The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/world-o...e-order-333496

So the reason the Primalists have no lore in game is because... it was saved for a book? I thought they said they wouldn't be doing this anymore.

I think the implication of what they stated was that only side stuff will be exclusive to books, not core story stuff. So I guess the Primalists are just a small side thing, like gnolls or sand trolls.

[Kiivar86]

It’s not just keeping her locked up though it’s actively using her against her will in multiple ways. If it was just her locked a way for a bit that’s one thing but making us complicate in the things the dragonmaw did to her has to be some of the lowest things in wow.

I was more trying to say that its not us helping enslave her as she's already enslaved at that point. Its not like we're actually capturing her the first time around. It is, though, us helping keep her enslaved, which isn't much better, I'll admit.

Honestly I'm not normally one to have issue with dark things (killing Amber for example, and she's a character I particularly liked, too) but this does just feel...much. But at the same time it does show the whole Bronze's "we have to keep the timeline as it is" thing. But that then raises further questions like "so we gotta make sure this happens but you guys can't go back and like, shove the Mag'har orcs from AU Draenor back into the portal?"

Makes it feel kind of pick-and-choose-y.

Could be South Seas? Undermine/Kezan, Tel'Abim, Plunder Isle etc. Would explain the robots and the triceratops could be from a South Seas island. The titan facility Uldaz could be located somewhere in the South Seas too.

Again there are time rifts that these are all likely originating from. There's a robot Azeroth, a Titan utopia Azeroth, etc. I wouldn't look overly much into it.

And as for the book, if nothing else I dig the artwork.

[huth]

those "terrible things that didn't need to happen" are part of what made wow interesting. Dragonflight doesn't have any of those moments and it's the most boring expansion ever made.



Are you helping the orcs chain her? are you helping he consort with the mating process? No. then you're not "actively" helping her rape and enslavement. the focus of the quest is moving the demon soul to it's right place. what happens to alexstrasza is just one of many consequences



It does tho. i can't understand how people can feel so viscerally upset by a fictional dragon getting raped in a fictional work. it's not the first nor the last work where something brutal happens. people just need to touch grass.

It should also be considered that the whole basic concept of these quests is that this stuff does in fact need to happen.

Jaina just unconcious of the consequences turning people into sheep might seem whimsical, but only if you don't consider the deeper consequences of turning a human into a sheep. There's no indication it's just temporary.

[huth]

I was more trying to say that its not us helping enslave her as she's already enslaved at that point. Its not like we're actually capturing her the first time around. It is, though, us helping keep her enslaved, which isn't much better, I'll admit.

Honestly I'm not normally one to have issue with dark things (killing Amber for example, and she's a character I particularly liked, too) but this does just feel...much. But at the same time it does show the whole Bronze's "we have to keep the timeline as it is" thing. But that then raises further questions like "so we gotta make sure this happens but you guys can't go back and like, shove the Mag'har orcs from AU Draenor back into the portal?"

Makes it feel kind of pick-and-choose-y.

Their charge is to prevent changes to the main timeline's past. Not the present or future. AU orcs coming over had no impact on the past.

In fact, they'd now have to stop you from trying to prevent those events.

[huth]

Is that literally the case? Dragonflight: War between Aspects and Primalists.

For that matter, the whole Alexstrasza thing was literally about getting dragons to use for war.

[ChronoSul]

those "terrible things that didn't need to happen" are part of what made wow interesting. Dragonflight doesn't have any of those moments and it's the most boring expansion ever made.



Are you helping the orcs chain her? are you helping he consort with the mating process? No. then you're not "actively" helping her rape and enslavement. the focus of the quest is moving the demon soul to it's right place. what happens to alexstrasza is just one of many consequences



It does tho. i can't understand how people can feel so viscerally upset by a fictional dragon getting raped in a fictional work. it's not the first nor the last work where something brutal happens. people just need to touch grass.

I mean yes? The Dragon Soul was WHY they were able to chain her thus u are helping with that process.

[Scyth]

This may have already been discussed, however - going off the War of the Scaleborn synopsis, it seems Vyranoth is the more peaceful leaning Incarnate.

Perhaps its likely she will defect this expansion? Whether that means she joins the reoccurring cast of characters going forward, or killed by Iridikron this expansion is another discussion.

The synopsis definitely makes it obvious she at least used to be the more peaceful one out of the 4 Incarnates. However on the poster she is shown fighting Alex, so who knows what happens between them.
Maybe she learnt something the Aspects were keeping away from them or Iridikron lied to them.

Would have been nice to get this book before DF though and not almost at the end of the xpac.

[Super Dickmann]

The Twitter outrage has reached so massive levels already that Blizz will never again go anywhere near that plot point.

Will probably cut Grim Batol from Cataclysm Classic at this point.

