The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nightshade711]

Leaks say Goblin Raid though

The only “leak” so far a single icon though, and icons haven’t been that consistent so far. Like the Ethereal boss having “ethereal raid” items. It is entirely possible we could have a single goblin boss in a non-goblin focused raid.

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It only applies to the trading post sets.

It is still a weird way to word it. They could’ve worded the examples like “All cloth wearers can transmog the mage set/weapons” instead of saying “mail wearers can transmog any mail piece”

It IS probably only the trading post sets - but it isn’t unheard of for them to lessen class restrictions. Like the MoP remix tier sets didn’t have class restrictions - I’m currently transmogging the DK set on my Paladin with the corrupted ashbringer.

[milkmustache]

The only “leak” so far a single icon though, and icons haven’t been that consistent so far. Like the Ethereal boss having “ethereal raid” items. It is entirely possible we could have a single goblin boss in a non-goblin focused raid.

I agree that there's been some difference in consisitency, but I'd argue that the "etherealraid" icons were the one that break this pattern. 10.2 was leaked via items labeled "emeralddreamoutdoor", so it's not unheard of.

It could go either way, but I personally don't see Undermine being only a megadungeon. I think that they should use zones that exist when applicable, and this is maybe our one shot to see Undermine. Makes no sense in any other expansion, but it can work here. Xal returns to the goblins to repair the Dark Heart as they once did to the original Dragon Soul.

[allegrian]

A goblin patch with filler story would be disappointing even if the zone/raid are cool. The base raid already felt like unimportant in the grand scheme of things, it just feels like Metzen took what they had already done with TWW and undermined (no pun intended) the base story and threats of TWW and just made us hype/lust for xalatath, the main Midnight (and maybe TLT) villain, which is the first expansion fully thought out by Metzen.

[Mecheon]

To go by your list, some of those were praised and are much older then 2018, such as the tuskarr. The difference here ia that the Horronir seem to have a lot of options in terms of costumization. They have also been getting the most screentime in the cinematic, which is suspicious. Wowhead pushes this allied race idea here. I hope they are wrong.

I truly hope you are right and it stays with that list. But there are just more hints for this race to ens up being playable. If that actually happends. It will just be a slap in the face for all those people asking for Ogres for example who have been in the game for years were Haronir was made like yesterday and are not even cool (subjective I know) but still. Cmon it such a lame avatar wannabe with also the same skeleton as night elves.

Haranir have a player capable model in a time when the only player capable models being added are for player races, plus they're clearly troll/elves so are probably taking up the role dark trolls used to fill. bIts not quite as clear as "Vulpera are flagged a playable Horde allied race in the same patch Zandalari are added to the game", but its pretty clear they're likely to end up playable

Plus... Look, let's be honest. Tuskarr were basically ignored by everyone until DF and had basically no one requesting them as a race (Pandaren were infinitely more requested than them, despite people's insistence these days that Pandaren, one of the most requested Warcraft races, wasn't somehow highly requested), and ogres lost to goblins back in Cata, plus they don't work for the current neutral allied race thing Blizzard seem to do given their links to the Horde. Unless you really want to argue that ogres should be a neutral allied race which, I don't t think is a popular take

[Nibelheimy]

Tuskarr have been a long time fan favourite request since Wrath. I remember threads devoted to the one in Pandaria finally showing they didn't have to just live in Northrend and they could be playable.

[milkmustache]

A goblin patch with filler story would be disappointing even if the zone/raid are cool. The base raid already felt like unimportant in the grand scheme of things, it just feels like Metzen took what they had already done with TWW and undermined (no pun intended) the base story and threats of TWW and just made us hype/lust for xalatath, the main Midnight (and maybe TLT) villain, which is the first expansion fully thought out by Metzen.

I don't disagree that Midnight and The Last Titan will both be the real meat of this saga, but I don't think that an Undermine patch will necessarily be filler. I think that goblins are often looked at as comedic relief in Warcraft, and while they do provide a significant amount of that, their existence in the world is a solid piece of what makes Warcraft what it is.

That being said, I must repeat my point that I made before: Neltharion having used goblins to help him reforge the Dragon Soul and the Dark Heart being a device made in it's image that just happened to get damaged is a knock out of the park for the inclusion of Undermine in this saga. We don't have to see Gallywix as the big bad, nor necessarily strictly goblins, but a faction of goblins mixed with Xalatath's ethereal forces working together to repair the Dark Heart while she's off doing XYZ, maybe in the Rootlands.

My point being there's plenty of reason for us to be there in the current storyline.

