The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Joszef Kiprich]

I agree re: group play, but AFAIK that remains true except for Awakening the Machine, which is frankly a not-very-well-designed event. I don't understand why it appears to be solo-only. It makes no sense. It's not presented as a solo challenge, and it's not even slightly balanced for solo. Like, I walked up to it on my new-80 Blood DK and casually solo the whole 20 waves with no preparation, but I could tell that if I was a DPS, I would have had huge problems, and needed to fully understand the mechanics and so on.



What do you mean by that? The levelling quests were exceptionally well-done by WoW standards imo, but then, whilst people don't acknowledge it, D4 also had a much better actual story/plot than any Diablo other 2.

In general the questing in TWW is a cut above other expansions, I'd say.

I just finished awakening the Machine as DPS by just planting my face on the keyboard as a poorly geared lvl 80, it really isn't that hard.

[Eurhetemec]

3.) A lot of the Arathi are scarred or missing body parts. It's the most noticeable thing about them. The Nerubian conflict ramped up very recently so that either means the Empire itself is extremely violent or in contrast to Player races, their lack of druids and mages is why these injuries can't be reversed.

This is an interesting point. I think the injuries are primarily meant to imply that their fight against the darkness is a really constant thing, that they're in a kind of "fantasy vietnam", even though, as you point out, lore-wise, the Nerubian conflict only went very "hot" more recently.

But it could be there's some implication the Empire itself is pretty violent. We know it's warlike, powerful, oppressive, and intolerant of differences - specifically Faerin mentions the fact that a lot of the company we (the player) keep would not be welcome in the Empire, and I think this is intentionally ambiguous because Blizzard didn't want to have to write a ton of different dialogue based on our races/classes etc., but given they seem to be obsessive Light-worshippers, I suspect Warlocks, DKs, DHes, Undead, and probably quite a few others would be "not okay" there.

As an aside, does anyone else think (and apologies if this has been discussed already) that the appearance of the Empire as a major Light-themed likely-antagonist means that Yrel and her AU Draenor army of the Light are a bit less likely to re-appear? I'd been more or less assuming they would be back at some point in Midnight particularly, but I'm increasingly thinking that the Empire serves such a similar role they probably just won't.

I'm also thinking that predictions re: Midnight are failing to take the Empire into account, and whilst we may well not visit them that expansion, they might well visit us. Probably with a heavily armed invasion fleet and a lot of angry Light-wielders who aren't here to listen to excuses.

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I just finished awakening the Machine as DPS by just planting my face on the keyboard as a poorly geared lvl 80, it really isn't that hard.

Good to hear. Maybe you can just avoid tactics by blowing everything up way faster than a tank.

[Joszef Kiprich]

This is an interesting point. I think the injuries are primarily meant to imply that their fight against the darkness is a really constant thing, that they're in a kind of "fantasy vietnam", even though, as you point out, lore-wise, the Nerubian conflict only went very "hot" more recently.

But it could be there's some implication the Empire itself is pretty violent. We know it's warlike, powerful, oppressive, and intolerant of differences - specifically Faerin mentions the fact that a lot of the company we (the player) keep would not be welcome in the Empire, and I think this is intentionally ambiguous because Blizzard didn't want to have to write a ton of different dialogue based on our races/classes etc., but given they seem to be obsessive Light-worshippers, I suspect Warlocks, DKs, DHes, Undead, and probably quite a few others would be "not okay" there.

As an aside, does anyone else think (and apologies if this has been discussed already) that the appearance of the Empire as a major Light-themed likely-antagonist means that Yrel and her AU Draenor army of the Light are a bit less likely to re-appear? I'd been more or less assuming they would be back at some point in Midnight particularly, but I'm increasingly thinking that the Empire serves such a similar role they probably just won't.

I'm also thinking that predictions re: Midnight are failing to take the Empire into account, and whilst we may well not visit them that expansion, they might well visit us. Probably with a heavily armed invasion fleet and a lot of angry Light-wielders who aren't here to listen to excuses.

