The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I'm confused: why are people claiming that we would be "ok" if one or 2 of the cosmic forces held dominion over Azeroth?

We, quite literally, have the lore established of all of the cosmic forces needed to be kept in check. Not one holding more power than the other, as they are all wrestling control against each other.

[MauroDiogo]

Hehe, reminds me of my fake Voidstorm leak.

Anyway, I like the correlation and it sounds plausible. Lots of lore has come from all over the Warcraft franchise, even Hearthstone.

I would love the idea of some type of ancient guardian watching over Azeroth for aeons.

Crazy idea but imagine if Elune is the Naaru, and she's been doing her best from her location to influence things on Azeroth.

By having Elun'Ahir nearby she might be able to tap into the Emerald Dream, and the proximity to the worldsoul could be why she was able to swim in the Well of Eternity, since it was liquid azerite.

Might also be why she annoys Xal'atath so much. If she was there from the start, acting as a final bulwark to protect the worldsoul.

Might not explain why there's an "Elunaria" planet, though, or why the White Lady is seen as Elune.

I completely agree and feel like we might see a link between Elune and the Naaru. She is represented as the Moon but a lot of themes and new lore the last expansions is how there's a duality to a lot of these forces.
One doesn't exist without the other. Void <-> Light
But there must always be Balance between them or the other ceases to exist.

I never researched or theorised too deep into it but at times I have the idea of Xal'Atath working for a dark entity that represents the Dark part of Elune, while the Light and Naaru represent the Light.

At least in two different interviews, Maria Hamilton, makes a comment like "Kind of like a Sun isn't it?" when they are discussing the flora in Hallowfall facing this source of light. Which could be nothing, but I think she interjects just to say that in one of the times? I have to go back and rewatch it.

The same way that in one of the interviews they are talking about Xal'atath being evil and she's like "Is she though?" with a doubting look on her face. But again, it could be just her messing around to makes us question Xal's motives even more. Theorising is fun.

I'm confused: why are people claiming that we would be "ok" if one or 2 of the cosmic forces held dominion over Azeroth?

We, quite literally, have the lore established of all of the cosmic forces needed to be kept in check. Not one holding more power than the other, as they are all wrestling control against each other.

Absolutely. Blizzard has been preparing us over time for this concept. And I think that's the story they are trying to tell with the Titans too.

Everything in moderation. A Balance in all things. And I think this is how the Saga ends. Because at the end Azeroth will most likely not be happy with what the Titans are doing and will reject their mission of enforcing Order/the Arcane on things.

Aman'Thul threw an hissy fit just because Eonar planted a world tree that would (in his eyes) create chaos. Because he saw that as Eonar infusing Azeroth with more Life and it goes against their totalitarian mission of Order above all.

And when you have all these entities trying to corrupt and infuse Azeroth towards their essences/planes, something's bound to burst and say it's enough and push back against it all.
Which is also why I think we might have a "We (players) are all Azeroth" moment towards the end of the Saga after Azeroth helps us push back agains the Titans. And sort of explains why players have all sorts of different classes/powers. It's just the manifestation of all these difference essences Azeroth has been infused with over time, which then get passed onto us in our creation?

Okay, time to go have lunch and take my tinfoil hat off... for now.

PS: All my theorising comes down to one thing - For the sole reason and a very vain attempt at passing the time because I'm way too excited about the prospect of playable Haranir. That's all I'd like from Blizz. I'll be happy with whatever route the Lore goes after that. Even if it turns out this is all just a simulated universe within the Muppets universe or some other bs.
I'll gladly go raid Mythic Kermit the Frog if I could just do it as an Haranir.

[Sondrelk]

I think people are way overthinking the whole thing here. When Archaedas talks about the giant crystals we see one that looks almost exactly like the bottom half of the Beledar.
Obviously there will be some kind of twist to why the Beledar is ligth themed and shifts into shadow like a Naaru. But that doesnt mean it has to be a Naaru ship, or something like that.
It's obviously not just a huge chunk of Azerite, otherwise the crystals would have simply been referred to as Azerite. It is something more than just that, but still something in a similar vein.

I am with whoever said the crystals will be explained as the reason we have Leyline nexuses. All of them will be linked in some fashion, similar to how Azerite worked. And it would explain why Xal'atath seemed to focus on ensuring the Beledar stayed dark, as that would in turn influence all the other crystals around Azeroth, creating an eternal midnight as the magical energies of Azeroth all turn into Shadow.

