The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

Do we know why they changed the lore of the Arathi between BlizzCon and launch, so that they arrived in Hallowfall 15 years ago instead of hundreds?

Because hundreds made a lot of sense. Time enough to construct buildings and cathedrals, to develop their own culture in the darkness, and to become hardened over generations of fighting the increasingly hostile Nerubians and Kobyss. Also worked nicely with the half-elf ears we saw in Alpha, a way to live longer lives and counteract a dwindling population etc.

But something obviously made them change it. Does the Beledar lore need to feel more current to fit any other lore? Did they require Avaloren to be different somehow to fit TLT, for example by ensuring any possible corruption was pretty recent?

They never changed the lore, players just misunderstood what the Arathi are.

The impression some players had was that the Arathi had arrived from the Eastern Kingdom 15 years ago, and that there was some mystery as to how they arrived from the past or whatever.
What the lore was, and which some players got confused by, is that the Hallowfall expedition arrived 15 years ago from the Arathi empire, which is somewhere we have not yet seen.

Adn sure, the giant cathedral is a bit of a stretch. But we know that they were more or less at peace until Sargeras' sword hit, and that they had plenty of trade with the Earthen. It's not unthinkable that being such a zealous people, that they focused on making the Priory with the help of the Earthen to get it up quickly.

Also, they don't really have their own culture beyond what is reasonable. They are zealous, like what the Arathi empire at large likely is. And they were all part of an expeditionary fleet mostly comprised of military personnel.
The biggest difference is them not being overtly xenophobic, which is fairly easily explained by years of trade with the earthen combined with their need to be pragmatic against the Kobyss and Nerubians.

[Ersula]

Do we know why they changed the lore of the Arathi between BlizzCon and launch, so that they arrived in Hallowfall 15 years ago instead of hundreds?

Because hundreds made a lot of sense. Time enough to construct buildings and cathedrals, to develop their own culture in the darkness, and to become hardened over generations of fighting the increasingly hostile Nerubians and Kobyss. Also worked nicely with the half-elf ears we saw in Alpha, a way to live longer lives and counteract a dwindling population etc.

But something obviously made them change it. Does the Beledar lore need to feel more current to fit any other lore? Did they require Avaloren to be different somehow to fit TLT, for example by ensuring any possible corruption was pretty recent?

They didn't change anything. They said they an offshoot of the original Arathi empire & they were currently in Hallowfall. We just assumed they went from the Eastern Kingdoms to Hallowfall, not that there was some other location they lived since 1000 years ago.

[Nymrohd]

Like with Torghast it seems they will keep nerfing delves until the portion that is part of progression offers no resistance. If the issue is that some specs cannot handle things because they are bad at soloing, fix it by giving spec specific buffs to Bran not by nerfing the entire thing.

[Alanar]

Also, they don't really have their own culture beyond what is reasonable. They are zealous, like what the Arathi empire at large likely is. And they were all part of an expeditionary fleet mostly comprised of military personnel.
The biggest difference is them not being overtly xenophobic, which is fairly easily explained by years of trade with the earthen combined with their need to be pragmatic against the Kobyss and Nerubians.

The half elf stuff never made much sense to me.. like we see blood elf model being used for npcs.. again..Did they breed with elves? Right so were are the actual elves at? Most importantly.. is.. the why?? Like why are there even elves there.

The arathi would be ten times cooler, when it was a human/vrykul offshoot. Something that makes sense as an old Arathi offshoot. With Hallowfall being done and completed, I can say, I am just not interested anymore in seeing more of them. They are quite, what ever to me. I hoped there was more to them, but they are in fact really damn boring.

Also idk what the exact timeframe is, but the ammount what they were able to built is interesting and why they never thought of looking beyond the damn cave is also weird to me. They also got there in the first place.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Do we know why they changed the lore of the Arathi between BlizzCon and launch, so that they arrived in Hallowfall 15 years ago instead of hundreds?