[allegrian]

I don't disagree that Midnight and The Last Titan will both be the real meat of this saga, but I don't think that an Undermine patch will necessarily be filler. I think that goblins are often looked at as comedic relief in Warcraft, and while they do provide a significant amount of that, their existence in the world is a solid piece of what makes Warcraft what it is.

That being said, I must repeat my point that I made before: Neltharion having used goblins to help him reforge the Dragon Soul and the Dark Heart being a device made in it's image that just happened to get damaged is a knock out of the park for the inclusion of Undermine in this saga. We don't have to see Gallywix as the big bad, nor necessarily strictly goblins, but a faction of goblins mixed with Xalatath's ethereal forces working together to repair the Dark Heart while she's off doing XYZ, maybe in the Rootlands.

My point being there's plenty of reason for us to be there in the current storyline.

We'll see. I hope that we get Gnome content in TLT as well, with ulduar, mimiron and the tinker class. I feel they've been just using goblins for techie stuff in wow since mechagon and I'm starting to grow tired of goblins. Their inclusion in Az Kahet felt very forced and out of place in a zone that already struggled with an unfocused story (rushed nerubians, Ansurek small presence and rushed Haranir).

[Darkarath]

We'll see. I hope that we get Gnome content in TLT as well, with ulduar, mimiron and the tinker class. I feel they've been just using goblins for techie stuff in wow since mechagon and I'm starting to grow tired of goblins. Their inclusion in Az Kahet felt very forced and out of place in a zone that already struggled with an unfocused story (rushed nerubians, Ansurek small presence and rushed Haranir).

Goblins in TWW are doing what they always do. For now there are a bunch of side quests about them and a few quests of the main campaign in which they are involved. I always enjoy Goblin quests, they make me laugh in the way they overexaggerate bad working conditions. This would probably be the main focus of the Goblin patch (seems pretty clear that we will have one now), basically repeating Gazlowe's short story in game.

I found the Harronir mysterious. They have very little development, but that is clearly on purpose. They practically do not talk, they should not be interacting with us... For now, I want to know more about them. If they end up serving an Old God of Life or something like that, it would be pretty amazing.

[Jaggler]

I always love the cope that the icon names mean nothing, even after Iron Horde, Kul Tiras, the Emerald Dream (and probably more i am forgetting now)

[Lady Atia]

We'll see. I hope that we get Gnome content in TLT as well, with ulduar, mimiron and the tinker class. I feel they've been just using goblins for techie stuff in wow since mechagon and I'm starting to grow tired of goblins. Their inclusion in Az Kahet felt very forced and out of place in a zone that already struggled with an unfocused story (rushed nerubians, Ansurek small presence and rushed Haranir).

Did .... did you really say you grow tired of goblin stuff BECAUSE OF MECHAGON, the literall gnome zone on crack?

Also Az'kahet was fine, and the Harronir there are clearly just a tease for the roots zone. Because you know, we actually complained about patches in Shadowlands having no propper build up (imagine for example if we have heard about Korthia during the level up campaign instead of it being a literal asspull via jailer chains, or if Sylvanas told us that the Jailer wants to go to Zereth Mortis etc). Also Ansurek was all over the max level campaign aswell as the Dalaran intro, she is a queen living in her palace, of course she's not running around like Arthas did in WotlK and sparing us every 5 quests lol.

[Enrif]

I don't think we will get a raid with the rootlands (Deepgrove is the name now?). The Haranir and Black Blood thing is still quite mysterious, and another nature raid so shortly after Amirdrassil wouldn't go well. A zone, sure, i can see that. But if we get only 2 major patches, one of them has to be Beledar focused, as it is the biggest hanging fruit in the whole of TWW. If we wouldn't have the goblin raid icons i wouldn't even entertain the idea of a goblin zone/raid, but alas, they do exist.

If we go to the rootlands it will be in connection with the goblins. Someone brought up that Xal could get the dark heart to the goblins to repair it. That actually sounds rather plausible. The dark heart seems to be connected to the Black Blood, the main story certainly painted that picture. We know the Black Blood is at the roots. Now, if the goblins need the Black Blood to repair the Dark Heart, we would have a goblin incursion into the rootlands, which could lead the otherway to undermine. A connected zone Rootlands+Undermine for the 11.1 patch with the raid being goblin focused and not nature focused.

[Dracullus]

I always love the cope that the icon names mean nothing, even after Iron Horde, Kul Tiras, the Emerald Dream (and probably more i am forgetting now)

Show me who said icon datamining means nothing, look like you builded a strawman. It's very easy to disprove that datamined icon means nothing, as you did, all you need is 1 example. But it's ridiculous to claim datamining stuff must mean something, we had plenty of datamined content that led nowhere.