I am more in shock that it hasn't been retconned already. But yeah, a Blizzard cave is completely inevitable unless I missed it and they caved already.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly if they had any sense they would swap it and make it so the dragon maw weren’t going to lose the demon soul and we have to go in to make sure it’s destroyed so Alex can then break free and slay the orcs.

No, that's a completely different vibe. The whole point of a quest like this and why it and the Amber quest being next to quests where you help give Misha to Rexxar and so forth is, likely unintentionally, a very inspired way to sell what defending the timeline actually implies. It wouldn't just involve ensuring things don't get worse, it's just as much making sure things don't go better. There's no way in which Alex's rape going on slightly shorter has knock-on effects, but if your job is to prevent any disruptions, you still can't let it happen. It would be a soul crushing gig unless you get desensitized.

@Le Conceptuel

Sadly, both in the response it has gotten thus far from the Twitterati but also in people going "they should cut it, but for different" reasons you've basically condemned the chances of Blizzard dipping their toes into this kind of theme in the near future. If you can't get away with exploring this implication of the setting in a 2 minute sidequest, you would never dare bring anything close in content to the main story.

Struggle cuddles aside, I'm getting mixed signals with Vyranoth. I bet serious money earlier that she'd turn good, so I'm not surprised they're pushing this, but then again, she seems aware of the void and on board with Iridikron's plan in what we've seen of her character, so either (likely) there's some miscommunication going on or they might end up with her sticking around as an Odyn like pseudo-neutral character to up the roster of recurring side villains. A big ice dragon is a very different vibe in terms of other returnees like Azshara and Denathrius.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I am more in shock that it hasn't been retconned already. But yeah, a Blizzard cave is completely inevitable unless I missed it and they caved already.

In my opinion many of these outraged people on twitter are so freakin selfish, acting like they're only ones that something happened to them IRL, so everything has to be their way so they don't feel uncomfortable.

You have adult people having mental breakdowns over a quest that is fitting and actually shows more painful stuff that bronze dragonflights has to deal with and is faithful to what happened in the past, optional quest that you can skip.

Like what these people do IRL? sit in their houses allday, thinking that the fictional world and their characters are real?

Soon WoW will be only this

[Super Dickmann]

In my opinion many of these outraged people on twitter are so freakin selfish, acting like they're only ones that something happened to them IRL, so everything has to be their way so they don't feel uncomfortable.

It's pointless to argue with them except for sport, since it's a zero-sum question. Either a story in this genre can include subject matter, in this case rape, like this and treat it like it does everything else or it cannot address it all or when it does prostrate itself in message mongering. The game gradually took the latter route with its own premise - i.e violence and war and it has unversally suffered from it.

Honestly, that there was even enough devs to get this off the ground and put this quest in is an encouraging sign or would be if I had any hope they're not about to be crucified on a scale-model of Chromie.

[micwini]

In my opinion many of these outraged people on twitter are so freakin selfish, acting like they're only ones that something happened to them IRL, so everything has to be their way so they don't feel uncomfortable.

You have adult people having mental breakdowns over a quest that is fitting and actually shows more painful stuff that bronze dragonflights has to deal with and is faithful to what happened in the past, optional quest that you can skip.

Like what these people do IRL? sit in their houses allday, thinking that the fictional world and their characters are real?

Soon WoW will be only this

It is twitter. Woke people are so insecure they have to project all their insecurities on other people and the world must conform to their strict and harmless worldview. The sooner platforms like twitter are gone, the better.

I'm personally hoping a return to form next exoansion tone wise like they did with MoP -> WoD. DF is indeed are lot too far into MLP territory.

[Skildar]

It's pointless to argue with them except for sport, since it's a zero-sum question. Either a story in this genre can include subject matter, in this case rape, like this and treat it like it does everything else or it cannot address it all or when it does prostrate itself in message mongering. The game gradually took the latter route with its own premise - i.e violence and war and it has unversally suffered from it.

Honestly, that there was even enough devs to get this off the ground and put this quest in is an encouraging sign or would be if I had any hope they're not about to be crucified on a scale-model of Chromie.

I'm not so sure it is a zero sum question. There could be an option stating that "I'm not able to be a part of this, you need to find another hero Chromie"

It's ok to pussy out of these situations, the game have had more little moments like these lately and it should definitely be ok to include more when there welcomed

[ImTheMizAwesome]

It is twitter. Woke people are so insecure they have to project all their insecurities on other people and the world must conform to their strict and harmless worldview. The sooner platforms like twitter are gone, the better.

I'm personally hoping a return to form next exoansion tone wise like they did with MoP -> WoD. DF is indeed are lot too far into MLP territory.