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Good to hear. Maybe you can just avoid tactics by blowing everything up way faster than a tank.

Yeah no need for tactics. Kill pylons first then the rest. And my dps isn't that good, only wave 19 gets tricky.

[Ersula]

I'm hoping the Rootlands & Goblin tier are the same. I'm hoping for fending off Goblins from attacking the rootlands. Mainly because we've already had too many zones whos theme is just "nature." Give me a deforestation zone.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I am just excited to see what they have in store. Rootlands is whatever to me, it doesn't destroy the expansion but it may dry things up for PR/Hype.

Undermine would be gangbusters hype but I again have withheld any thoughts that GoblinRaid isn't just a Venture Co. Versus Harronir in Rootlands Raid.

[Telogrus]

I'm hoping the Rootlands & Goblin tier are the same. I'm hoping for fending off Goblins from attacking the rootlands. Mainly because we've already had too many zones whos theme is just "nature." Give me a deforestation zone.

If Undermine isn't a patch in TWW, idk when else we'd get it. Elun'ahir is already distinct enough from other nature zones by being entirely underground and nothing but roots.

[Cheezits]

Sooooo... turns out Kaheti Nerubians are appearing at the embassies.

https://twitter.com/HjalmarRambles/s...57203620593799

You don't think...?

EDIT: Nevermind, this is apparently a troll created by using a bugged item.

[Eurhetemec]

Sooooo... turns out Kaheti Nerubians are appearing at the embassies.

https://twitter.com/HjalmarRambles/s...57203620593799

You don't think...?

80% chance it's just Blizzard trolling and/or we'll just see Kaheti Nerubians as NPCs in places outside the expansion, but nothing more than that. 20% chance they're doing something more interesting.

[Zardas]

If Undermine isn't a patch in TWW, idk when else we'd get it.

In the Undermine expansion, of course.

[Telogrus]

In the Undermine expansion, of course.

I don’t think that Undermine/Kezan are strong enough to carry an expansion

[Eldryth]

I don’t think that Undermine/Kezan are strong enough to carry an expansion

I agree that it wouldn't be enough by itself, but it would make a great zone(s) and Horde capitol in a South Seas expansion. I know BFA already touched on that theme a bit but there's still room to make it work. Could have Kezan, Plunder Isle, and Tel Abim at the very least.

[huth]

I know exactly what its about. The thing is, you're dealing with someone who used to live there and has his own memories to draw on in addition to the others, or. Occuleth.

No, you don't. If he had done that, his experiment would have been a failure.

but this is a brand new type of portal magic that's different to how he operates.

You're making a whole lot of assumptions there. All of the magic involved may well be known to the mages we have available. Wenren had to create them from scratch because he was just an apprentice who hadn't learned portal magic when the expedition came to Hallowfall and all their other mages died in that event.

[Lady Atia]

I don’t think that Undermine/Kezan are strong enough to carry an expansion

If "Ironforge 2.0 + Azjol Nerub but 17 years later" can carry it's own expansion, there really aren't any limits for what they can do. And from the way they were talking about the "next 30 years of Warcraft" I doubt they will waste expansion level content like Avaloren on a patch again. That said, Undermine would fit TWW and would be a nice sub plot, and there really aren't any other hooks for it besides "azerite and the void balrog under it". Besides that, I'm not sure if we really need another underground expansion again so it makes sense to do it here, hopefully as fully fleshed out zone on par with Hearthstone's Gadgetzan. Would love to see lots of different races there aswell as Shadowland's brokers since they made a deal with Gallywally.

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I agree that it wouldn't be enough by itself, but it would make a great zone(s) and Horde capitol in a South Seas expansion. I know BFA already touched on that theme a bit but there's still room to make it work. Could have Kezan, Plunder Isle, and Tel Abim at the very least.

Tel Abim should be it's own expansion, they could easily go with an arabic styled continent, something we didn't really had besides maybe Uldum and Tanaris. Would make a great "holiday breather" like MoP back than.

[micwini]

I guess you technically could, but like, that's on you. You never had to "run through empty zones" in D4, nor do you in TWW. Just follow the MSQ. If you want to break off from it and do something else, that's up to you.

