The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Telogrus]

The logic is that Rootlands would be too similar to the Emerald Dream without a gimmick. And that Undermine (at least in my mind) feels unlikely to be a full patch if Rootlands is also a full patch.
Therefore: Combine the two into the very recognizable Classic WoW theme of Goblins exploiting an area of its natural resources and funneling them into Undermine.

Of course, there is nothing saying we couldnt get both Undermine AND Rootlands in their own separate major patch. It just feels unlikely when given the Beledar is a much more tempting future patch zone. And the alternative to the Rootlands and Undermine conondrum is that one of them gets side billing as a minor patch akin to Forbidden Reach or just a Megadungeon.

I think that Undermine is 99% likely to be the zone for 11.1. Xal’atath will strike some type of bargain with at least one of the Cartels, and it’s not uncommon for the Season 2 patches to deviate a bit from the main story. For example, Sarkareth was pretty much irrelevant to the Incarnates storyline. And like I said, there’s no better time to use the Undermine than in the subterranean expansion.

And then 11.2 will most likely be either Beledar or Elun’ahir. Maybe Blizz actually gives us an Elun-ahir megadungeon AND a new zone (Rootlands) in 11.1.5? They’ve never given a megadungeon its own zone before, but there’s a first time for everything. Or maybe they could give us the Rootlands as a Forbidden Reach type zone in 11.0.5/7, and add a megadungeon to it in 11.1.5

[Raetary]

They’ve never given a megadungeon its own zone before, but there’s a first time for everything.

They did do that with Mechagon.

[Sondrelk]

I think that Undermine is 99% likely to be the zone for 11.1. Xal’atath will strike some type of bargain with at least one of the Cartels, and it’s not uncommon for the Season 2 patches to deviate a bit from the main story. For example, Sarkareth was pretty much irrelevant to the Incarnates storyline. And like I said, there’s no better time to use the Undermine than in the subterranean expansion.

And then 11.2 will most likely be either Beledar or Elun’ahir. Maybe Blizz actually gives us an Elun-ahir megadungeon AND a new zone (Rootlands) in 11.1.5? They’ve never given a megadungeon its own zone before, but there’s a first time for everything. Or maybe they could give us the Rootlands as a Forbidden Reach type zone in 11.0.5/7, and add a megadungeon to it in 11.1.5

They did give Mechagon its own zone, so it wouldnt be the first time, no.

And that is a fair theory. A split zone patch like 8.2 with Nazjatar as a main zone and Mechagon as a smaller zone is absolutely fair play. Really it all depends on how you prefer to divide the attention.
Personally I want Rootlands with heavy Goblin presence because that is an aesthetic that we don't really get anymore. And then splurge on the pure Goblin stuff with an Undermine raid.
I do know that some people want pure goblins with a dedicated Undermine zone and accompanying raid though. I just think that might end up a bit too much of one thing in a single zone.

[Telogrus]

They did do that with Mechagon.

My bad, forgot about that since I didn’t play BfA

- - - Updated - - -

They did give Mechagon its own zone, so it wouldnt be the first time, no.

And that is a fair theory. A split zone patch like 8.2 with Nazjatar as a main zone and Mechagon as a smaller zone is absolutely fair play. Really it all depends on how you prefer to divide the attention.
Personally I want Rootlands with heavy Goblin presence because that is an aesthetic that we don't really get anymore. And then splurge on the pure Goblin stuff with an Undermine raid.
I do know that some people want pure goblins with a dedicated Undermine zone and accompanying raid though. I just think that might end up a bit too much of one thing in a single zone.

I just don’t see how they can make Venture Co into a credible enough threat, since they’re the only Goblin group I could imagine going out of their way to do something like that. It’d be weird if the Venture Co was too much for the Harronir to handle. And they didn’t make the Venture Co seem that hostile in that Niffen area in Azj Kahet

[Sondrelk]

I just don’t see how they can make Venture Co into a credible enough threat, since they’re the only Goblin group I could imagine going out of their way to do something like that. It’d be weird if the Venture Co was too much for the Harronir to handle. And they didn’t make the Venture Co seem that hostile in that Niffen area in Azj Kahet

Shouldnt require more than saying Gallywix took control of Vneture Co. and allied with Xal'atath. Just point to some weird experimental power core that makes Goblin power suits 500% more effective at blowing stuff up and you have a strong reason why they should be as threatening as they are.

Also, the Harronir have really weird rules and traditions that hold them back. You could easily make a good and meaty questline about them having to shed their traditions to defend their home. That is basically the boilerplate WoW faction story anyways.

[Telogrus]

Shouldnt require more than saying Gallywix took control of Vneture Co. and allied with Xal'atath. Just point to some weird experimental power core that makes Goblin power suits 500% more effective at blowing stuff up and you have a strong reason why they should be as threatening as they are.

