The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

On the older Azeroth maps the Hills of Maisara look as big as Quel'thalas if not bigger. I think having the Eastweald (WPL, EPL and the Bay of Stratholme area), Quel'thalas (Ghostlands and Eversong but without Silvermoon), Hills of Maisara (a large zone to the east of Quel'thalas) and then a fourth zone that combines Silvermoon and Isle of Quel'Danas would work. I still think there is a big issue with verticality; skyriding simply doesn't work as well if you cannot at least occasionally take advantage of large differences in elevation (it still works but you need to pay a bit attention and build altitude while flying). The Amani area could be made somewhat higher than it is supposed to be in lore and Silvermoon/IQD can have really high towers.

Btw as an idea; maybe Silvermoon is NOT the expansion Capital. Stratholme could be the capital instead and Silvermoon could be occupied/corrupted by Void or a battleground between Void and the Arathi empire or even under Naga control. Perhaps the entire Silvermoon/IQD area could even be phased INSIDE the Void (corrupted Sunwell would have drawn the surrounding areas into the Void) and used as a way to add an additional Void zone as a patch zone. That way in 12.2.5 they drop the phasing and you get access to Silvermoon in the proper map with some event to restore it and 12.2.7 having a complete version of Silvermoon available to everyone but like Bel'ameth.

Skyriding requiring verticality is one of those things that I feel will just have to be ignored for any revamp. Even more so when you consider that Skyriding works best when you have to dodge obstacles as well, which is why I think it works so much better in TWW compared to DF.

The zones south of Quel'danas are much more vertical though. Even if only by a tiny amount. The small valleys in Eastern Plaguelands, or the troll city in the Hinterlands for instance.
There could absolutely be some tweaking to the zones to make them more vertical as well. But I imagine that making zones as vertical as the ones in DF and TWW is just not going to happen in any revamped zone that isn't already designed that way, and we will just have to accept that.


Agree on Silvermoon though. I want that city to stay hostile like Suramar for at least a good while.
If they want it to be friendly again later for the sake of having it be a Belf capital I would argue they should just make a version without the hostile adds, and then add a Bronze dragon to transport you back. Very much like how the Nighthold in Suramar is phased in such a way as to be both a hostile area full of elites, and also a friendly hub for Nightborne.

[Nymrohd]

Skyriding requiring verticality is one of those things that I feel will just have to be ignored for any revamp. Even more so when you consider that Skyriding works best when you have to dodge obstacles as well, which is why I think it works so much better in TWW compared to DF.

The zones south of Quel'danas are much more vertical though. Even if only by a tiny amount. The small valleys in Eastern Plaguelands, or the troll city in the Hinterlands for instance.
There could absolutely be some tweaking to the zones to make them more vertical as well. But I imagine that making zones as vertical as the ones in DF and TWW is just not going to happen in any revamped zone that isn't already designed that way, and we will just have to accept that.

I think Quel'thalas is one of the few areas that really lack verticality. For example, Northrend will have absolutely no issue with it. Kalimdor has Hyjal, the mountains around Feralas and if needed you can add some walkable clouds that lead to Skywall. Similarly Blackrock keeps skyriding active in Azeroth and Khaz Modan already has verticality. Lordaeron has Alterac and Hinterlands plus the Greymane Wall. Quel'thalas really is the flattest area in Warcraft

As for my Void Silvermoon idea, you'd keep the Void area separate via loading screen and it would be available as an area effectively in the past. The huge shadow effect that would have enveloped the area will collapse at a patch as part of a cinematic and then we get to do some rebuilding (and maybe fending off an Arathi attack).

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Preservation is also extremely strong consistently. Heck I'd say in the current season, all the Evoker specs are S or A tier.

Preservation is in a very strong place at the moment, but half of that is due to its design as a healing spec. Excelling at burst AoE healing during a season where majority of incoming damage (enemy damage that is also tuned very high at the moment, mind you) is also AoE... of course Preservation would be strong.

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I assume Dracthyr numbers will probably be decent by virtue of Evokers being consistently OP since released, worse than even DKs back in Wrath.

While Devastation is (in my opinion) very fun to play, it's not in a good spot compared to other damage specializations at the moment.

[Golden Yak]

They will definitely make the space slightly bigger by adding in some areas on the east coast or in the mountains. Alongside stuff like Isle of Quel'danas being a part of the zone.
But even with all of that there still isn't really enough you can do to justify Ghostlands and Eversong being more than a single modern zone. Something will have to be added that isn't just Quel'danas, and I think that something will be a revamped Northern EK.æ

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A whole lot of this just strikes me as trying to justify scaling up the Blood Elf zones when you could have just used existing zones.

