1. #79441
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    No, I'm saying your specific complaints and mannerisms are completely implausible as those of a 22-year-old. You'd be the WoW equivalent of Jacob Rees-Mogg if they're real. I.e. someone basically cosplaying the attitudes of someone 20 to 40 years older than them.
    He's likely not trying to imitate anyone, but simply choosing his words carefully. You can read plenty of 40 years old dudes and thinking they are 10 years old from their prose alone.

    Also, english may not be his first language, in which case he may have a more thoughful and mannered way of speaking, solely because he needs to think a bit more about his words than native speakers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    WC3 came out in 2002. You are claiming to be 22, and thus that you "grew up" playing a game that came out the year you were born. That seems pretty implausible, frankly. Especially as I doubt your parents were letting you play it at like 6 if they were skeptical of giving you unrestricted access to an MMO (i.e. fairly responsible). You might want to work your character background, honestly.
    I, too, grew up playing games from the year I was born (or close to it) ; it's absolutely not unusual, especially when said games are as great as WC3. Maybe his parents were WC3 players, and their son would have naturally been drawn towards it.
    Last edited by Zardas; 2024-10-09 at 12:06 AM.
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  2. #79442
    Quote Originally Posted by Nibelheimy View Post
    Presumably it is the top of the beledar, but this may or may not be 11.1.

    Do we see the beledar as more of a megadungeon or a raid? Is this zone our 11.1, or 11.1.5?

    Purely for mechanics, i could see the beledar for a megadungeon. 4 bosses in the light phase, 4 in the void, evenly split for mythic plus. But either is a possibility.
    Who even knows.
    In terms of what is relevant to the story compared to what is cool to see as an idea my guess would be Beledar raid and Undermine Megadungeon.
    However DF had Aberrus as the raid, and Dawn of the Infinite as the Megadungeon, despite the dungeon being the far more juicy bit of story.

    If I was a developer I would probably go for Undermine as the raid, and Beledar as the Megadungeon.
    Goblins will never be more relevant than they are now. And while the Beledar is important, it is also tied to the Arathi, whose aesthetic is almost guaranteed to be reused in a major way in future expansions.
    That way we get all the Goblin themed stuff we could ever want. And then also a dungeon that could give some Arathi themed armour and weapons. Possibly even something as simple as the Void themed stuff we have yet to see available to the players.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  3. #79443
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    If I was a developer I would probably go for Undermine as the raid, and Beledar as the Megadungeon.
    Goblins will never be more relevant than they are now. And while the Beledar is important, it is also tied to the Arathi, whose aesthetic is almost guaranteed to be reused in a major way in future expansions.
    That way we get all the Goblin themed stuff we could ever want. And then also a dungeon that could give some Arathi themed armour and weapons. Possibly even something as simple as the Void themed stuff we have yet to see available to the players.
    Someone had said previously that DF using it's megadungeon to tease aspects of future content was a really fun way to keep it relevent to the story.

    A Beledar megadungeon could not only tease what a literal physical battle between light and void looks like, but focusing on the Arathi builds their lore a bit more for when we see them later on.

  4. #79444
    Further musings.

    Ancient Kalimdor had days and nights, because Elune rested in the Well of Eternity by day according to Dark Troll lore, and the titan-forged named the continent in the twilight of their final day of work.

    But the land was named "land of eternal starlight" for a reason. What inspired the "eternal starlight" part?

    We also know the tauren Earth Mother mythology states that she lived alongside the Elementals in darkness, before she created An'she and Mu'sha. This myth has to have been inspired by something.

  5. #79445
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It's kinda weird that the Japanese of all people messed proper form up.
    To be fair, that's the fault of the English translation team. Not sure how the Japanese dub sounds to someone familiar with the language.
    But your duty to Azeroth is not yet complete. More is demanded of you... a price the living cannot pay.

  6. #79446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raetary View Post
    This is pretty dishonest.
    You literally don't know what the word "dishonest" means, incredible way to open a post. It's not a synonym or replacement for wrong. It's a character-insult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raetary View Post
    I also grew up on Wow and WC3, and i'm 23.