Also, the Harronir have really weird rules and traditions that hold them back. You could easily make a good and meaty questline about them having to shed their traditions to defend their home. That is basically the boilerplate WoW faction story anyways.

That could work, but it’d be odd that they didn’t foreshadow in 11.0 any conflict between the Harronir and Venture Co despite the Venture Co being in Azj Kahet

[Sondrelk]

That could work, but it’d be odd that they didn’t foreshadow in 11.0 any conflict between the Harronir and Venture Co despite the Venture Co being in Azj Kahet

Sure. But neither the Harronir nor the Goblins really have a strong opponent at this point in time, and yet both are very heavily pushed by the narrative. They will have to fight something.
The Harronir could always fight regular Old God enemies of course, but the Goblins don't have anyone to fight just yet, which to me means we will go back to Ol' Faithful and have them desecrate some natural landscapes with giant shredders.

[Teriz]

Don’t get why people think the “Goblin Raid” will be in the Rootlands. The Goblins and the Harronir haven’t interacted at all in 11.0, despite there being some Venture Co Goblins in Azj Kahet. Given that Undermine is subterranean, it would be bizarre if it wasn’t featured in a Goblin-centric patch in TWW

Because people don't want a patch dedicated to Goblins. it's as simple as that.

Meanwhile, if you simply look at the lore, it simply makes sense;

+There is a mysterious void beneath Undermine.
+There is a lot of Azerite in Undermine/Kezan.
+Gallywix is on the loose, and is just slimy enough to make a deal with Xal'atath. In fact, his presence in the Shadowlands might be because of Xal'atath.
+We have Gazlowe as a major character of TWW
+As you said; As a subterranean city, Undermine fits the expansion theme.

Not to mention that Undermine would give the expansion some much needed Horde material.

[Telogrus]

Because people don't want a patch dedicated to Goblins. it's as simple as that.

Meanwhile, if you simply look at the lore, it simply makes sense;

+There is a mysterious void beneath Undermine.
+There is a lot of Azerite in Undermine/Kezan.
+Gallywix is on the loose, and is just slimy enough to make a deal with Xal'atath. In fact, his presence in the Shadowlands might be because of Xal'atath.
+We have Gazlowe as a major character of TWW
+As you said; As a subterranean city, Undermine fits the expansion theme.

Not to mention that Undermine would give the expansion some much needed Horde material.

If Undermine somehow doesn’t get featured in TWW, then I can only assume it’s because they have plans to make Kezan a future expansion continent, which I doubt

[Eldryth]

Whatever patches they get, I just really hope that they focus enough on the Rootlands to do it, and the Harronir, justice. It's by far the biggest plot hook we have.

Apart from fleshing out the Harronir's culture and secret mission, it's closely tied to so many major things right now:

The Harronir are extremely familiar with the Black Blood (which Xal'atath's plan seems to revolve around) and the Unseeming, so it should explain a lot about the overarching plot. I think it'd probably fit best as the middle tier because of this alone.

The roots come from Elune and Eonar, and are supposed to be a symbol of their love- it should finally flesh them out a bit and maybe set up the Pantheon's internal relations by expanding on the conflict with Aman'thul.

Freya also protected it during the war with the Black Empire, and it's likely tied to the secret mission she left the Freysworn.

There's just way too much setup there to satisfyingly handle in a small patch like the Forbidden Reach. Maybe if they start making the minor patches a lot bigger, but it'd have to be an enormous change.

I just don’t see how they can make Venture Co into a credible enough threat, since they’re the only Goblin group I could imagine going out of their way to do something like that. It’d be weird if the Venture Co was too much for the Harronir to handle. And they didn’t make the Venture Co seem that hostile in that Niffen area in Azj Kahet

I'm actually not sure it would even be the Venture Co. if we get a Goblin threat. One of the max-level campaign chapters had us fighting a new group called the Darkfuse that was causing trouble in the Ringing Deeps, I can see them being built up as the actual threat that the Venture Co. was never able to be- and maybe working for Xal'atath.

Though regardless of which cartel it is, I can see them causing trouble in Khaz Algar even more easily than I can see Undermine. I mean, that's what Goblin antagonists have always done, and it absolutely fits the story setup we have better so far. Maybe future patches will give us a reason to actually go to Undermine, but so far, all of the Goblins causing trouble are here, in Khaz Algar.

[Nymrohd]

It's awful. Nokhud offensive made worse.

I have no idea how we coordinate the entire group to land in one spot in a PuG.

[Merryck]

How spoiled were we in Battle for Azeroth when we got Mechagon and Nazjatar in a single patch.

Perhaps we will get both the Undermine and the Rootlands.

[Mecheon]

If you don't know what his experiments were about, just say so instead of making wildly off-target guesses.

