The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[micwini]

You can't do the 13th delve in a group if you want the final reward. In normal delves not everyone can loot the extra follower xp's if you are in a group. You can't play the machine event in a group. Siesbarg I had to do with shitty follower npc's because the way the blood worked (the first 2 quests were awesome though as you could farm them with 4 other people alongside 2 other mount farms). NPC orders basically replaced normal work orders on my realm and again, these are an antisocial solution to the original work order problem.

All of this just feels bad, sorry. Guess the mole people have won, lol.

That said, it will prolly feel a lot better once the season actually starts, but right now, even the words "solo" and "side quests" trigger me >_>

(also half joking with the side quests, but honestly, the whole leveling up content felt more like Diablo IV than WoW ....)

And don't get me wrong, I enjoy most of TWW, warbands are awesome and (initial) dungeon leveling was great too. PvP feels good (even though they already nerfed my frost mage ...), dungeons are piss easy but that's pre-season content so it's fair. The AH problems were super annoying though, glad they kinda fixed them now.

Fair points, but these seem to be personal problems/quirks that can't really be fixed in game design, unless you make everything strictly group content, even when it doesnt need to. I think it's healthy long term, when newer players can play the wholle story experience solo, like multiple expansions from now. Hopefully they then also streamline it better instead of bombaring you with 100 quests when max level is reached.

The final delve reward: Yeah, that's a solo challenge, like mage tower. It's supposed to be difficult and making is solo prevents carrying.

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Young people can't have scars?
Bro shes in a war, of course she will have scars.
Also leaders in the old ages were most often young, so idk why you think a leader would be 40's, when most leaders entered leadership in their 20's.

Leaders in kingdoms yes. Not generals in armies. There is a reason Jeanne d'arc is famous, because it was absurd for someone so young to be in such a position.
I based my expectations on the character I saw in the trailer in which she looked quite older.

[Lady Atia]

I agree re: group play, but AFAIK that remains true except for Awakening the Machine, which is frankly a not-very-well-designed event. I don't understand why it appears to be solo-only. It makes no sense. It's not presented as a solo challenge, and it's not even slightly balanced for solo. Like, I walked up to it on my new-80 Blood DK and casually solo the whole 20 waves with no preparation, but I could tell that if I was a DPS, I would have had huge problems, and needed to fully understand the mechanics and so on.



What do you mean by that? The levelling quests were exceptionally well-done by WoW standards imo, but then, whilst people don't acknowledge it, D4 also had a much better actual story/plot than any Diablo other 2.

In general the questing in TWW is a cut above other expansions, I'd say.

I mean the general structure of the whole thing. I'm much more a fan of one big linear storyline that brings me through the zones instead of having everything fragmented. The latest pokemon game I played (scarlet?) had the same issue for me.

[Eurhetemec]

I mean the general structure of the whole thing. I'm much more a fan of one big linear storyline that brings me through the zones instead of having everything fragmented. The latest pokemon game I played (scarlet?) had the same issue for me.

But Diablo 4 did have one big linear storyline that brought you through the zones... I guess I just don't know what you mean.

[Lady Atia]

But Diablo 4 did have one big linear storyline that brought you through the zones... I guess I just don't know what you mean.

Nope? You could play act 1-3 in any way you wanted, and instead of going from zone to zone like in D3 you had to run through empty zones if you just wanted to play the MSQ. Looks like we played a different game haha.

[Eurhetemec]

Nope? You could play act 1-3 in any way you wanted, and instead of going from zone to zone like in D3 you had to run through empty zones if you just wanted to play the MSQ. Looks like we played a different game haha.

I guess you technically could, but like, that's on you. You never had to "run through empty zones" in D4, nor do you in TWW. Just follow the MSQ. If you want to break off from it and do something else, that's up to you.

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Leaders in kingdoms yes. Not generals in armies.

Loads of armies have been commanded by people aged 16-30. The idea that armies are always commanded by grizzled generals is pure fantasy. Do you need me to go through history and provide examples?

What age do you think Napoleon became a general for example? He was born in 1769. He became a General in 1793.

He was 24.

That was not atypical, either, and that was in a more professional army than many! Throughout history, people aged 16-30 have very frequently ended up commanding military formations of various sizes, often pretty damn large ones. Alexander the Great was 20 when started leading the Macedonians and was already a better general than any of the older men working for him.

[Ersula]

Leaders in kingdoms yes. Not generals in armies. There is a reason Jeanne d'arc is famous, because it was absurd for someone so young to be in such a position.
I based my expectations on the character I saw in the trailer in which she looked quite older.