[Lady Atia]

I don't think we will get a raid with the rootlands (Deepgrove is the name now?). The Haranir and Black Blood thing is still quite mysterious, and another nature raid so shortly after Amirdrassil wouldn't go well. A zone, sure, i can see that. But if we get only 2 major patches, one of them has to be Beledar focused, as it is the biggest hanging fruit in the whole of TWW. If we wouldn't have the goblin raid icons i wouldn't even entertain the idea of a goblin zone/raid, but alas, they do exist.

If we go to the rootlands it will be in connection with the goblins. Someone brought up that Xal could get the dark heart to the goblins to repair it. That actually sounds rather plausible. The dark heart seems to be connected to the Black Blood, the main story certainly painted that picture. We know the Black Blood is at the roots. Now, if the goblins need the Black Blood to repair the Dark Heart, we would have a goblin incursion into the rootlands, which could lead the otherway to undermine. A connected zone Rootlands+Undermine for the 11.1 patch with the raid being goblin focused and not nature focused.

Tbh, I think they will resolve Beledar via the Mega Dungeon. Similiar to DotI which led into TWW this could be our first glimpse at light vs void for Midnight.

Good call with the goblins helping Xal repair the heart though, didn't thought about that. Cute theory, although I think if she repairs it, it will be via the void directly (or they say that goblins did help Neltharion to create the heart in the first place, which could work I guess).

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For the goblin raid, they could also pull a Siege of Orgrimmar and have us starting with the defence of the Deeprove, than jumping on a goblin train and finally invading Gallys homebase. That said, I still hope we get both the Dreamgrove and Undermine as zones, because wasting stuff in instanced content only makes the world smaller (talking about you, island expeditions, Tazavesh and Eternal Palace!). Also, I would expect Broker allies aswell to spice up Gallys forces, and there is a void balrog under Undermine aswell iirc. - threw in some genesaur-type boss at the start of the raid and you have lots of varied encounters aswell as a big pallete cleanser through the raid, which would be fun after the quite samey looking palace raid.

[Jaggler]

Tbh, I think they will resolve Beledar via the Mega Dungeon. Similiar to DotI which led into TWW this could be our first glimpse at light vs void for Midnight.

Good call with the goblins helping Xal repair the heart though, didn't thought about that. Cute theory, although I think if she repairs it, it will be via the void directly (or they say that goblins did help Neltharion to create the heart in the first place, which could work I guess).

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For the goblin raid, they could also pull a Siege of Orgrimmar and have us starting with the defence of the Deeprove, than jumping on a goblin train and finally invading Gallys homebase. That said, I still hope we get both the Dreamgrove and Undermine as zones, because wasting stuff in instanced content only makes the world smaller (talking about you, island expeditions, Tazavesh and Eternal Palace!). Also, I would expect Broker allies aswell to spice up Gallys forces, and there is a void balrog under Undermine aswell iirc. - threw in some genesaur-type boss at the start of the raid and you have lots of varied encounters aswell as a big pallete cleanser through the raid, which would be fun after the quite samey looking palace raid.

I personally think the rootlands would be a nice megadungeon. 11.1 being about undermine, 11.2 being about beledar and it's voidiness which takes us into midnight.

[Alanar]

Haranir have a player capable model in a time when the only player capable models being added are for player races, plus they're clearly troll/elves so are probably taking up the role dark trolls used to fill. bIts not quite as clear as "Vulpera are flagged a playable Horde allied race in the same patch Zandalari are added to the game", but its pretty clear they're likely to end up playable

Plus... Look, let's be honest. Tuskarr were basically ignored by everyone until DF and had basically no one requesting them as a race (Pandaren were infinitely more requested than them, despite people's insistence these days that Pandaren, one of the most requested Warcraft races, wasn't somehow highly requested), and ogres lost to goblins back in Cata, plus they don't work for the current neutral allied race thing Blizzard seem to do given their links to the Horde. Unless you really want to argue that ogres should be a neutral allied race which, I don't t think is a popular take

Reused night elf skeleton with lots of options, which was datamined. I truly hope they dont add this race. Its beyond boring and to out of the blue for people to really care. I will speculate it will end up being less played, because its to Alien and has no further connections to the warcraft we know. I really dont care about them at all. They feel like a wannabe Avatar ripoff and frankly just uninteresting. I feel the same way about Dracthyr for example. Same artists btw.

