1. #78261
    Damn, the end campaign feels a bit unpolished. Thrall praising Turalyon for his valor and leadership skills is bizarre, especially right after Turalyon's racist remarks towards Geya'rah. Same with Kurdran cracking jokes about Dalaran, as if he hadn't lost an old friend there. It's so strange that no one but Alleria even talks about Khadgar.

  2. #78262
    Quote Originally Posted by Telogrus View Post
    I don’t think that Undermine/Kezan are strong enough to carry an expansion
    Can easily combined with some other islands we know exists + a ship sailing feature. BOOM -> Expansion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    Damn, the end campaign feels a bit unpolished. Thrall praising Turalyon for his valor and leadership skills is bizarre, especially right after Turalyon's racist remarks towards Geya'rah. Same with Kurdran cracking jokes about Dalaran, as if he hadn't lost an old friend there. It's so strange that no one but Alleria even talks about Khadgar.
    Worst part is that the cutscenes are missing voices. Kurdran joking about dala was a bit weird ye, so soon especially.
    I'm glad they still have some A v H. Whether people care about it or not, it's kind of a big part of the soul of the game. I miss when you'd go to new continents/areas as either horde / alliance instead of unnamed expedition #50
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  3. #78263
    I am Murloc! MCMLXXXII's Avatar
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    The only thing I miss, is that the Horde and Alliance campaigns are exactly the same. BFA wasn't a very good expac but at least it got my to play both sides.

  4. #78264
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    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    Like I said, that's the reason they are famous. Survivorship bias.
    Most leaders have always been aged/experienced.
    You're naming a few examples, but it isn't and has never been the norm.
    You've named zero generals so far, so you have no point and no argument.

    "Most leaders have always been aged/experienced."

    Oh are we changing back from generals to just "leaders"? Because that's an ever weaker position. The reality is that whilst younger generals might be a minority, they've never been uncommon, and I don't even know what you think you're arguing re: "the norm". Literally no leader in any Warcraft game has ever been "the norm". Not a single one!
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  5. #78265
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    Like I said, that's the reason they are famous. Survivorship bias.
    Most leaders have always been aged/experienced.
    You're naming a few examples, but it isn't and has never been the norm.
    There are even in-universe examples. Khadgar was 19 years old during the Second War, and Turalyon was about the same age. Both quickly became high-ranking members of the Alliance army, with Turalyon even becoming a high general after Lothar's death.

  6. #78266
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    You've named zero generals so far, so you have no point and no argument.

    "Most leaders have always been aged/experienced."

    Oh are we changing back from generals to just "leaders"? Because that's an ever weaker position. The reality is that whilst younger generals might be a minority, they've never been uncommon, and I don't even know what you think you're arguing re: "the norm". Literally no leader in any Warcraft game has ever been "the norm". Not a single one!
    Leaders of armies. Learn to read between the lines. Why would I change what we're talking about?

    I replied to someone that said "leaders in the past were most often young', which is just flat out wrong.
    Im saying 'most generals/leaders of armies were older/experienced' and you just said 'they might have been the minority'. That is the same thing
    You seem to be arguing with an argument that no one here has made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    There are even in-universe examples. Khadgar was 19 years old during the Second War, and Turalyon was about the same age. Both quickly became high-ranking members of the Alliance army, with Turalyon even becoming a high general after Lothar's death.
    These are ingame. Obv different. The person I initially replied to mentioned 'most leaders in the old ages', referring to real world history.
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  7. #78267
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    You're making a whole lot of assumptions there. All of the magic involved may well be known to the mages we have available. Wenren had to create them from scratch because he was just an apprentice who hadn't learned portal magic when the expedition came to Hallowfall and all their other mages died in that event.
    The quest indicates it is at least semi-novel, and assuming it would be trivial for other mages seems pretty baseless, especially as being a PC Mage doesn't seem to have any benefits on the quest. Especially given that no-one seems to be able to teleport there trivially, not even the titans (given they lost "expeditions" going there, the "wreckage" of which was found on "our shores" - implying they travelled by vehicle, probably boat or airship). What exactly the difficulty is seems unclear but there's something going on there.
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  8. #78268
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    The quest indicates it is at least semi-novel, and assuming it would be trivial for other mages seems pretty baseless, especially as being a PC Mage doesn't seem to have any benefits on the quest. Especially given that no-one seems to be able to teleport there trivially, not even the titans (given they lost "expeditions" going there, the "wreckage" of which was found on "our shores" - implying they travelled by vehicle, probably boat or airship). What exactly the difficulty is seems unclear but there's something going on there.
    PC mages are very obviously focused on battle magic, not utility. And even then they get the option on calling him out on naively not learning at least one way of making a portal back home.

    It's also generally not considered a good idea to make large-scale portals in unknown or enemy-controlled territory, as they tend to work both ways. The Keepers (not Titans) failed to secure a beachhead to set up a portal against an enemy of unknown capabilities.