1.) She implies at least part of her disfigurement is from birth. It's why her Parents treated her badly.
2.) She's not a general. She's a Lamplighter, which are like the Night's Watch in Game of Thrones
3.) She's not young. Considering she wasn't born in Harrowfal, she has to be over 30.
4.) A lot of the Arathi are scarred or missing body parts. It's the most noticeable thing about them. The Nerubian conflict ramped up very recently so that either means the Empire itself is extremely violent or in contrast to Player races, their lack of druids and mages is why these injuries can't be reversed.

[MCMLXXXII]

I agree re: group play, but AFAIK that remains true except for Awakening the Machine, which is frankly a not-very-well-designed event. I don't understand why it appears to be solo-only. It makes no sense. It's not presented as a solo challenge, and it's not even slightly balanced for solo. Like, I walked up to it on my new-80 Blood DK and casually solo the whole 20 waves with no preparation, but I could tell that if I was a DPS, I would have had huge problems, and needed to fully understand the mechanics and so on.



What do you mean by that? The levelling quests were exceptionally well-done by WoW standards imo, but then, whilst people don't acknowledge it, D4 also had a much better actual story/plot than any Diablo other 2.

In general the questing in TWW is a cut above other expansions, I'd say.

I just finished awakening the Machine as DPS by just planting my face on the keyboard as a poorly geared lvl 80, it really isn't that hard.

[Eurhetemec]

3.) A lot of the Arathi are scarred or missing body parts. It's the most noticeable thing about them. The Nerubian conflict ramped up very recently so that either means the Empire itself is extremely violent or in contrast to Player races, their lack of druids and mages is why these injuries can't be reversed.

This is an interesting point. I think the injuries are primarily meant to imply that their fight against the darkness is a really constant thing, that they're in a kind of "fantasy vietnam", even though, as you point out, lore-wise, the Nerubian conflict only went very "hot" more recently.

But it could be there's some implication the Empire itself is pretty violent. We know it's warlike, powerful, oppressive, and intolerant of differences - specifically Faerin mentions the fact that a lot of the company we (the player) keep would not be welcome in the Empire, and I think this is intentionally ambiguous because Blizzard didn't want to have to write a ton of different dialogue based on our races/classes etc., but given they seem to be obsessive Light-worshippers, I suspect Warlocks, DKs, DHes, Undead, and probably quite a few others would be "not okay" there.

As an aside, does anyone else think (and apologies if this has been discussed already) that the appearance of the Empire as a major Light-themed likely-antagonist means that Yrel and her AU Draenor army of the Light are a bit less likely to re-appear? I'd been more or less assuming they would be back at some point in Midnight particularly, but I'm increasingly thinking that the Empire serves such a similar role they probably just won't.

I'm also thinking that predictions re: Midnight are failing to take the Empire into account, and whilst we may well not visit them that expansion, they might well visit us. Probably with a heavily armed invasion fleet and a lot of angry Light-wielders who aren't here to listen to excuses.

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I just finished awakening the Machine as DPS by just planting my face on the keyboard as a poorly geared lvl 80, it really isn't that hard.

Good to hear. Maybe you can just avoid tactics by blowing everything up way faster than a tank.

[MCMLXXXII]

This is an interesting point. I think the injuries are primarily meant to imply that their fight against the darkness is a really constant thing, that they're in a kind of "fantasy vietnam", even though, as you point out, lore-wise, the Nerubian conflict only went very "hot" more recently.

But it could be there's some implication the Empire itself is pretty violent. We know it's warlike, powerful, oppressive, and intolerant of differences - specifically Faerin mentions the fact that a lot of the company we (the player) keep would not be welcome in the Empire, and I think this is intentionally ambiguous because Blizzard didn't want to have to write a ton of different dialogue based on our races/classes etc., but given they seem to be obsessive Light-worshippers, I suspect Warlocks, DKs, DHes, Undead, and probably quite a few others would be "not okay" there.

As an aside, does anyone else think (and apologies if this has been discussed already) that the appearance of the Empire as a major Light-themed likely-antagonist means that Yrel and her AU Draenor army of the Light are a bit less likely to re-appear? I'd been more or less assuming they would be back at some point in Midnight particularly, but I'm increasingly thinking that the Empire serves such a similar role they probably just won't.

I'm also thinking that predictions re: Midnight are failing to take the Empire into account, and whilst we may well not visit them that expansion, they might well visit us. Probably with a heavily armed invasion fleet and a lot of angry Light-wielders who aren't here to listen to excuses.

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Good to hear. Maybe you can just avoid tactics by blowing everything up way faster than a tank.

Yeah no need for tactics. Kill pylons first then the rest. And my dps isn't that good, only wave 19 gets tricky.

