The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[micwini]

[Sondrelk]

Why is it showing the proven fake stone triceratops? I guess it's to give an impression of what kind of mobs could be there, but seems a bit clickbaity to include in the thumbnail.

[Raetary]

Why is it showing the proven fake stone triceratops? I guess it's to give an impression of what kind of mobs could be there, but seems a bit clickbaity to include in the thumbnail.

He's the guy who created those leaks.

He goes on a whole tangent about why he included it in the leak and how the Briarthorn might pop up and how Torcali might be involved.

[MauroDiogo]

I mentioned it in the official forums and WoW's Reddit but I LOVE theories and trying to uncover mysteries about the game and where the plot might be heading next and we have a lot to go by with this expansion and some leaks while at the same time being given a guideline since they announced themes and names for the next two expansions.

Of course, a lot of this is just me speculating and sharing my thoughts but I think we'll deal with Xal'atath this expansion and then Dimensius/An Old God next expansion.

I believe Beledar is Naaru in nature and might even be what planted the Light in Azeroth. Beledar has been sending out the Radiant Song as probably a cry for help and this is how Thoradin knew where to send an expedition to. Which landed them in Hollowfall.

I say this because Anduin himself experienced something very similar to what the Radiant Song is:
"And then, a sound. At first it was merely a vibration in the night, yet even that slight disturbance of the air was pure and strong and clean. A glow began, then several; the vibration became many, all in different tones, and the sights and sounds coalesced into an ascending tide of rainbow and melody. Beings of Light surrounded Anduin, rescuing him from the dark and singing to him of hope in a chorus that restored the universe. In the midst of it all, the face of one of the refugees appeared, a man the prince had seen many times but whose name he did not know. The beings around Anduin said (sang), "Each life, a universe." "

This description sounds a lot like a Radiant Song.

Beledar could be one of the shards that infused Azeroth with life. And the Emperor might have come to it's rescue because if Beledar is extinguished, the Light could potentially be weakened significantly too, thus allowing the Void to gain a lot of ground.

Mereldar seems like the first person (at least recorded) to have received the Light and Mereldar was part of the Arathi empire. So that could be a thread connecting the Light, beledar, Naaru, Arathi and the Emperor.

Along with the fact that the term or title of Torch Bearer is used and seen throughout Hallowfall.
The same term is used in the item description for T'uure - The artifact staff wielded by Holy Priests in Legion.
"Blessed are the torchbearers, who bring the light to darkness."

The weapon also has a sub-title: Beacon of the Naaru.

We know Xal'atath was also a weapon wielded by Shadow Priests. A nice parallel to T'uure, the Holy staff that just so happens to be sub titled as a Beacon and mentions torch bearers. Light <-> Void / T'uure <-> Xal'atath

T'uure was a Naaru. That sacrificed itself battling Dimensius (Void) and it caused a really powerful Holy Nova (Light) that released shards in the process. MAYBE one of them landing on Azeroth and those being what infused Azeroth with the Light. Acting as a beacon - This "beacon" could be implied by being the beacon that infused Azeroth with the Light in a time where it was dominated by the Old Gods, maybe a beacon that is calling out and luring the Arathi and adventurers alike or maybe just a beacon to signal Azeroth as a waypoint/location for other Naaru.

It is also mentioned in the lore that when weakened or dying, go through a state called the Void state.

This could explain why Beledar is in constant shift. Maybe it was the target of Sargera's sword. Or maybe it was in a dormant state, before the impact of the sword shifted the land close to it and weakened it or maybe it was already weak, being just a shard of T'uure and it is now being corrupted by the "Black Blood" and starts crying out for help through the Radiant Song.

Magni himself stated that the Radiant Song was not coming from Azeroth, it was something completely different.

And maybe this all leads to a future Void/Twisting Nether/Ethereal raid where we deal with Xal'atath but somehow the way is open to Old Gods and maybe even Dimensius for the Midnight Void vs Light expansion.

[Ersula]

Would be kinda odd to have an entire continent be completely devoid of their presence when they were running the place for millenia.