    Also, it's novel to Wenren. That doesn't mean much. He is, by his own admission, hardly an expert on magic except when compared to the other Hallowfall Arathi. The makeup of the expedition suggests they didn't expect it to be exceptionally difficult and were mostly waylaid by nearly all of their mages getting killed on arrival, with the only survivor being an apprentice that is bad at this particular kind of magic who was forced by circumstance to recreate much of it from scratch.

    Also consider that the magic in the crabs is remnants of the teleport magic used to move Dalaran.

  9. #78269
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    PC mages are very obviously focused on battle magic, not utility. And even then they get the option on calling him out on naively not learning at least one way of making a portal back home.

    It's also generally not considered a good idea to make large-scale portals in unknown or enemy-controlled territory, as they tend to work both ways. The Keepers (not Titans) failed to secure a beachhead to set up a portal against an enemy of unknown capabilities.

    Also, it's novel to Wenren. That doesn't mean much. He is, by his own admission, hardly an expert on magic except when compared to the other Hallowfall Arathi. The makeup of the expedition suggests they didn't expect it to be exceptionally difficult and were mostly waylaid by nearly all of their mages getting killed on arrival, with the only survivor being an apprentice that is bad at this particular kind of magic who was forced by circumstance to recreate much of it from scratch.

    Also consider that the magic in the crabs is remnants of the teleport magic used to move Dalaran.
    Sure, and that's all true and makes sense. But I still think it's a reach to assume some Dalaran mage will find it trivial. I think what they may actually find, in later patches, is that they can't work out how to teleport to Avaloren at all, because there is some kind of complicating factor they don't understand.
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  10. #78270
    Chapter 5 spoilers are out there now, fwiw.

  11. #78271
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    were the balls is the quest

  12. #78272
    There is a cinematic that currently has the wrong audio in-game, so you'll have to watch it on YouTube instead if you are doing it pre-hotfix (which I hope will come sooner rather than later).

  13. #78273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mekkle View Post
    were the balls is the quest
    Same spot we turned in the last part of the campaign quest. They didn't highlight it, but it's the same area.

  14. #78274
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    There is a cinematic that currently has the wrong audio in-game, so you'll have to watch it on YouTube instead if you are doing it pre-hotfix (which I hope will come sooner rather than later).
    Hopefully the EU version tomorrow will be ok.

  15. #78275
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Hopefully the EU version tomorrow will be ok.
    This is a pretty easy hotfix, so I assume so.

  16. #78276
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    There is a cinematic that currently has the wrong audio in-game, so you'll have to watch it on YouTube instead if you are doing it pre-hotfix (which I hope will come sooner rather than later).
    If you don't want to go this route, you can always drop the quest and re-do it later on, which is what I plan to do. (I watched the cutscene anyway.)

  17. #78277
    Wow. I was not expecting a single thing that happened in that cinematic.

  18. #78278
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    There is a cinematic that currently has the wrong audio in-game, so you'll have to watch it on YouTube instead if you are doing it pre-hotfix (which I hope will come sooner rather than later).
    Yeah, I unfortunately got the big reveal when the cinematic error'd and showed me the NPC. Still cool though.

    I liked it. I also like that I really have no idea where we're going after this, and I have no idea what Xal'atath's motives, plan, or origins are. The thread of mystery is still alive, yet the story continues.

    Xal'atath harvesting our rage vs the Nerubians and vice versa is an interesting point. They will obviously be our allies once Ansurek is deposed, and maybe that does give more credit to an Ascended allied race possibility (although the whole mind controlled by Xal thing is kind of a red flag).

    Anduin rezzing Khadgar is a great turn. I like how they're handling Anduin this expansion, he holds a lot of weight without being overtly pro Alliance or overtly neutral. His heart still holds true to Stormwind and the Alliance, but he is also here to aid the world.

    I wonder if Khadgar will have any visions from the Void to share with us.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Wow. I was not expecting a single thing that happened in that cinematic.
    Agreed. Blizz is holding their storytelling kinda close to their chest on this one and I really like it. There is a significant jump in quality from DF's narrative and pacing here. Great on Blizz to follow through on recognzing and learning from their mistakes.

  19. #78279
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    Pretty decent stuff, finally we stopped Xals annoying smugness
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  20. #78280
    Quote Originally Posted by milkmustache View Post
    Agreed. Blizz is holding their storytelling kinda close to their chest on this one and I really like it. There is a significant jump in quality from DF's narrative and pacing here. Great on Blizz to follow through on recognzing and learning from their mistakes.
    I was EXTREMELY happy to see Alleria get a win and the Dark Heart get cracked/fucked up this early in the expansion. In previous expansions this would've taken a much longer time and probably happen in a regular quest.

    Also the tone of the first campaign being everyone wins is pretty cool, unless something shocking happens after Ansurek. Which I doubt.

    As for the Ascended mind control, that plot point smacks of "this is part of unlocking them" to me. The only reason they would be happy with us killing Ansurek is if we free them and expose the conspiracy.
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2024-09-03 at 04:05 PM.

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