interesting topics to consider.

[Dracullus]

My previous theory was that Worldsouls don't have an alignment to any force until one or more forces influence them. If the most significant source of influence is order then the worldsoul becomes a Titan.

I heard that theory too and it makes perfect sense. K'aresh was not "devoured" by Dimensius, it BECOME him when Old God influence won. And all these titan installation all over the planet serve exactly same purpose, they just turn soul into Titan instead of Void Lord.

For saga I predict:
- TWW will end with Xalatath successfully corrupting world soul, light infested Sunwell will become last bastion before Azeroth fully transform into Void Lord
- we will completely defeat Void at the end of Midnight and discover true nature of world souls, titan instalation will send distress signal to seat of pantheon
- The Last Titan will be war against Order, kinda reverse Legion, Iridikron will be our ally, in the end Azeroth will be born as first world soul without influence of any power or just fully awake but residue inside planet.

Please guys, just stop.
The last thing we need is more numero uno's in wow lore.

Yep. Occam's razor, it's not coincidence that First Ones and robots starting each force are slowly buried when Metzen returned. At some point they will say Zereth was something unique to Shadowlands, probably when lore will focus on Elune/life side.

[Enrif]

He attacks her with death/domination magic during the fight, doesn't he?

That's why i'm unsure about it. All the other things happend at least for some time, with Sargeras sword definitly infusing into the world. The Jailor fight though? He siphons energy from Azeroth, but does he infuse it with death?

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I heard that theory too and it makes perfect sense. K'aresh was not "devoured" by Dimensius, it BECOME him when Old God influence won. And all these titan installation all over the planet serve exactly same purpose, they just turn soul into Titan instead of Void Lord.

This doesn't hold up if we assume Sargeras fears, a worldsoul turning to the void, has not happend yet, or else his burning crusade would have already failed.
It is more likely that K'aresh didn't had a worldsoul, but the radiant song, or the source of it, might have been devoured. I still assume that the radiant song comes from the beledar, and that K'aresh had something similar, which, turning void could become Dimensius, end then devouring the rest of K'aresh.

[Le Conceptuel]

Oh boy, powerscaling! This is not a totally futile argument based on webs of contradictory hype-building statements and based on an expansion so thoroughly nebulous it's practically impossible to realistically measure anything that happened because the entire thing was a fever dream bordering on a game of Calvinball between the writers!

[Sondrelk]

Oh boy, powerscaling! This is not a totally futile argument based on webs of contradictory hype-building statements and based on an expansion so thoroughly nebulous it's practically impossible to realistically measure anything that happened because the entire thing was a fever dream bordering on a game of Calvinball between the writers!

Ooh, and don't forget stuff like when you get empowered by Azeroth herself at the end of the Zovaal fight. Somehow I doubt that the buff canonically made us exactly 10% more agile and intelligent.

[Lahis]

And in chronicle the horde were responsible for the crucible of storms and freeing Xal’atath if I remember correctly.

Well that was obvious even before the Chronicle. How else would have Nathanos ended up with the blade after those quests?



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Weren't the Horde the first ones to actually build bases across Pandaria tho? Or at least, that's what I thought?

First Alliance forces in the North built an airfield and occupied a Mogu fortress.

Meanwhile the Horde in the south built a base and occupied similar Mogu fortress.

Both did the same thing.

[Merryck]

The artwork doesn't seem very good in the new chronicles books ... not as good as the other ones.

[Le Conceptuel]

Ooh, and don't forget stuff like when you get empowered by Azeroth herself at the end of the Zovaal fight. Somehow I doubt that the buff canonically made us exactly 10% more agile and intelligent.

Indeed, we received the poorly-defined blessing of Azeroth at the tail-end of our battle with the nebulous man who has no concrete definition for his capabilities whatsoever. Zovaal was truly one of the villains of all time.

[Lahis]

There are two world maps. the second has Khaz Algar with "underground spikes"?

When you mouse over Khaz Algar, it shows the version with the caves under it.

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Not yet, but it is almost all hooked up though, so the moment they ship the MP3s it should work in-game, at least.

Wait, Blizz uses mp3 for their audio format?

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Not yet, but it is almost all hooked up though, so the moment they ship the MP3s it should work in-game, at least.

Wait, Blizz uses mp3 for their audio format?

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Oh boy, powerscaling! This is not a totally futile argument based on webs of contradictory hype-building statements and based on an expansion so thoroughly nebulous it's practically impossible to realistically measure anything that happened because the entire thing was a fever dream bordering on a game of Calvinball between the writers!

Just be glad they never put a numerical value on any character's power level. Then this shit would get REALLY tiring.

[Reive]

The artwork doesn't seem very good in the new chronicles books ... not as good as the other ones.

ironically the art is probably the best part of that book.

blizzard keeps cutting corners

[allegrian]

this is what i want from wow: less main narrative about the azeroth version of the avengers and more side quests/world building. the devs are not good at telling long stories, so they should not focus on them

Trying to copy the avengers is the problem. Vanilla had many interesting main quest chains that where way cooler than most "main story" campaigns in wow where they use their W3 characters + Anduin as the avengers. Hell, Kul tiras questing campaign didn't feature any old characters outside of the jaina ending and they were great, do more of that.