[Ersula]

I'm hoping the Rootlands & Goblin tier are the same. I'm hoping for fending off Goblins from attacking the rootlands. Mainly because we've already had too many zones whos theme is just "nature." Give me a deforestation zone.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I am just excited to see what they have in store. Rootlands is whatever to me, it doesn't destroy the expansion but it may dry things up for PR/Hype.

Undermine would be gangbusters hype but I again have withheld any thoughts that GoblinRaid isn't just a Venture Co. Versus Harronir in Rootlands Raid.

[Telogrus]

I'm hoping the Rootlands & Goblin tier are the same. I'm hoping for fending off Goblins from attacking the rootlands. Mainly because we've already had too many zones whos theme is just "nature." Give me a deforestation zone.

If Undermine isn't a patch in TWW, idk when else we'd get it. Elun'ahir is already distinct enough from other nature zones by being entirely underground and nothing but roots.

[Cheezits]

Sooooo... turns out Kaheti Nerubians are appearing at the embassies.

https://twitter.com/HjalmarRambles/s...57203620593799

You don't think...?

EDIT: Nevermind, this is apparently a troll created by using a bugged item.

[Eurhetemec]

Sooooo... turns out Kaheti Nerubians are appearing at the embassies.

https://twitter.com/HjalmarRambles/s...57203620593799

You don't think...?

80% chance it's just Blizzard trolling and/or we'll just see Kaheti Nerubians as NPCs in places outside the expansion, but nothing more than that. 20% chance they're doing something more interesting.

[Zardas]

If Undermine isn't a patch in TWW, idk when else we'd get it.

In the Undermine expansion, of course.

[Telogrus]

In the Undermine expansion, of course.

I don’t think that Undermine/Kezan are strong enough to carry an expansion

[Eldryth]

I don’t think that Undermine/Kezan are strong enough to carry an expansion

I agree that it wouldn't be enough by itself, but it would make a great zone(s) and Horde capitol in a South Seas expansion. I know BFA already touched on that theme a bit but there's still room to make it work. Could have Kezan, Plunder Isle, and Tel Abim at the very least.

[huth]

I know exactly what its about. The thing is, you're dealing with someone who used to live there and has his own memories to draw on in addition to the others, or. Occuleth.

No, you don't. If he had done that, his experiment would have been a failure.

but this is a brand new type of portal magic that's different to how he operates.

You're making a whole lot of assumptions there. All of the magic involved may well be known to the mages we have available. Wenren had to create them from scratch because he was just an apprentice who hadn't learned portal magic when the expedition came to Hallowfall and all their other mages died in that event.

[Lady Atia]

I don’t think that Undermine/Kezan are strong enough to carry an expansion

If "Ironforge 2.0 + Azjol Nerub but 17 years later" can carry it's own expansion, there really aren't any limits for what they can do. And from the way they were talking about the "next 30 years of Warcraft" I doubt they will waste expansion level content like Avaloren on a patch again. That said, Undermine would fit TWW and would be a nice sub plot, and there really aren't any other hooks for it besides "azerite and the void balrog under it". Besides that, I'm not sure if we really need another underground expansion again so it makes sense to do it here, hopefully as fully fleshed out zone on par with Hearthstone's Gadgetzan. Would love to see lots of different races there aswell as Shadowland's brokers since they made a deal with Gallywally.

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I agree that it wouldn't be enough by itself, but it would make a great zone(s) and Horde capitol in a South Seas expansion. I know BFA already touched on that theme a bit but there's still room to make it work. Could have Kezan, Plunder Isle, and Tel Abim at the very least.

Tel Abim should be it's own expansion, they could easily go with an arabic styled continent, something we didn't really had besides maybe Uldum and Tanaris. Would make a great "holiday breather" like MoP back than.

[micwini]

I guess you technically could, but like, that's on you. You never had to "run through empty zones" in D4, nor do you in TWW. Just follow the MSQ. If you want to break off from it and do something else, that's up to you.

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Loads of armies have been commanded by people aged 16-30. The idea that armies are always commanded by grizzled generals is pure fantasy. Do you need me to go through history and provide examples?

What age do you think Napoleon became a general for example? He was born in 1769. He became a General in 1793.

He was 24.

That was not atypical, either, and that was in a more professional army than many! Throughout history, people aged 16-30 have very frequently ended up commanding military formations of various sizes, often pretty damn large ones. Alexander the Great was 20 when started leading the Macedonians and was already a better general than any of the older men working for him.

Like I said, that's the reason they are famous. Survivorship bias.
Most leaders have always been aged/experienced.
You're naming a few examples, but it isn't and has never been the norm.