A bit of added stuff makes sense. Expanded Zul'aman and surrounding areas for instance. But undead stuff is also available if you just expand further down into the Plaguelands, where both Stratholme and Scholomance are.

Sure, the focus is just on Quel'thalas because that was what was described as the setting for Midnight, so the focus is on that region. If they'd mentioned Lordaeron as well there'd be no question of plenty of available resources. A 'Northern Eastern Kingdoms' revamp has tons of territory to cover. I don't think it's strictly necessary though, and personally I'd prefer to see what a full rebuild would produce as opposed to just touching up older zones.

I think Quel'thalas is one of the few areas that really lack verticality. For example, Northrend will have absolutely no issue with it. Kalimdor has Hyjal, the mountains around Feralas and if needed you can add some walkable clouds that lead to Skywall. Similarly Blackrock keeps skyriding active in Azeroth and Khaz Modan already has verticality. Lordaeron has Alterac and Hinterlands plus the Greymane Wall. Quel'thalas really is the flattest area in Warcraft

We need the Void to rip some chunks of land up, scatter 'em around in the air, give us something to fly around on.

Hey, do that to the Isle of Quel'Danas! Have the Voidwell pull that whole place up out of the sea, have it floating up in the sky raining down Void darkness everywhere.

[Nymrohd]

We need the Void to rip some chunks of land up, scatter 'em around in the air, give us something to fly around on.

Hey, do that to the Isle of Quel'Danas! Have the Voidwell pull that whole place up out of the sea, have it floating up in the sky raining down Void darkness everywhere.

Honestly I always want more fantasy geography regardless of skyriding. I think Warcraft doesn't do as much as it can with its level design and given how many zones exist with similar themes, I wish they'd be more radical.

[Futhark]

Dracthyr numbers will be inflated by Augmentation if nothing else. The fact that it's the only spec in the game that offers the support DPS playstyle makes it appealing even if it wasn't also the ideal M+ spec.

Eagerly awaiting a support spec given to another class, or Aug given to another race (somehow).

Maybe one day we will get the improvements to transmog that makes people want to play Dracthyr because they look cool on their own merits. But until then I imagine it's mostly going to be because of Visage form.

I will be rolling a mage that will never leave Visage mode because the beards are the best humanoid beards for a human-like caster and I want to look like a real Human wizard.
Horns=none. Ears=short.

[Ersula]

Eagerly awaiting a support spec given to another class, or Aug given to another race (somehow).

Does anyone actually like the Oracle Redesign? Seems like the only people who complained were never going to play it anyway, and screwed us out of an ideal support raid healer.

[Joshuaj]

This isn't 11.0 relevant, but apparently, in the DF codex book, Khadgar stated that the Infinite Dragon that took a First One relic in 9.1 was deemed as dire a situation as the possibility of Murozond happening in the true timeline (This was never talked about for some unknown reason).

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Found that pretty interesting lol. Means even the small Progenitor relics must be incredibly powerful if used to their full potential.

[Khaza-R]

Honestly I always want more fantasy geography regardless of skyriding. I think Warcraft doesn't do as much as it can with its level design and given how many zones exist with similar themes, I wish they'd be more radical.

I could see Midnight doing an inverse of TWW and instead of diving into the depths of the planet we ascend upwards into the sky.

I just wonder if that would look like Yak's idea of floating islands in the sky or if we might traverse the Umbral Veil going to more cosmic locations

[Sondrelk]

Sure, the focus is just on Quel'thalas because that was what was described as the setting for Midnight, so the focus is on that region. If they'd mentioned Lordaeron as well there'd be no question of plenty of available resources. A 'Northern Eastern Kingdoms' revamp has tons of territory to cover. I don't think it's strictly necessary though, and personally I'd prefer to see what a full rebuild would produce as opposed to just touching up older zones.

It's definitely possible we just get Quel'thalas as the focus, and we just have new stuff to make two tiny zones into a full expansion. I just think there is far too much that is relevant to the Blood Elf storyline that doesn't make sense for us to ignore.
If we talk about Sylvanas and Arthas then we should mention the Forsaken, and more importantly Lordaeron. And since it's right there it would just be silly to not make use of it.
If we expect the Arathi to return, as indeed we are all but guaranteed to see in some fashion given the Hallowfall Arathi are stated to fight with us at Renilash, then bringing in the Scarlet Crusade makes sense. And just like Lordaeron, the Scarlet Monastery is a stones throw away. Not to mention Stratholme, Hearthglen, and Strom. All important locations for the Scarlet crusade.


Floating islands is a great idea though. Even if I think it's unlikely. If DF didnt do more with that idea then I think there are probably technical limitations that prevent us from seeing them.
Underwater locations for the Naga seem likely. Though I would be surprised if we got even a single dedicated underwater zone given the backlash to Vashj'ir. More likely it will just be the Naga invading shorelines like usual.