Shouldn't we assume Avaloren, The Dragon Isles, The Elemental Planes that the Titans already sequestered off the map are safe from the old gods? The Arathi don't know who the Titans are somehow. So I assume there are no Titan facilities there, so essentially; The part of the map players are from is the 'old god quarantine zone'.

[Sondrelk]

Shouldn't we assume Avaloren, The Dragon Isles, The Elemental Planes that the Titans already sequestered off the map are safe from the old gods? The Arathi don't know who the Titans are somehow. So I assume there are no Titan facilities there, so essentially; The part of the map players are from is the 'old god quarantine zone'.

I feel that is a fair assumption. If nothing else because the Old Gods really don't seem like the type to create expeditions to colonize far off lands.
If we are to assume that there would be Old Gods on the opposite side of Azeroth, then why not also assume there are a bunch at the bottom of the sea?

I imagine the explanation here is quite simply that the Old Gods landed on ancient Kalimdor, and never left or sent out expeditions on account of them being giant mountains of immobile flesh incapable of getting into a boat.

[Auxis]

Why is it showing the proven fake stone triceratops? I guess it's to give an impression of what kind of mobs could be there, but seems a bit clickbaity to include in the thumbnail.

He's the guy who created those leaks.

He goes on a whole tangent about why he included it in the leak and how the Briarthorn might pop up and how Torcali might be involved.

Basically, its this:
- Haranir huts/attire are made from material from a hereto unseen plant - this plant has thorns with red tips, and red leaves. Roses are shown as an example of such a plant.
- The roots "spirals" are reminiscent of the roots in the Emeral Dream/Amirdrassil's roots. These spirals are also seen in the Briarthorns of the Quilboar areas.
- Haranir look like trolls, there is a magnaron-like creature in Azj-kahet whose only noticeable different from Draenor magnaron are it's 2 troll-like tusks; this is the basis for where Trolls came from in his theory.
- Haranir have quills like quillboars. He theorizes that Agammagan was once involved in the Haranir's society/the "rootlands".
- There is a rose item in TWW which seems to have some relation to Elun-ahir: https://www.wowhead.com/item=224265/deepgrove-rose and https://www.wowhead.com/item=224835/deepgrove-roots . The Rose itself is named after a 'Deepgrove' - and its found all across Khaz Algar, meaning it could be a spawn of the plant that the Haranir are protecting. This is further substantiated by the Root left behind after plucking the rose, which is noted to continue growing after the rose is harvested - very similar to the Roots of Elun-ahir which kept growing after Aman'thul ripped it out.
Basically, it looks like Elun-ahir could have been a giant flower/rose. Which is a bit fitting as it was a cutting of G'hanir given to Eonar by her "beloved" Elune (giving a rose to someone you love is a trope in romance), and G'hanir is said to bear the seeds of all Azerothian plants - not hard to stretch that a magical rose tree could come from it somehow.

[Jolly Roger]

Unsure about that one mind. Korbyss are descendants of Murlocs, so you're implying Xalatath was once a Murloc pre-change.

I genuinely can't switch off from the idea that she's a human avatar of N'Zoth. That theory still hasn't gone yet, the cinematic only raised suspicions with the final line of "Only the strongest survive" N'Zoth fought the other 3 before they joined forces and was the weakest out the 4.

idk why it suggests she is a murloc
the black blood is her power
assuming that means the black blood is her blood it means she is the old god that is bleeding
we saw in a cinematic that there is a dead body
we know as recently as DF there is a 5th old god
we know that she was torn apart by her brothers
we know that there is an ocean under the depths of what we see in hallowfall
we know that there are void creatures under that ocean
we also know that Xal is strong enough to see Elune as barely a real goddess
and finally we know that blizz are using the whispers we have been getting since legion even though some are saying "oh they just wrote those as throw aways" or "no that one already happened with *insert extremely loose fitting thing here like the valkyr and the whisper about the last being the first* so it cant be about that"

mark my words 11.1 will be arathi invasion and Taelia revealed as the menethil heir after the scarlets team up with the emperor

[Raetary]

Wow, there are people still clinging to the Taelia = B+C thing.