Because hundreds made a lot of sense. Time enough to construct buildings and cathedrals, to develop their own culture in the darkness, and to become hardened over generations of fighting the increasingly hostile Nerubians and Kobyss. Also worked nicely with the half-elf ears we saw in Alpha, a way to live longer lives and counteract a dwindling population etc.

But something obviously made them change it. Does the Beledar lore need to feel more current to fit any other lore? Did they require Avaloren to be different somehow to fit TLT, for example by ensuring any possible corruption was pretty recent?

The Arathi of Hallowfall sailed from the Arathi Empire located "over seas" and ended up in Hallowfall. They have been there for about 10 years.

The empire itself has been around for thousands of years, as it began as a group of humans and high elves who fought together in the Troll Wars leaving the Eastern Kingdoms together and landing on whatever continent they landed on. As the history of Azeroth unfolded as it did, so did this empire from across the Storming Seas.

I wonder how the impact of the Cataclysm, the Legion's third invasion and N'Zoth being freed impacted them?

[Kiivar86]

Do we know why they changed the lore of the Arathi between BlizzCon and launch, so that they arrived in Hallowfall 15 years ago instead of hundreds?

Because hundreds made a lot of sense. Time enough to construct buildings and cathedrals, to develop their own culture in the darkness, and to become hardened over generations of fighting the increasingly hostile Nerubians and Kobyss. Also worked nicely with the half-elf ears we saw in Alpha, a way to live longer lives and counteract a dwindling population etc.

But something obviously made them change it. Does the Beledar lore need to feel more current to fit any other lore? Did they require Avaloren to be different somehow to fit TLT, for example by ensuring any possible corruption was pretty recent?

Eh, given how little time it took to construct the likes of Theramore, it isn't that weird for them to build all that in 15 years. And the culture, however many years, though short, with the Beledar's cycling and the sudden dangers would impose changes pretty quick, I feel. Look at our own society and how things changed, least for a time, with the pandemic.

And as others have said, I don't think anything changed, I think it was at least partly players misunderstanding things.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

What would be the worst choices for story/lore revolving the Arathi Empire in your opinion(s)?

There's going to be some time that needs to pass before the Arathi are featured prominently, but, what are some threads Blizzard could tell that would just utterly ruin the entire plot around them?

For example: the Arathi Empire's emperor being revealed to be a nathrezim in disguise.

[bruxx]

What would be the worst choices for story/lore revolving the Arathi Empire in your opinion(s)?

There's going to be some time that needs to pass before the Arathi are featured prominently, but, what are some threads Blizzard could tell that would just utterly ruin the entire plot around them?

For example: the Arathi Empire's emperor being revealed to be a nathrezim in disguise.

If after everything they have seen since BfA, Turalyon and the Lightorged want to side with them in purging the world of other impurities.
Alternatively, if the empire turns out to just be good light following guys that throw a jab at others every now and then.

This is a silly thing, but if they do go the Avaloren route with arthurian references, it better not do some knights of the round table as enemies bullshit, kind of runs counter to the fantasy of the light supremacy stuff

[Sondrelk]

What would be the worst choices for story/lore revolving the Arathi Empire in your opinion(s)?

There's going to be some time that needs to pass before the Arathi are featured prominently, but, what are some threads Blizzard could tell that would just utterly ruin the entire plot around them?

For example: the Arathi Empire's emperor being revealed to be a nathrezim in disguise.

Worst choice to me would be to make them a predominantly friendly faction in a single island expansion. (Admittedly it might be difficult to explore a continent over several expansions, but they need to at least give impression to whatever place we find is the size of EK.)

The Arathi needs to be an overtly xenophobic and insular empire spanning a large continent.
If we go to them and they are just a nice people with the usual issues of cults and what have you the impact of then is kinda lost.
In many ways they should take the place the Scarlet Crusade used to have. A giant mass of evil humans for everyone to fight.

You could make the empire friendly eventually. But they should predominantly be used to explain the evil crusader aesthetic, rather than to have yet another branch of friendly humans.

[Alanar]

What would be the worst choices for story/lore revolving the Arathi Empire in your opinion(s)?

There's going to be some time that needs to pass before the Arathi are featured prominently, but, what are some threads Blizzard could tell that would just utterly ruin the entire plot around them?