    Wow was the first big game i was exposed to, and access to WC3 followed promptly after that.
    I was a dumb 9 years old and sucked ass at both games, but that shit (clearly) shaped a large chunk of my life from then on.

    Both games are 20 and 22 years old respectively, literally a generation worth of time.
    Like idk what you think constitutes the idea of "growing up with something", but the general thumb is that subject had a large presence or impact on you, regardless of when it was released.
    As for this rest, you're not making the same wild claims as the other guy, and you're not putting on an affected and mannered performance that is deeply unconvincing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raetary View Post
    Most people in fact, grew up with things that came out when they were born or later.
    Yeah "or later". Very few, if any, 22 year olds "grew up with" WC3.
    "A youtuber said so."

    "... some wow experts being interviewed..."

    "According to researchers from Wowhead..."

  7. #79447
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanyel View Post
    To be fair, that's the fault of the English translation team. Not sure how the Japanese dub sounds to someone familiar with the language.
    Eh, the English translation team doing the German version would certainly explain it.

  8. #79448
    I’m not going back a rereading the 6 pages I’ve missed because y’all just be talking about absolutely nothing. Lmao
    But I don’t remember an ima take a look after work but when was the 2nd roadmap dropped? Was it after the last patch of the first one was dropped? Like should we be getting a new roadmap the same day as 11.05? Or will be it be out later?

  9. #79449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeram View Post
    Like should we be getting a new roadmap the same day as 11.05? Or will be it be out later?
    Not necessarily same day, but I don't think it'll be long after.
    "A youtuber said so."

    "... some wow experts being interviewed..."

    "According to researchers from Wowhead..."

  10. #79450
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Further musings.

    Ancient Kalimdor had days and nights, because Elune rested in the Well of Eternity by day according to Dark Troll lore, and the titan-forged named the continent in the twilight of their final day of work.

    But the land was named "land of eternal starlight" for a reason. What inspired the "eternal starlight" part?

    We also know the tauren Earth Mother mythology states that she lived alongside the Elementals in darkness, before she created An'she and Mu'sha. This myth has to have been inspired by something.
    This is something that folds into a thought I've had for a while, that it is kinda odd that "Elune" essentially has a stake in all of the cosmological forces. She's worshipped by users of the light, obviously is one of the primary figures for life, has ties with Eonar to a point where structures of Order like the Emerald Dream seem to be directly inspired by her (not even considering whatever it is we don't know yet about the Freysworn and Elun'ahir), the "night warrior" and twilight theme feels awfully voidy, her relationship with Ardenweald and the Winter Queen.

    Those thoughts aren't very cohesive, but my point being perhaps the naming "land of eternal starlight" and musings of Elune are not as separate of myths and legends as we think.

    Titan conspiracy in TLT is that Elune is Azeroth /s (but also...?)

  11. #79451
    Quote Originally Posted by milkmustache View Post
    This is something that folds into a thought I've had for a while, that it is kinda odd that "Elune" essentially has a stake in all of the cosmological forces. She's worshipped by users of the light, obviously is one of the primary figures for life, has ties with Eonar to a point where structures of Order like the Emerald Dream seem to be directly inspired by her (not even considering whatever it is we don't know yet about the Freysworn and Elun'ahir), the "night warrior" and twilight theme feels awfully voidy, her relationship with Ardenweald and the Winter Queen.

    Those thoughts aren't very cohesive, but my point being perhaps the naming "land of eternal starlight" and musings of Elune are not as separate of myths and legends as we think.

    Titan conspiracy in TLT is that Elune is Azeroth /s (but also...?)
    Yeah, that's all interesting to think about. The "upstart goddess," as Xal'atath put it.

    What kind of creature in Warcraft lore could achieve some type of godhood?

    Maybe a Naaru that had a special affection for Azeroth, taking on many roles over the years but always watching out for Life.

  12. #79452
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    Perhaps Elune was elevated to her status, much like Bwonsamdi was elevated by Mueh'zala.

    Which one indicate the one that reigns above Elune... depending on if they are apart of the force of Light, Life, or Void.