That went out the window the moment they put all 3 of them in the same room.

[Sondrelk]

Wow, there are people still clinging to the Taelia = B+C thing.

That went out the window the moment they put all 3 of them in the same room.

It's over once we get concrete proof of it not being the case.
If wow lore was decided on who did or didn't have a perfectly normal conversation with someone right next to them, a whole bunch of stuff would be nonsensical.

Taelia being the daughter of Bolvar and Calia is the kind of perfect explanation for a characters backstory that doesn't go away simply because it doesn't make sense in the real world. Just like how Khadgar being alive was a perfectly reasonable view to have despite the fact we literally saw him begin to Disintegrate.

[Jolly Roger]

I think that Xal is the “Ancient One” referred to in the Void Azeroth alternate timeline

- - - Updated - - -



Khaz Algar should have been in C’Thun’s territory based on the map of the Black Empire from Chronicles, so I doubt there’d be an Old God there. If there’s a 5th Old God, it probably is/was located on the other side of Azeroth

if there is a 5th then we cant take the map at face value
possible 4 of them teamed up to kill the 5th and the territories were split

- - - Updated - - -

Wow, there are people still clinging to the Taelia = B+C thing.

That went out the window the moment they put all 3 of them in the same room.

ya know we have heard the same thing about the whispers too

but lets go a bit further in this
points against it:
they didnt recognize eachother
scarlets claim to have the heir and its a boy

points for it:
for some reason taelia was in SL
bolvar lost his wife and caelia lost her husband and daughter
caelia was larping as a commoner for most of her life because of arthas
bolvar married a commoner secretly
decades have passed since they saw eachother
oh also the menethil heir would be hunted by the undead and the scarlets as a false heir

but yeah it would be super cool for the light undead leader to just walk up and say "hi honey i know i hid from you for decades then you got killed and our daughter was raised an orphan but btw i was alive all this time just in hiding and seeing how our daughter reacted to you being alive i thought it would be completely acceptable to just reveal myself here"

[Raetary]

Taelia being the daughter of Bolvar and Calia is the kind of perfect explanation

It was the perfect explanation, but then the writers decided to not pursue that and have them all chill out and talk to one another like best buds.

You would have to jump through Jailer lvls of hoops to justify their relationship after their chats and complete disinterest in each other in SL.
And i don't see why Blizzard would risk that shitshow rather than just moving forward with other stories.

[Sondrelk]

It was the perfect explanation, but then the writers decided to not pursue that and have them all chill out and talk to one another like best buds.

You would have to jump through Jailer lvls of hoops to justify their relationship after their chats and complete disinterest in each other in SL.
And i don't see why Blizzard would risk that shitshow rather than just moving forward with other stories.

I say it still is. Assuming it's getting explained it will simply be another in a long list of really odd moments. Like Illidan not talking to Malfurion despite being a stone throw away at the Broken Shore. Or Sylvanas giving a speech to Arthas about how she is over him despite having just recently been directly allied with the person who she knows mind controlled him.

It would be a weird thing for them not to acknowledge. But you could just say Bolvar and Calia didn't immediately recognize each other. Or Calia didn't want to rock the boat by adding a trueborn heir to Lordaeron when she is actively working to establish the Forsaken as the preeminent force in Lordaeron.

[huth]

Shouldn't we assume Avaloren, The Dragon Isles, The Elemental Planes that the Titans already sequestered off the map are safe from the old gods? The Arathi don't know who the Titans are somehow. So I assume there are no Titan facilities there, so essentially; The part of the map players are from is the 'old god quarantine zone'.

Neither did most other cultures until fairly recently. Titan facilities also differ in style greatly; they could easily have some very prominent ones they simply never identified as being Titanic in origin.