I don't think they will, like i don't hate this expansion story but don't love that much either, besides certain questlines - I just feel like my orc warrior is just walking and shitting rainbow balls of happiness and friendship and i don't even want faction conflicts, but man going from DF to playing diablo 4 it really felt like i jumped from my little pony(dragons) adventure to something i would like to see in wow when it comes to certain story themes and atmosphere.

Edit: Adding, i don't think they will do next expansion MoP -> WoD tone wise, i would welcome something in the middle of these two too, anything that isn't "Hey i know i did things wrong, but i will be better" almost every npc like in DF.

[micwini]

I'm not so sure it is a zero sum question. There could be an option stating that "I'm not able to be a part of this, you need to find another hero Chromie"

It's ok to pussy out of these situations, the game have had more little moments like these lately and it should definitely be ok to include more when there welcomed

That option is already implemented. You can click "Decline" when you are offered the quest.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

That option is already implemented. You can click "Decline" when you are offered the quest.

Ye and if quest rewards some loot, you can just skip quest and think it never happened - it's fictional world, noone gets hurt in real life when your fictional character does something in the video game or something happens to NPC.

[Skildar]

That option is already implemented. You can click "Decline" when you are offered the quest.

sure but declining a quest inside a quest chain prevents you from moving forward and have access to the rest of the story content. You could also decline the quest to track Saurfang, but they added the option to foght for him instead.

In the current situation they could add a simple text option to jump the quests where you doom Alexstrasza and get to the rest of the questline.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think they will, like i don't hate this expansion story but don't love that much either, besides certain questlines - I just feel like my orc warrior is just walking and shitting rainbow balls of happiness and friendship and i don't even want faction conflicts, but man going from DF to playing diablo 4 it really felt like i jumped from my little pony(dragons) adventure to something i would like to see in wow when it comes to certain story themes and atmosphere.

Edit: Adding, i don't think they will do next expansion MoP -> WoD tone wise, i would welcome something in the middle of these two too, anything that isn't "Hey i know i did things wrong, but i will be better" almost every npc like in DF.

It's a bit overbearing how much all npcs and clans, structures has to acknowledge they want to do better or to clean the legacy of their people. What the shit, you guyz did the shit you did because it was your choice then. Now I'm longing for warhammer style factions where they do shitty things because that's the right thing to do for them and they don't care that a bunny was hurt in the process

[Gielnik2]

Soon WoW will be only this

[My Little Pony video]

I'm not sure if you're making an in-joke but the My Little Pony cartoon you posted DOES explore slavery. In some of the episodes the characters go back in time and explore an alternate timeline where the villains won and they find all their friends brainwashed and enslaved in chains.

So, uhh.... bad example? You could say My Little Pony is more mature than WoW with this lol

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I'm not sure if you're making an in-joke but the My Little Pony cartoon you posted DOES explore slavery. In some of the episodes the characters go back in time and explore an alternate timeline where the villains won and they find all their friends brainwashed and enslaved in chains.

So, uhh.... bad example? You could say My Little Pony is more mature than WoW with this lol

Nah, i was actually ignorant with this i admit, since that's what MLP for person outside that world looks like, but you brought interesting fact and seeing a theme like that actually happens in MLP now i wonder even more, why some people are outraged about this new quest in wow.

It was also more about the visual theme of colorful, singing of friendships and happiness that happens in DF, that makes me feel like i just walk around and shit with rainbows.

[Super Dickmann]

I'm not so sure it is a zero sum question. There could be an option stating that "I'm not able to be a part of this, you need to find another hero Chromie"

It's ok to pussy out of these situations, the game have had more little moments like these lately and it should definitely be ok to include more when there welcomed

The least intrusive change would be to let you reroll the quest, but as it's a side quest for optional loot it's not really a major issue. In general it's a slippery slope in terms of how objectionable something has to be relative to how mandatory it is for progress. I remember back in Wrath the whole drama about the Kirin Tor torture quest, which was unavoidable if you wanted to proceed with the story.

The whole bit you bring up in your follow-up post re: How everyone has to 'overcome' their legacy leads into it. Much like how the Kyrian adjustment made them more boring, a change wherein we help Alex or adjust things on her behalf or find a cop out for Amber diminishes the point the quest is going for and waters down the vibe we're told. There's a reason that the Infinite Flight dungeons, with the exception of Durnholde, are about preventing things that are objectionable - killing Medivh, stopping Arthas at Stratholme, etc. The mentality of the Flight is implicitly a lot better communicated when it's communicated how your day job doesn't just involve fixing minor hiccups in Jaina's upbringing but not only standing by but assisting in vile events taking place because they already happened and it isn't your purview to decide.

[micwini]

It is a fantasy game. Why is it OK for Diablo to be dark AF, but it is a problem when wow sometimes does it nowadays, eventhough they've always done it?