  13. #79453
    We're talking about the age of specific posters now? Damn we've sunk.
    Can someone try and guess me next then?
    I will not reply to posts that are non-constructive or contain flaming and/or trolling.

  14. #79454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeram View Post
    I’m not going back a rereading the 6 pages I’ve missed because y’all just be talking about absolutely nothing. Lmao
    But I don’t remember an ima take a look after work but when was the 2nd roadmap dropped? Was it after the last patch of the first one was dropped? Like should we be getting a new roadmap the same day as 11.05? Or will be it be out later?
    It was very close to end of year both for 2023 and 2024 map, we already had PTRs for January patches. This year could be different IF Warcraft Direct will be a thing in late 2024, it would be perfect opportunity for reveal.

    And I don't think that roadmap itself is that exciting as it won't have any spoilers (of course they could reveal few patches on same event, but that's separate from roadmap) and I doubt they will drastically change DF patch cycle.

  15. #79455
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    Perhaps Elune was elevated to her status, much like Bwonsamdi was elevated by Mueh'zala.

    Which one indicate the one that reigns above Elune... depending on if they are apart of the force of Light, Life, or Void.
    Elune was called an "upstart goddess" by Xal'atath which I always thought was interesting. Granted that's almost 10 year old lore at this point but I wonder if there will be any elaboration on that in a hypothetical rootlands patch.

    Personally my guess is that Life doesn't work like other forces. Instead of a pantheon Elune is a singular entity which multiple facets. Hence why Elune can use Light, Void, Order and even Death magic. The only thing she's really missing at this point is something connected to Disorder.

  16. #79456
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by milkmustache View Post
    This is something that folds into a thought I've had for a while, that it is kinda odd that "Elune" essentially has a stake in all of the cosmological forces. She's worshipped by users of the light, obviously is one of the primary figures for life, has ties with Eonar to a point where structures of Order like the Emerald Dream seem to be directly inspired by her (not even considering whatever it is we don't know yet about the Freysworn and Elun'ahir), the "night warrior" and twilight theme feels awfully voidy, her relationship with Ardenweald and the Winter Queen.

    Those thoughts aren't very cohesive, but my point being perhaps the naming "land of eternal starlight" and musings of Elune are not as separate of myths and legends as we think.

    Titan conspiracy in TLT is that Elune is Azeroth /s (but also...?)
    Pretty sure Elune has already officially been confirmed to be the Winter Queen's counterpart in the Pantheon of Life, which is the cosmic force we really know the least about beyond local manifestations like Wild Gods and the Emerald Dream. They could have all sorts of different theming and powers that differ from or expand on Life magic as we know it. And frankly, most of Elune's powers are related to her theming as a moon goddess: the moon is a celestial object, it reflects light, it waxes and wanes, it becomes eclipsed by other celestial objects. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she can also control the tides.

    As for the Light specifically, faith alone is often sufficient to call upon the Light, so worshippers of Elune may very well be able draw on the Light purely through their faith without Elune actually having any involvement whatsoever. Or, perhaps literally or metaphorically, she merely redirects Light from the Realm of Light to her worshippers, just as real moonlight is actually reflected sunlight.

    As for how she fully ties into all the other cosmic forces, I think that's getting into something that will likely be further expanded as we progress into and beyond the Worldsoul Saga: familial relationships between cosmic beings.

    She's the Winter Queen's sister, and I'd say that there's a very strong likelihood that An'she is inspired by member of the Pantheon of Light who would be their brother. Eonar was also one of her many lovers, and Xal'atath knows her as an "upstart goddess" suggesting that they may have encountered one another when the cosmos was still young and Elune was new to the scene.

    I personally have a theory, which I posted about in the Lore subforum quite a while back, that worldsouls are not inherently linked to any cosmic force, and can likely emerge within planets as well as moons, and there are also likely equivalents that can be born from stars--sunsouls, starsouls, whatever you want to call them--and so cosmic beings born from celestial objects that form solar systems become families. What cosmic force they ultimately embody is dependent upon which cosmic energy they become infused with.