[Khaza-R]

I'm not so sure on that, the Xenedar split from the Genedar after the Naaru arrive on Argus and leave to rescue Velen and the Draenei from the planet. I don't think it would be possible for it to have been made of chunks of Argus Worldsoul essence because the ship existed (to our knowledge anyway) before arrival on Argus.

Well its crash spawns shards of Argunite that are the same color as the Xenedar and the flavor text reads born from the crash site of the Xenedar on Argus.

So idk, would definitely seem like that's what its made up of to me.

[Kiivar86]

From the point of view of players, I think they could considered better than the three opposing forces.

For one, they haven't sought to destroy and defile as the rest of them do. Instead, they're focused on building things, creation, and beauty.

But their success is also inherently tied to ours.

If Life controls Azeroth, it's all good. We thrive.

If Light controls Azeroth, it's all good. We thrive.

If Order controls Azeroth, it's all good. We thrive.

If Death, Disorder, or Shadow control Azeroth, it becomes a literal hellscape (if it even survives) and everything on it is either corrupt, dead, or suffering.

Now, granted, there's nuance. Order and Light tend to be too controlling and their adherents rather zealous. Sometimes they see us as ants, unimportant in the larger scheme of things. Life can also be rather chaotic in its ambition to spread, as seen with the Botani.

But there's no question that three forces are more destructive.

We see what an Azeroth controlled by Order (and Life at the same time) looks like - Ulderoth, and it sure isn't a good place for us. Its implied mortal beings living to adulthood is "impressive", so that means they tend to die pretty young. Wildlife is noted as being extremely aggressive too, to the point of endangering and harming the watchers.

[Nymrohd]

I think Warcraft Order is more about Civilization than a D&D notion of Law. Titans want everything to have a place in a society moreso than they want blind obedience. They want stable structures.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

We see what an Azeroth controlled by Order (and Life at the same time) looks like - Ulderoth, and it sure isn't a good place for us. Its implied mortal beings living to adulthood is "impressive", so that means they tend to die pretty young. Wildlife is noted as being extremely aggressive too, to the point of endangering and harming the watchers.

Given that it only mentions the Yaungol wouldn’t the implication be that we never had the well of eternity and the evolution it brought or the Mogu and the like messing with mortal races.

It could very well be that the timeline is only meant to show that if the titans never messed up with the well and stayed on Azeroth so minions like the Mogu didn’t go rouge mortal life would have never progressed from its most basic stages, which wouldn’t apply to our timeline.

[Nymrohd]

We see what an Azeroth controlled by Order (and Life at the same time) looks like - Ulderoth, and it sure isn't a good place for us. Its implied mortal beings living to adulthood is "impressive", so that means they tend to die pretty young. Wildlife is noted as being extremely aggressive too, to the point of endangering and harming the watchers.

We can also see what an Azeroth controlled by Order looks like by looking at everything that happened up to Tyr's death and Odyn's imprisonment and it was nothing like Ulderoth.

[Kiivar86]

Given that it only mentions the Yaungol wouldn’t the implication be that we never had the well of eternity and the evolution it brought or the Mogu and the like messing with mortal races.

It could very well be that the timeline is only meant to show that if the titans never messed up with the well and stayed on Azeroth so minions like the Mogu didn’t go rouge mortal life would have never progressed from its most basic stages, which wouldn’t apply to our timeline.

Highly possible too yes.

We can also see what an Azeroth controlled by Order looks like by looking at everything that happened up to Tyr's death and Odyn's imprisonment and it was nothing like Ulderoth.

I would argue that that Azeroth was not controlled by Order. Order was taking hold but it obviously wasn't fully in control because of the various events going on with the Old God minions and the like.

Ulderoth meanwhile is explicitly where the titans saw their experiments through to completion. It is an Azeroth completely in the grasp of Order (and Life)

[Auxis]

So, what exactly were the keepers (any of them) doing post-sundering? An extremely significant piece of the Manifold gets ripped apart from its energy sources, and apparently no one came to try and save it? Poor Earthen really were just left for dead.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Just caught up with the new lore revealed this week about Beledar, the Manifold and this new "Acclimation" being revealed.

So we're definitely about to find another Beledar-like crystal in the next patch? Probably in/around/near Undermine?

Or perhaps one in the alleged "Rootlands" area?

Also... I'm starting to suspect the real source for the Arathi Empire's "Sacred Flame" might just be... azerite.

[Sondrelk]

So, what exactly were the keepers (any of them) doing post-sundering? An extremely significant piece of the Manifold gets ripped apart from its energy sources, and apparently no one came to try and save it? Poor Earthen really were just left for dead.