For example: the Arathi Empire's emperor being revealed to be a nathrezim in disguise.

I mean, nothing really. Them being half elven was already enough, they should have been an offshoot of the Vrykull to begin with. Its such a stupid story. We found eachother and were happy ever since. It all sounds like they met eachother only a couple years ago. Double points if the emperor is an elf. Or as one of the npcs calls themselves: " I am not an elf, I am an Arathi" /palm.

It doesnt need much anymore, the story will write itself here imo.

[micwini]

Worst choice to me would be to make them a predominantly friendly faction in a single island expansion. (Admittedly it might be difficult to explore a continent over several expansions, but they need to at least give impression to whatever place we find is the size of EK.)

The Arathi needs to be an overtly xenophobic and insular empire spanning a large continent.
If we go to them and they are just a nice people with the usual issues of cults and what have you the impact of then is kinda lost.
In many ways they should take the place the Scarlet Crusade used to have. A giant mass of evil humans for everyone to fight.

You could make the empire friendly eventually. But they should predominantly be used to explain the evil crusader aesthetic, rather than to have yet another branch of friendly humans.

I hate how every faction lately needs to have "lol but some of us are good". Just let a faction be enemy only for once. Forsworn were dumb. Vyranoth turning was dumb. Some druids of the flame being good was dumb. Friendly Nerubians are equally as dumb. Before you know it, we have friendly void lords in midnight

[Sondrelk]

The half elf stuff never made much sense to me.. like we see blood elf model being used for npcs.. again..Did they breed with elves? Right so were are the actual elves at? Most importantly.. is.. the why?? Like why are there even elves there.

The arathi would be ten times cooler, when it was a human/vrykul offshoot. Something that makes sense as an old Arathi offshoot. With Hallowfall being done and completed, I can say, I am just not interested anymore in seeing more of them. They are quite, what ever to me. I hoped there was more to them, but they are in fact really damn boring.

Also idk what the exact timeframe is, but the ammount what they were able to built is interesting and why they never thought of looking beyond the damn cave is also weird to me. They also got there in the first place.

I can't imagine there were many pure blooded elves that joined them in the original journey to wherever they went. Not to mention that the elves that joined were Hugh elves from Quel'thalas, who while long lived, are definitely not immortal like what the Night Elves of Kalimdor were.

Most, if not all the pure blooded elves are likely dead I would imagine. And the ones with more predominantly elvish traits like the mage and the Great Kyron are probably more rare in their society.

[Makabreska]

For example: the Arathi Empire's emperor being revealed to be a nathrezim in disguise.

Yes, I would really prefer not to go for this lame and overused trope. Like, ever again. Y'all member SL reveal of how many characters from the past suddenly where Nathrezim? Ooooof, what a time!

[Alanar]

I hate how every faction lately needs to have "lol but some of us are good". Just let a faction be enemy only for once. Forsworn were dumb. Vyranoth turning was dumb. Some druids of the flame being good was dumb. Friendly Nerubians are equally as dumb. Before you know it, we have friendly void lords in midnight

The other way around is equally as dumb. It just becomes fodder very fast.

[Sondrelk]

I hate how every faction lately needs to have "lol but some of us are good". Just let a faction be enemy only for once. Forsworn were dumb. Vyranoth turning was dumb. Some druids of the flame being good was dumb. Friendly Nerubians are equally as dumb. Before you know it, we have friendly void lords in midnight

I imagine we will join some kind of resistance movement when we eventually get to Avaloren or whatever. So what would be fun if is the Empire splinters, and whatever friendly faction of Arathi joins us is only a small part of the greater, still hostile, empire.

[Sondrelk]

The other way around is equally as dumb. It just becomes fodder very fast.

It's not like we don't have fun and beloved factions in WoW who are just there for villain fodder. The Scarlet Crusader as I mentioned before is pretty much just in the game to be evil. The Naga are basically always evil, barring the occasional straggler. Demons obviously.