[Nebron]

The comments made suggest they don't want to completely remake it, they want it to feel like the same place just fresh. Like, Draenor Nagrand, despite being the closest zone to its original, still feels like a totally different zone.

I think the changes will be largely in the the texturing, polygon count, etc. Maybe some terrain touch ups, like in Cata where they fixed rivers to not be so impossible to get out of when you fall in, and made hills make a bit more sense, etc. I expect expansions will be on the ZA side or filling out the north of SMC, but most of Eversong and Ghostlands will remain as is but nicer.

I really think Cata is what people should be expecting. Like go take a look at Vanilla WPL/Trisifal/Silverpine, and Cata WPL/Tirisfal/Silverpine, and expect that.

Since the production of 3 expansion at the same time is well under way, it also requires a good pipelined development. Template of 4 levelling zones, 1 raid, +/- 8 dungeons at the start is what became a standard since Shadowlands really, and for sure it makes it easy for them to plan out the development of content.
And since it's 4 zones - there is no way they will keep their original size, as they need to have it compatible with skyriding, which at this point is a fundamental part of the gameplay.

So to be fair, I'd actually expect a full-scale makeover of these zones. Certainly, they will try to keep the topography of these zones intact, but the size and distances will most definitely change.

Also, if the result is expected to be awesome, personally I wouldn't mind to see floating islands, just like that, without much of an explanation. As long as it's cool, I'm totally fine with that

[Golden Yak]

It's definitely possible we just get Quel'thalas as the focus, and we just have new stuff to make two tiny zones into a full expansion. I just think there is far too much that is relevant to the Blood Elf storyline that doesn't make sense for us to ignore.
If we talk about Sylvanas and Arthas then we should mention the Forsaken, and more importantly Lordaeron. And since it's right there it would just be silly to not make use of it.
If we expect the Arathi to return, as indeed we are all but guaranteed to see in some fashion given the Hallowfall Arathi are stated to fight with us at Renilash, then bringing in the Scarlet Crusade makes sense. And just like Lordaeron, the Scarlet Monastery is a stones throw away. Not to mention Stratholme, Hearthglen, and Strom. All important locations for the Scarlet crusade.

It's definitely plausible, though I think all of the Arathi-related stuff might also serve as part of a larger storyline involving the full Arathi Empire. We've been told that one element of Midnight will be the unification of the elven races, so there's plenty of material to cover there already if you bring in void elves, high elves, nightborne and night elves. Arathi elements are part-elven, so Quel'thalas is technically also their homeland. There's a lot there already.

The Arathi Empire's claim on the kingdoms of their human lineage could itself be an entire expansion's worth of story, if the Empire begins some grand offensive post-Midnight to retake their homelands. I don't see that happening in Midnight what with the Void being a major focus, but post-Worldsoul Saga when we finally track down whatever land the Arathi Empire is currently established in that could be part of a more expansive 'Arathi Empire Saga' that includes their current land (Avaloren) and revamps of other classic region (a revamp tackling Lordaeron alone would be a lot of material - Lordaeron itself, Gilneas territories, Plaguelands, the Stromgarde regions, etc).

[Hitei]

Since the production of 3 expansion at the same time is well under way, it also requires a good pipelined development. Template of 4 levelling zones, 1 raid, +/- 8 dungeons at the start is what became a standard since Shadowlands really, and for sure it makes it easy for them to plan out the development of content.
And since it's 4 zones - there is no way they will keep their original size

That assumes the four 12.0 zones have to match up with the existing zones, rather than all four of the old zones being merged and lightly modified into one new slightly larger Quel'thalas zone.

[Worldshaper]

1. Xal'atath does her thing, alerting the Titans that their grip on the worldsoul is slipping.

2. The emboldened forces of the Void attack the Sunwell, seeking to cover the world in eternal night.

3. The Horde and Alliance defend Azeroth in Quel'thalas. But the Arathi from Avaloren seize the chance to invade Azeroth. Odyn is the one who turns the key to stop the storms from raging around Avaloren, letting the Arathi out.

4. Horde and Alliance race to Northrend to stop the invasion, but as they face Odyn, Iridikron is with him. The Titans arrive, and we watch them walk into a trap.

5. The expansion is about us seeking to repair the damage caused by the two vengeful traitors Odyn and Iridikron, in order to ultimately push back the Arathi invasion. We venture across Northrend to salvage what we can from the brutal assault on the Titans.

6. However, it turns out that Renilash was only partly about the Void. It takes place as Midnight darkens the sky, yes. But the last star to fade in the sky is actually the High Seat of the Pantheon. It fades during TLT. The Arathi are seeking to conquer the world for the Light, including ridding it of Titan influence.