    Under the natural order, I suspect that celestial beings of the Pantheons of Light, Void, and Disorder are born from stars--healthy stars that burn bright, stars that become black holes, and fel stars corrupted by the chaotic energies of the Twisting Nether. Celestial beings of the Pantheons of Life, Death, and Order are born from worlds--worlds teaming with biological life, worlds that suffer extinction events, and worlds dominated by elemental forces.

    At some point, the Pantheons discovered that they could influence how these souls developed and started trying to manipulated the process, all eventually setting their sights on Azeroth, the Prime Worldsoul.

    Anyway, theoretically speaking, you might have a scenario such as this: a sun imbued with Light shone on a planet that had a moon, and all three were imbued with nascent souls. Life took root on both worlds. However, at some point the sun's light ceased to shine upon the planet, and it was plunged into an eternal winter that lead to the extinction of all life on its surface and its worldsoul perished, becoming the Winter Queen of the Pantheon of Death. Its moon continued to flourish and became Elune of the Pantheon of Life. And the sun ultimately became An'she of the Pantheon of Light.

    There may be other such connections between other cosmic entities that we've already met and those we have yet to meet. I'm firmly of the opinion that there's an entire Pantheon of Disorder out there somewhere, likely imprisoned by the titans. Perhaps Denathrius is even a sibling of one of its members, perhaps he was born from a world in the Twisting Nether destroyed by his brother, a fel sun, just as an example of where that kind of idea could go.
    Last edited by Kathranis; 2024-10-09 at 06:35 PM.

  17. #79457
    Quote Originally Posted by milkmustache View Post
    This is something that folds into a thought I've had for a while, that it is kinda odd that "Elune" essentially has a stake in all of the cosmological forces. She's worshipped by users of the light, obviously is one of the primary figures for life, has ties with Eonar to a point where structures of Order like the Emerald Dream seem to be directly inspired by her (not even considering whatever it is we don't know yet about the Freysworn and Elun'ahir), the "night warrior" and twilight theme feels awfully voidy, her relationship with Ardenweald and the Winter Queen.

    Those thoughts aren't very cohesive, but my point being perhaps the naming "land of eternal starlight" and musings of Elune are not as separate of myths and legends as we think.

    Titan conspiracy in TLT is that Elune is Azeroth /s (but also...?)
    I've written about this before, but here it is again.

    Quote Originally Posted by hattahat View Post
    I think Elune's identity is pretty much confirmed at this point. Elune is the pantheon of life, and is involved with other cosmic forces.
    Elune approached and befriended the other cosmic powers purely out of a desire to see harmony and goodwill amongst all of them, and so one by one, she befriended the pantheons of the other powers and made deals with them.

    The Winter Queen of the Death faction is said to be Elune's sister, and we don't know if that's really because they were created together by a single creator, a first one, or if it's more of a blood-sister thing, but it's definitely a close relationship.
    And Elune and the Winter Queen made a deal of sorts, exchanging souls from their respective realms, creating a cycle of death and rebirth.

    Eonar of the Order was also revealed to have a very close relationship with Elune, which clears up a long-standing mystery.
    Emerald dream is not a realm "created" by the Titans or Freya, but rather an area that Eonar received from Elune.
    Elune gave Eonar a portion of the Realm of Life that she was in charge of, and Eonar used her minions, Nymue, Freya, and others, to transform it into what it is today.

    However, Elune is involved with other forces besides these two.
    In fact, it was the Light's Heart that was mentioned before this in Legion.
    It could be argued that Elune's tear was treated as the pillar of creation because of her dealings with Eonar, even though Elune herself is not a Titan, but we should also remember that Elune's tear reacted with Light's Heart to awaken Xe'ra.
    This leads us to speculate that Elune was involved in the creation of Xe'ra through a deal with one of the Pantheon of Light.

    The Void is more nuanced than this, with dark powers wielded by the Night Warriors, but can also be traced back to Xal'atath's quotes in the Legion.
    Xal'atath referred to Elune then as an upstart goddess.
    This is purely speculation, but I suspect that Elune also made a deal with the Void Lords and eventually realized that they were fundamentally incompatible and walked away.