It would be nice to have a reasonably constant threat that can be brought back whenever needed. And the Arathi would be perfect. They are established as Xenophobic. They have a cool aesthetic. They are on the other side of Azeroth, so you don't constantly need to justify why they are not attacking us at full force or vice versa. And at the same time you can always justify a group of saboteurs showing up at inopportune moments, or an expeditionary force landing a beachhead in Northrend or what have you.

[Alanar]

I can't imagine there were many pure blooded elves that joined them in the original journey to wherever they went. Not to mention that the elves that joined were Hugh elves from Quel'thalas, who while long lived, are definitely not immortal like what the Night Elves of Kalimdor were.

Most, if not all the pure blooded elves are likely dead I would imagine. And the ones with more predominantly elvish traits like the mage and the Great Kyron are probably more rare in their society.

Exactly, but they are seemingly blended so well now, and appeanrtly they call themselves "one" at this point.

Its a half elf empire of the light, but It kinda becomes redicidulous when we are told that actual elves arent there anymore. We have actual long living elves all around us, you dont need to be immortal for that. The fusion of the humans and elves here in such a way sounds rediculous.

I am not a fan of this story at all. Anything half, half orc, half elf, half dreanei. I am just not interested. It would need to be a completely own culture to be interesting. This never worked and always ends up, one being more dominating or none at all. In the case of the Arathi, its not that deep and its just humans with weird ears.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not like we don't have fun and beloved factions in WoW who are just there for villain fodder. The Scarlet Crusader as I mentioned before is pretty much just in the game to be evil. The Naga are basically always evil, barring the occasional straggler. Demons obviously.

It would be nice to have a reasonably constant threat that can be brought back whenever needed. And the Arathi would be perfect. They are established as Xenophobic. They have a cool aesthetic. They are on the other side of Azeroth, so you don't constantly need to justify why they are not attacking us at full force or vice versa. And at the same time you can always justify a group of saboteurs showing up at inopportune moments, or an expeditionary force landing a beachhead in Northrend or what have you.

In some cases, most of them becomes repetitive. Been a complaint for many years. Anyway, many have spoken out in the past, that they either want to join the faction or gain rep with some shady part of it just as an example here.. When ever the Scarlet crusade pops up next time, people will expect more of them then what you are suggesting.

They dont need to be allied perse, but could act in a more neutral way. I dont think there is anything wrong with a small section of those in question to behave differently. In an rp kind of way there are a lot of options there. Just villain fodder and just want them to be killed is pretty one dimentional. Scarlet crusade became a joke because of that.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The base expansion feels a bit like Danuser's leftovers. When Metzen came in it was very deep in development so he couldn't change much even if he tried to shoehorn it in his titan trilogy. We can see stuff that makes little sense and is not too connected to the world soul stuff like the Arathi on the other side of the planed, who created hallowfall in less than 20 years and the nerubians who are kinda just there and dealt with. There's not even a quest that sends you there to kill the queen, who does basically nothing as she was basically replaced by xalatath in all cinematics where she should've shown up.

We have seen them chance and add quest with in a month on the beta and PTR, they are locked into areas fight designs model, ect but not things like adding a quest to go kill the spider or changing the duration of hallowfalls set up.

The fact that they didn’t add/change said things is on metzen and the current team.

[Ersula]

The base expansion feels a bit like Danuser's leftovers. When Metzen came in it was very deep in development so he couldn't change much even if he tried to shoehorn it in his titan trilogy.

Metzen was formally announced as being in charge of all warcraft properties a year ago, but had that position since he revealed he was back at Blizzard early 2023. The War Within & the Entire Saga is Metzen's baby.

[Alanar]

Metzen was formally announced as being in charge of all warcraft properties a year ago, but had that position since he revealed he was back at Blizzard early 2023. The War Within & the Entire Saga is Metzen's baby.

Maybe the idea to turn it into a trilogy was from him, we dont know, but what we do know is that they were pretty much finnished on tww when ever he came in. Including groundwork. With that Idk if I would really call it hes baby perse, maybe he sees it like that, but many people/employees who already worked super hard on it, I can imagine would call it their baby as well.