From the looks of it I would imagine that they were too rigid to even consider going outside their parameters and fix stuff right outside their assigned area.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

So, what exactly were the keepers (any of them) doing post-sundering? An extremely significant piece of the Manifold gets ripped apart from its energy sources, and apparently no one came to try and save it? Poor Earthen really were just left for dead.

They were all geting screwed by Loken no? Mim got killed and remade imperfectly, Thor’s wife was killed and he started a war with the grants, Hodir got captured, Ra captured, Tyr dead, Odyn being stupid in his hall.

And Freya was just hanging out with trees and animals I guess.

[Auxis]

From the point of view of players, I think they could considered better than the three opposing forces.

For one, they haven't sought to destroy and defile as the rest of them do. Instead, they're focused on building things, creation, and beauty.

But their success is also inherently tied to ours.

If Life controls Azeroth, it's all good. We thrive.

If Light controls Azeroth, it's all good. We thrive.

If Order controls Azeroth, it's all good. We thrive.

If Death, Disorder, or Shadow control Azeroth, it becomes a literal hellscape (if it even survives) and everything on it is either corrupt, dead, or suffering.

Now, granted, there's nuance. Order and Light tend to be too controlling and their adherents rather zealous. Sometimes they see us as ants, unimportant in the larger scheme of things. Life can also be rather chaotic in its ambition to spread, as seen with the Botani.

But there's no question that three forces are more destructive.

Light and Life each nearly killed Draenor.

Life controlled Draenor prior to Aggramar finding it. It was being taken over by a relentless infestation of Sporemounds. Had Aggramar not intervened, it would have all been Botani (you know, the life forms that infest orcs with thorns and vines and turn them into living plant zombies?).

Light, on the other hand, choked Draenor of life to the point that the planet was on the verge of dying by the time the Mag'har recruitment came around.

Everything in balance is ideal. If anything tips too far or takes over completely, it's inherently not good for the planet. I'd debate if what the Titans were doing was actually complete Order take over or if it was a mix. They made use of Life, Elements, and Order in the Ordering of Azeroth.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

From the looks of it I would imagine that they were too rigid to even consider going outside their parameters and fix stuff right outside their assigned area.

The keepers seem far from rigid just look at Oydn who put his pride above his duty and made the halls of valour, Tyr opposing Loken he though he should have been in command, Thor starting a war for personal revenge.

They have there duty and think highly of it but they are very much free willed people.

[Ersula]

The keepers seem far from rigid just look at Oydn who put his pride above his duty and made the halls of valour, Tyr opposing Loken he though he should have been in command, Thor starting a war for personal revenge.

They have there duty and think highly of it but they are very much free willed people.

How can we be sure that was them expressing free will rather than their individual programming parameters being too narrow?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

How can we be sure that was them expressing free will rather than their individual programming parameters being too narrow?

How can we be sure orcs aren’t following the programming of the Gronn passed down or humans aren’t following the programming of the Titan forged?

We can’t ever be sure but it’s safe to assume the titans didn’t want the keepers turning on each other fucking odd for ego trips or starting wars with there other creations over lost wife’s.

[Raetary]

We see what an Azeroth controlled by Order (and Life at the same time) looks like - Ulderoth, and it sure isn't a good place for us. Its implied mortal beings living to adulthood is "impressive", so that means they tend to die pretty young. Wildlife is noted as being extremely aggressive too, to the point of endangering and harming the watchers.

I know Ulderoth is the "titan utopia" timeline, but the fact that it was so dominated by the planets wildlife and nature, i would rather argue that it's more a timeline dominated specifically by Eonar, rather than something Aman'thul would organize and approve of.

It's less a "Ordered Titan utopia" and more a "What if Eonar went ham on Azeroth".

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Well like I've been saying, neither force is ideal for us if it goes to 100%. But the three traditionally good forces are still a mile better than the "bad" ones between 1-99%.

Being overtly "bad" in your appearance and approach is no more "bad" than portraying benevolence in order to achieve your goals. It's just another means of achieving them.

I wonder how the eredar would have responded to Sargeras if he appeared to them in his true form, revealing his true intentions at the jump?

All cosmic forces want the same thing. How they go about it is different but all stem from the same reasoning. None of them are "traditionally" good. Only some of them have had sway over larger portions of the universe first.

[elbleuet]

Confirmed : she appears as the leader of the kirin tor on the ptr and speaks with kirin tor apprentices :
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Kirin_...Anniversary%29