I know exactly what its about. The thing is, you're dealing with someone who used to live there and has his own memories to draw on in addition to the others, or. Occuleth.

Wenren has no clue about the Empires leyline grid.
He didn't even use them in the questline, he subsidized that connection with irradiated crab innards.

Wenrens whole theory suggest that people have some fundamental memory of their place of birth, he was planning to use other peoples memories of the Empire to create a connection home.

A theory that he proved correct in the questline.

So no, Occuleth would not randomly open Suramar portals as he wouldn't be using his own connections, he would be using some Arathis instead.

I mean, I think its a valid complaint given Occuleth's brand of magic is leyline heavy. He's great at what he does, sure, but this is a brand new type of portal magic that's different to how he operates. Being great at handling one particular way to solve a problem doesn't necessarily mean you can handle all of them, and Occuleth's portal magic uses leylines because that's how Suramar be, he hasn't had to rely on connection stuff like this

I refuse to discount the caster being important on this one. Wenren was from the Empire so he had memories of the place as well to help hone it in (even if unconciously), along with the other stuff gathered. No other mage we know has that, so while they could certainly attempt similar? Its going to be a ridiculous risk because they'll lack that 'I was actually there' connection that he had.

Its moot regardless as the empire is probably going to end up as future expansion, but I bet you that's going to be the specifics on why we can't just portal over there again. Just putting stuff with other people's history and memories of the land won't be enough, the caster themselves needs to have been there

[Xilurm]

How spoiled were we in Battle for Azeroth when we got Mechagon and Nazjatar in a single patch.

Perhaps we will get both the Undermine and the Rootlands.

I don't think that's us being spoiled. They wasted something that could've been it's own expansion.

[Sondrelk]

I have no idea how we coordinate the entire group to land in one spot in a PuG.

Eventually everyone will just generally agree on a location. My guess being the church. Followed by whichever one the boss is currently moving away from.

It's not much different from how in Nokhud everyone just kinda knew which packs to start with in each area.

[Xilurm]

So this week the raid opens, story mode in the week after?

[Sondrelk]

So this week the raid opens, story mode in the week after?

Raid opens next week I believe. Earthen become available this week.

[milkmustache]

I think one of the big "reveals" for TWW (that is maybe not said outright) will be that every cosmo force is making their gambit for the worldsoul. It's not just Xal'atath and the void, although that's the main villain from our persepective. I think Beledar is a naaru ship and something inside it (Lightbound maybe?) was meant to make a move towards to worldsoul. I think the roots of Elun'ahir continue growing closer to the area of the worldsoul for Elune's move. Sargeras' sword was obviously his gambit for fel, the Titans simply got their first so it's already in the hands of order, the Jailer made his move and failed, etc. etc. we already know parts of this, but we're going to see it in a far more evident way by 11.2.

Because people don't want a patch dedicated to Goblins. it's as simple as that.

I know that people are reluctant to have a repeat of Zaralek and a sidequest feeling 11.1 patch with the of potential Undermine, but Rootlands would be extremely similar in themes to 10.2.

I think we'll go to both places, but I think lumping the two together or writing off Undermine while there's a lot of evidence we're going to be seeing a goblin patch is entirely a symptom of people not enjoying the goblin theme or believing in its ability to carry a patch.

We should not forget the same was said about the potential of a dwarven expansion, and the two full zones of earthen and their culture are incredible.

[Nightshade711]

I think one of the big "reveals" for TWW (that is maybe not said outright) will be that every cosmo force is making their gambit for the worldsoul. It's not just Xal'atath and the void, although that's the main villain from our persepective. I think Beledar is a naaru ship and something inside it (Lightbound maybe?) was meant to make a move towards to worldsoul. I think the roots of Elun'ahir continue growing closer to the area of the worldsoul for Elune's move. Sargeras' sword was obviously his gambit for fel, the Titans simply got their first so it's already in the hands of order, the Jailer made his move and failed, etc. etc. we already know parts of this, but we're going to see it in a far more evident way by 11.2.



I know that people are reluctant to have a repeat of Zaralek and a sidequest feeling 11.1 patch with the of potential Undermine, but Rootlands would be extremely similar in themes to 10.2.

I think we'll go to both places, but I think lumping the two together or writing off Undermine while there's a lot of evidence we're going to be seeing a goblin patch is entirely a symptom of people not enjoying the goblin theme or believing in its ability to carry a patch.

We should not forget the same was said about the potential of a dwarven expansion, and the two full zones of earthen and their culture are incredible.

We already (kinda) knew this last expansion for Dawn of the Infinite.
The time rifts showed us alternate timelines where each cosmic force essentially won & got Azeroth. The light was the only exception.

[Xilurm]

Other than the goblins in Azj Kahet, I don't see any evidence for a goblin patch. Can someone explain?