And of course you shouldn't assume that. There were many millenia the Old Gods had free reign of the planet before the Titans showed up to subdue them. The Elemental Plane was created to lock up the Elementals that were subservient to the Old Gods at the time. It also had the OG corrupted Deathwing resting there for quite some time. They were never safe from them to begin with.

[Worldshaper]

Haranir are spiny/coarse, indeed. But here's what's most likely imo:

- Elun'Ahir is planted as the first World Tree on Azeroth. An attempt to spread life across the world and tether it to the Dream. An alternate way to defeat the Void (as opposed to the Titans simply placing the worldsoul in stasis to contain her while they slowly work to structure the world and keep it under their control.

- Aman'Thul sees it as a betrayal (which it kinda is...) and an unwelcome variable that could cause instability and uncertainty. He needs control and order.

- The 5th Old God is depicted with vines, leaves and thorns, as well as skulls. Definitely intertwined with the roots of Elun'Ahir.

- While Night Elves are Dark Trolls transformed by Elune and Azeroth (the Well of Eternity), these Dark Trolls were transformed by something more primal. An ancient life-force, stemming from the realms of Life itself. The answered its summons and arrived to protect it, the remnants of Elun'Ahir, and over the years they were affected by it, becoming the Haranir. Guardians of the Roots,

- The question now has to be asked, how does the hidden Old God play into all of this, and what is the true nature of Xal'atath, as well as Elune?

[Ersula]

And of course you shouldn't assume that. There were many millenia the Old Gods had free reign of the planet before the Titans showed up to subdue them. The Elemental Plane was created to lock up the Elementals that were subservient to the Old Gods at the time. It also had the OG corrupted Deathwing resting there for quite some time. They were never safe from them to begin with.

Well, if that's the case, there's no reason to assume there are only 5 old gods. The 5 mentioned in Chronicles are just the ones the Titans found.

[Shadowferal]

The Chronicles are shaky ground as far as sources to rely on.

[Cherry123]

Wow, there are people still clinging to the Taelia = B+C thing.

That went out the window the moment they put all 3 of them in the same room.

It seems they've abandoned Taelia narrative entirely. And I wasn't surprised that they continued this narrative with the Faerin character. Basically, she is Taelia 2.0

Taelia has no place in the world anymore. But in the next expansion we will get a new young protagonist and it will be Salandria.

[Eurhetemec]

One of the big, consistent problems with WoW's worldbuilding (and fantasy worldbuilding in general) is creating new "important" characters but giving them nothing to do.

Yes, and well said re: "fantasy worldbuilding in general", because it 100% is a generalized fantasy (and to a lesser extent SF in general) issue.

It seems they've abandoned Taelia narrative entirely. And I wasn't surprised that they continued this narrative with the Faerin character. Basically, she is Taelia 2.0

Taelia has no place in the world anymore. But in the next expansion we will get a new young protagonist and it will be Salandria.

I think what we're seeing here is essentially Metzen "assuming direct control" (to quote ME2).

I don't think Metzen finds Taelia to be an interesting character, nor her parentage to be a particularly interesting plot thread. Faerin, despite some people's weird hate-boners about her, is a character with a ton more going on, a far more interesting, developed and distinctive visual design, and a character who has ties into likely future content, perhaps even post-Worldsoul-saga stuff, if they save the Arathi Empire for after that (which I think they will, for the most part).

[Lady Atia]

Yes, and well said re: "fantasy worldbuilding in general", because it 100% is a generalized fantasy (and to a lesser extent SF in general) issue.



I think what we're seeing here is essentially Metzen "assuming direct control" (to quote ME2).

I don't think Metzen finds Taelia to be an interesting character, nor her parentage to be a particularly interesting plot thread. Faerin, despite some people's weird hate-boners about her, is a character with a ton more going on, a far more interesting, developed and distinctive visual design, and a character who has ties into likely future content, perhaps even post-Worldsoul-saga stuff, if they save the Arathi Empire for after that (which I think they will, for the most part).

It's great how you guys all seem to know what Metzen thinks or finds lol. Especially after he already said in an interview he will build upon the stuff that was created during his absence instead of retconning / ignoring it.