[Lady Atia]

Trying to copy the avengers is the problem. Vanilla had many interesting main quest chains that where way cooler than most "main story" campaigns in wow where they use their W3 characters + Anduin as the avengers. Hell, Kul tiras questing campaign didn't feature any old characters outside of the jaina ending and they were great, do more of that.

No it's not. Dragonflights only weak point was that we didn't had "our gang" with us but had to follow the Aspects who were a family of their own, and you will never be part of that. I'm feeling far more home alongside Thrall, Jaina or even Baine, as these are on par and friends with our characters since Legion.

I'm glad we are actually getting our team back with TWW. Stop with the "unknown adventurer" bullshit. I want to be the hero of the story again.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

The artwork doesn't seem very good in the new chronicles books ... not as good as the other ones.

The artists for Volumes 1 + 2 are different than Volumes 3 + 4.

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Also... can people start posting the artwork from Volume 4? Some of it goes hard. Like this one:

[SkyTides]

The titans were the original Gods in the Wow universe - they have always felt mysterious and leagues above us mortals.
Since they added the cosmic forces lore, we now see that each 'power' should have its own titan equivalent.

The eternal ones never felt on the same level as titans while playing shadowlands. Sure they may have been drained of some anima, but the fact we just hang out with some of them in their house kind of downplays their stature.

Are the wild gods really the same level as titans? Who was supposed to be in charge of Disorder before Sargeras took it? It would be cool if some of these deities looked really unique and not just big humans with fancy armour

[Joshuaj]

That's interesting. That actually makes me think it lends credence to that idea the Eternal Ones aren't natural and are tied directly to the Anima Cycle.

Why would a true Death God be weakened by something being rationed or siphoned throughout their own realm? Are Old Gods weaker when they aren't Voidy enough?

Because the Eternal Ones and their realms are linked. It's no different to how a Titan is weakened when they're in fel-saturated areas or when they're siphoned of their order magics and/or essence, or how an Old God is weakened when shackled by Order chain, or how a Void Lord is weakened in the Dark Beyond since it's hard for an embodiment of literal non-existence to thrive there.

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When you mouse over Khaz Algar, it shows the version with the caves under it.

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Wait, Blizz uses mp3 for their audio format?

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Wait, Blizz uses mp3 for their audio format?

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Just be glad they never put a numerical value on any character's power level. Then this shit would get REALLY tiring.

Reminder that putting numbers on power levels is usually stupid and it's ruined by the fact that: A. Characters can hide their true power (Hence making numbers useless regardless), and B. After a certain point, numbers quite literally become irrelevant due to the characters power being so high. Dragon Ball quite literally ended up following this rule after a certain point.

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I heard that theory too and it makes perfect sense. K'aresh was not "devoured" by Dimensius, it BECOME him when Old God influence won. And all these titan installation all over the planet serve exactly same purpose, they just turn soul into Titan instead of Void Lord.

For saga I predict:
- TWW will end with Xalatath successfully corrupting world soul, light infested Sunwell will become last bastion before Azeroth fully transform into Void Lord
- we will completely defeat Void at the end of Midnight and discover true nature of world souls, titan instalation will send distress signal to seat of pantheon
- The Last Titan will be war against Order, kinda reverse Legion, Iridikron will be our ally, in the end Azeroth will be born as first world soul without influence of any power or just fully awake but residue inside planet.



Yep. Occam's razor, it's not coincidence that First Ones and robots starting each force are slowly buried when Metzen returned. At some point they will say Zereth was something unique to Shadowlands, probably when lore will focus on Elune/life side.

"The Progenitor stuff is being buried since Metzens return"

Yeah that's probably a coincidence considering that, since Eternity's End, Blizzard wanted to focus more plotlines that were close to home. And considering the recent double downs of the Progenitors both in this book and Dragonflight, ontop of the fact that Metzen and Danuser worked on the foundations for the Worldsoul Saga before Danuser left, imma assume Metzen didn't bury shit lol

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He attacks her with death/domination magic during the fight, doesn't he?

Yeah. He smacks the shit out of her multiple times, if we assume the Mythic version of this fight is canon of course.

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The Eternal Ones could be a match, or even more powerful, than current Titans (although I doubt it). The Eternal Ones would be insects against planet-sized Titans. There is nothing that we have seen that makes us believe otherwise. Of course, different peoples and elements within the Shadowlands tell us that the Eternal Ones are the more powerful beings in existence, which is the same thing that any follower of any villain of the franchise always says.

Anyway, this is a pointless discussion, and not relevant at all. Hopefully we will soon get more interesting topics to consider.

Reminder that size doesn't mean shit. Thought all the bosses we faced in WoW were evidence enough.

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Besides, we don't know if the Eternal Ones can go planet sized or not. And if they can't, then it's possible the Titans probably can't either in their own realm (assuming an Order Realm exists, of course).