Not really, we have seen tons of/enough request threads for these races in the past. The activity on the forums has been a steady decline and looks more like people are simply tired of asking after 20 years. I am one of those as well. Pandaren were likely at the same if not less requested then Ogres/arrakoa or Vrykul. People needed heavy convincing at the time that this wasnt more then a meme race from warcraft 3. Even when MoP came along the same skeptical concerns were pressent.

Goblins were also a race horde players wanted to play, pandaren was a bc race if we have to believe blizz. The story probably didnt work as well as they thought. We got pandaren anyway, so ogres are not that far off. You can see the ogre model or skeleton/animations have been updated with the moonkin form. Allied races are to random to really see such a pattern. Some races are more unique then others and some have their own animationa and some dont. I agree Ogres dont fit this and deserve to be their own "new" race option in the character select screen. I feel the same way for Arrakoa and Vrykul, but they could end up in either really if they wanted to.

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Tuskarr have been a long time fan favourite request since Wrath. I remember threads devoted to the one in Pandaria finally showing they didn't have to just live in Northrend and they could be playable.

I also remember this. People spend a lot of time creating long threads with pictures to convince blizz. But they ignore most of that and for some reason like to add random races like Vulpera better. It goes against the wishes of the community. People are simply tired and stopped caring.

[Valysar]

Renilash is for 11.0 or 12.0, according to you ?

[Nightshade711]

I always love the cope that the icon names mean nothing, even after Iron Horde, Kul Tiras, the Emerald Dream (and probably more i am forgetting now)

Hyped for the Ethereal Raid this xpac since we’ve got several icons named such

[Eldryth]

Renilash is for 11.0 or 12.0, according to you ?

Midnight. It's pretty much exactly what Metzen told us Midnight's story would be about.

[Cheezits]

Why do people think that a zone the devs have wanted since Vanilla and teased ingame since Cata doesn't have precedence over a complete OC Danuser zone?

By the way, I think we will get both Goblin and Haranir patches and zones, but the idea that the concepts will get merged or the Haranir will take precedence because "Goblins silly" is dumb. There are equal Venture Co and Haranir representation at launch, and arguably more Venture Co through the dungeon.

[milkmustache]

Hyped for the Ethereal Raid this xpac since we’ve got several icons named such

This is the part that stumps me over it all. I just don't see there being an Ethereal raid, which makes the icons confusing.

The only thing I can sort of think of is that an Ethereal raid was planned earlier in development, but got shuffled around and is now moved to Midnight. These bits are leftovers from it, along with Ky'veza's inclusion in Nerub'ar with no other mention of Ethereals aside from the one abducting nerubians in the Burrows. I'm fairly certain that the icons matched the trinkets dropped by Ky'veza, which makes it weird why the singlular boss would break naming format. The Ethereal's inclusion altogether feels like a thread thrown in to bring us closer to a cohesive story, especially with Ky'veza's dialogue with an unknown master (if it was Xal, why wouldn't she just say so?) and her survival in the fight.

An Ethereal raid would be awesome regardless, especially if it finally gives us playable Ethereals.

Why do people think that a zone the devs have wanted since Vanilla and teased ingame since Cata doesn't have precedence over a complete OC Danuser zone?

By the way, I think we will get both Goblin and Haranir patches and zones, but the idea that the concepts will get merged or the Haranir will take precedence because "Goblins silly" is dumb. There are equal Venture Co and Haranir representation at launch, and arguably more Venture Co through the dungeon.

It's also something to note that the amount of references to Undermine lately have been increasing, including in SoD where we see the Tarnished Undermine Real currency and Undermine Trader NPCs. Xal'atath has been inserted in SoD to help weave her story into the Saga, so I don't see why something like this would also apply.

I still think we'll get a Haranir patch, and with someone else's previous suggestion that it could be a far spookier briarpatch forest, I'm super excited at the idea. It's also obvious that there's a heavy possibility of them becoming an allied race at some point down the line with their customization features, so I couldn't imagine we never visit their full community.

I'm still torn on a Beledar patch. I think it'll be the megadungeon because I truly have no clue what it could bring. We know it's a Naaru ship, but anything past that is up in the air, and it's really exciting. I'm still in the copium that they full circle the AU Draenor plot by having the Naaru timeywimey teleport the Lightbound armies on a ship to Azeroth. It'd be funny if they were just stuck inside for 15 years and summoned the Arathi to try and help, but they've just been twiddling their thumbs and worshipping. It would give a little context to the inclusion of Geya'rah, Gorgonna and the Warsong tribe as the bulk force for the Horde troops. Wildhammer checks out with Kurdran and the Earthen, Warsong would check out with them having to face orcs who betrayed the Mag'har (led by Warsong chieftan Grommash) to join the Lightbound.