7. In the end, Sargeras is the last Titan, and Illidan does return to help us take back Azeroth and save the worldsoul. But Sargeras will have a huge role. Probably by picking up his own sword and slaying a secret 5th Old God behind much of this. Then he leaves, leaving the ultimate fate of himself, Titans in general, and the Burning Legion, uncertain but open-ended.

8. With TLT finished, the way into Avaloren remains open. So post Worldsoul Saga, we venture there.

[Nebron]

That assumes the four 12.0 zones have to match up with the existing zones, rather than all four of the old zones being merged and lightly modified into one new slightly larger Quel'thalas zone.

Yeah, I mean, I don't believe they are going to merge these zones into a single one. After all, for what we know for sure, is that we are returning to Quel'thalas - so the only thing that's safe to assume is that it's the only thing we get at the beginning, therefore no Lordaeron and so merging wouldn't make sense.

Personally, I'd loooove to see the entire Northern Lordaeron remade, with Quel'thalas being what you suggest in your comment, merged zones. My dream for 12.0 would be:
1. Eversong Woods + Ghostlands (with Silvermoon as a neutral capital city with Suramar-like vibes, connected to Quel'Danas with a huge bridge just for the sakes of visuals);
2. Lordaeron (Tirisfal + Plaguelands - with Arathi, Scarlet Crusade, Silver Hand and Turalyon plotlines);
3. Amani Lands (partially void-infected);
4. Isle of Quel'Danas as the endgame content with Corrupted Sunwell as the first raid;

Midnight fits Light vs Void theme perfectly, so it's a great opportunity for the Army of the Light wet dream to come true
and since we know Sunwell could have served as a portal to summon Kil'jaedan, why not allow Turalyon to summon Yrel and her army through purified Sunwell for Renilash as a finale for 12.0 campaign

[Foolicious]

Does anyone actually like the Oracle Redesign? Seems like the only people who complained were never going to play it anyway, and screwed us out of an ideal support raid healer.

To be fair it was blizzard that gave up pretty quickly on oracle. The initial feedback was mostly that the buffs that replaced power infusion were not comparable and hard to use. Which was a valid complaint especially for m+ content. They kept the rotating buff gameplay, but just scrapped the support part within a week without even trying to make it work.

[milkmustache]

Yeah, I mean, I don't believe they are going to merge these zones into a single one. After all, for what we know for sure, is that we are returning to Quel'thalas - so the only thing that's safe to assume is that it's the only thing we get at the beginning, therefore no Lordaeron and so merging wouldn't make sense.

Personally, I'd loooove to see the entire Northern Lordaeron remade, with Quel'thalas being what you suggest in your comment, merged zones. My dream for 12.0 would be:
1. Eversong Woods + Ghostlands (with Silvermoon as a neutral capital city with Suramar-like vibes, connected to Quel'Danas with a huge bridge just for the sakes of visuals);
2. Lordaeron (Tirisfal + Plaguelands - with Arathi, Scarlet Crusade, Silver Hand and Turalyon plotlines);
3. Amani Lands (partially void-infected);
4. Isle of Quel'Danas as the endgame content with Corrupted Sunwell as the first raid;

Midnight fits Light vs Void theme perfectly, so it's a great opportunity for the Army of the Light wet dream to come true
and since we know Sunwell could have served as a portal to summon Kil'jaedan, why not allow Turalyon to summon Yrel and her army through purified Sunwell for Renilash as a finale for 12.0 campaign

If we get the Lordaeron revamp we should have with BFA included in this expansion, I will jump for joy.

I do expect the Plaguelands/Zul'Aman to maybe be combined into "Maisara Hills" although.

[huth]

Why on earth would you store HP and damage values in floating points instead of integers?

You're gonna have to ask Blizzard for the specific reasoning. But they did.

[milkmustache]

There was a post on Reddit where someone found a map of Draenor in Hallowfall. It's most likely just reuse of assets

But...

A light worshipping culture, in a zone with a giant Naaru crystal, with a "reused" asset of a map from where the last we heard of was being overrun by light fanatics?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Cheezits]

There was a post on Reddit where someone found a map of Draenor in Hallowfall. It's most likely just reuse of assets

But...

A light worshipping culture, in a zone with a giant Naaru crystal, with a "reused" asset of a map from where the last we heard of was being overrun by light fanatics?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Interestingly, the green part of the map is supposedly new and looks to have been taped on to the existing map. However it has a new landmass not from Draenor, though it features the eastern edge of Tanaan.



If someone can correct me asset wise, that would be great, but this could be a huge hint to where they were originally from (Draenor???? somehow??)