    That leaves the Disorder, but we don't even have a proper pantheon here to begin with, so this is the only thing we can really guess at right now.

    In any case, this is how I suspect Elune, the Pantheon of Life, approached them, popping up here and there.
    I don't know if the Nathrezim report's reference to the insidiousness of Life was meant to refer to Elune's behavior like this, but I think it's more likely that Elune genuinely wanted to be friends with everyone rather than have any nefarious intentions.
    I think Elune is a character that embodies both the courage and naivety that are typical of Life.
    It's also possible that another member of the pantheon of life, other than Elune, was actually up to something insidious in the first place.

  18. #79458
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Eh, with the Arathis take on the cosmlogy and the nature of the Sacred Flame, and the depiction of Death magic as it stands with Shadowlands, Elunes supposed rainbow of powers might not be anything but just Life magic manifesting in different ways.

    Or some of those powers might not even necessarily come from her directly.

    The Sacred Flame is a manifestation of faith unique to the Arathi, a source of power that is both Arcane and Holy.

    What is to say that the Light of Elune, as we know it from Nelven society, is not just that too, a manifestation of her worshippers faith in her as a goddess.
    Something that contains some of her life giving powers but also represents the culture and magic of her subjects.
    Something that she can use as a medium to communicate and influence the people under her.
    Last edited by Raetary; 2024-10-09 at 07:34 PM.


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  19. #79459
    Quote Originally Posted by hattahat View Post
    I've written about this before, but here it is again.

    Snip
    A lot of really good points here.

    The "upstart goddess" quote is something I've seen a few people mention now, and that keeps peaking my interest.

    As we start to learn more of Xal'atath and what she is, I wonder if there is a possibility that Elune is a counterpart of hers. If Xal'atath is some intermediary between Old Gods and Void Lords, a being of power aligned with the void but lacking explicit definition, could Elune be the same for Light or Life?

    Even further, could Elune have the same origins as Xal'atath, but a different path? Perhaps world souls that were never made to be a Titan, never consumed by the Void, never destroyed or converted by Sargeras, perhaps there is some sort of path to becoming a "god" outside the bounds of the cosmological forces that we've yet to come across. Perhaps Xal'atath is one of these as well, yet chose to align with the Void (as others have speculated, perhaps she was the world soul of K'aresh).

    I think the great mystery of Elune is a huge plus for the worldbuilding of the game. I hope we never really find out the answer or ever truly meet her. I'd love for her to keep this veiled mysticism and power.

  20. #79460
    Agreed, the mystery is exciting.

    Night Warrior.
    Mu'sha, daughter of the Earth Mother.
    White Lady.
    Moon goddess.
    Has powerful tears.
    Sister of the Winter Queen.
    Lover of Malorne.
    Great love of Eonar.
    Mother of Cenarius.
    Bathed in the Well of Eternity.
    Gifted Elun'Ahir to Eonar.
    Considers the Night Elves her favourite children.
    Upstart goddess.

    The list goes on.

    She's ancient, wants to spread life, meddles in the affairs of Azeroth, has some kind of Light vs. dark thing going on, can send souls into the afterlife, but also has urges and emotions like a mortal, or a Greek god.

    I lean towards one of these:

    - Some kind of Pantheon of Life member who has taken it upon herself to do more than what her job requires of her. Sort of like Tyrael in Diablo. Going a bit rogue, she uses her influence on Azeroth to protect the worldsoul. Works through different means, such as the White Lady, evolving the Night Elves, planting Elun'Ahir, influencing the Dragon Aspects, etc. Because she is affiliated with Life, her powers grow if Life thrives on Azeroth. Hence all the world trees, the close alliance with the Night Elves, etc.

    - Some kind of powerful entity of the Light, such as a Prime Naaru, sent to Azeroth long ago to watch over the worldsoul, life's development, etc. Over time lost much of her Naaru persona and started to be considered more as a God among the denizens of Azeroth. Uses Life as a tool to influence things on Azeroth, but her primary powers lie within Light and Shadow.

    - A First One (not very excited by this prospect, and unsure what it would mean).

    - The worldsoul herself, sort of like an avatar that may appear sometimes or work through others.

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