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Loads of armies have been commanded by people aged 16-30. The idea that armies are always commanded by grizzled generals is pure fantasy. Do you need me to go through history and provide examples?

What age do you think Napoleon became a general for example? He was born in 1769. He became a General in 1793.

He was 24.

That was not atypical, either, and that was in a more professional army than many! Throughout history, people aged 16-30 have very frequently ended up commanding military formations of various sizes, often pretty damn large ones. Alexander the Great was 20 when started leading the Macedonians and was already a better general than any of the older men working for him.

Like I said, that's the reason they are famous. Survivorship bias.
Most leaders have always been aged/experienced.
You're naming a few examples, but it isn't and has never been the norm.

[BaumanKing]

Damn, the end campaign feels a bit unpolished. Thrall praising Turalyon for his valor and leadership skills is bizarre, especially right after Turalyon's racist remarks towards Geya'rah. Same with Kurdran cracking jokes about Dalaran, as if he hadn't lost an old friend there. It's so strange that no one but Alleria even talks about Khadgar.

[micwini]

I don’t think that Undermine/Kezan are strong enough to carry an expansion

Can easily combined with some other islands we know exists + a ship sailing feature. BOOM -> Expansion.

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Damn, the end campaign feels a bit unpolished. Thrall praising Turalyon for his valor and leadership skills is bizarre, especially right after Turalyon's racist remarks towards Geya'rah. Same with Kurdran cracking jokes about Dalaran, as if he hadn't lost an old friend there. It's so strange that no one but Alleria even talks about Khadgar.

Worst part is that the cutscenes are missing voices. Kurdran joking about dala was a bit weird ye, so soon especially.
I'm glad they still have some A v H. Whether people care about it or not, it's kind of a big part of the soul of the game. I miss when you'd go to new continents/areas as either horde / alliance instead of unnamed expedition #50

[Joszef Kiprich]

The only thing I miss, is that the Horde and Alliance campaigns are exactly the same. BFA wasn't a very good expac but at least it got my to play both sides.

[Eurhetemec]

Like I said, that's the reason they are famous. Survivorship bias.
Most leaders have always been aged/experienced.
You're naming a few examples, but it isn't and has never been the norm.

You've named zero generals so far, so you have no point and no argument.

"Most leaders have always been aged/experienced."

Oh are we changing back from generals to just "leaders"? Because that's an ever weaker position. The reality is that whilst younger generals might be a minority, they've never been uncommon, and I don't even know what you think you're arguing re: "the norm". Literally no leader in any Warcraft game has ever been "the norm". Not a single one!

[BaumanKing]

Like I said, that's the reason they are famous. Survivorship bias.
Most leaders have always been aged/experienced.
You're naming a few examples, but it isn't and has never been the norm.

There are even in-universe examples. Khadgar was 19 years old during the Second War, and Turalyon was about the same age. Both quickly became high-ranking members of the Alliance army, with Turalyon even becoming a high general after Lothar's death.

[micwini]

You've named zero generals so far, so you have no point and no argument.

"Most leaders have always been aged/experienced."

Oh are we changing back from generals to just "leaders"? Because that's an ever weaker position. The reality is that whilst younger generals might be a minority, they've never been uncommon, and I don't even know what you think you're arguing re: "the norm". Literally no leader in any Warcraft game has ever been "the norm". Not a single one!

Leaders of armies. Learn to read between the lines. Why would I change what we're talking about?

I replied to someone that said "leaders in the past were most often young', which is just flat out wrong.
Im saying 'most generals/leaders of armies were older/experienced' and you just said 'they might have been the minority'. That is the same thing
You seem to be arguing with an argument that no one here has made.

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There are even in-universe examples. Khadgar was 19 years old during the Second War, and Turalyon was about the same age. Both quickly became high-ranking members of the Alliance army, with Turalyon even becoming a high general after Lothar's death.

These are ingame. Obv different. The person I initially replied to mentioned 'most leaders in the old ages', referring to real world history.