The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[milkmustache]

I would love to see more of Northern EK revamped. I think that there is a ton of opportunity now than ever before.

I do not think that we will see revamped Northern EK in 12.0 unless Blizzard was to break from the four zone on launch standard. There's total possibility to see more of Northern EK in patches, but aside from a surprise expanded launch zone size, I don't think there is anyway we see anything past Quel'thalas.

[Joshuaj]

I wonder how dungeons and raids are going to be handled in TLT.

This isn't like Quel'thalas where it's only a couple of instances (Sunwell, Terrace, ZA)

Northrend has an entire expansion's worth of content. Much of it Scourge focused. Are we going to get radically altered and re-imagined dungeons, or a completely new crop?

Utgarde Keep/Pinnacle - Huge Scourge presence, would need massive overhaul
Nexus/Oculus - Blue dragons are on our side currently, irrelevant now?
Azjol-Nerub/Ahn'Kahet - Scourge/Old God presence, needs overhaul, maybe turned into an underground zone (the true Spider Kingdom at last?)
Drak'tharon Keep/Gundrak - Frost troll/Scourge presence, irrelevant now?
Halls of Stone/Lightning - Titan presence, but major relevance to the Yogg-Saron storyline, would need an overhaul
Violet Hold - Gone...

To say nothing of all the Icecrown dungeons, all the raids...

Just not feasible to update that stuff. We're gonna need a whole new slew of stuff. Where is it going to go?

*looks at Chromatus*



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His time will come...

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Not sure there should really be much actual Troll presence left in Northrend at this point (assuming no retcons), they were pretty much wiped out during Wrath. Iirc BFA had the last surviving Drakkari just sitting in Dazar'alor.

Exploring Azeroth already retconned it and said there was scattered groups still surviving spread out in Zul’drak.

[Joshuaj]

Exploring Azeroth already retconned it and said there was scattered groups still surviving spread out in Zul’drak.

W Retcon btw

[Sondrelk]

I would love to see more of Northern EK revamped. I think that there is a ton of opportunity now than ever before.

I do not think that we will see revamped Northern EK in 12.0 unless Blizzard was to break from the four zone on launch standard. There's total possibility to see more of Northern EK in patches, but aside from a surprise expanded launch zone size, I don't think there is anyway we see anything past Quel'thalas.

Why is that? Eversong and Ghostlands as one zone. Plaguelands as the second zone. Tirisfal, Silverpine, and Hillsbrad into a third zone. And Hinterlands and Arathi Highlands as the fourth zone.

Arathi and Hinterlands for Troll stuff due to Jintha'alor. Lordaeron for Forsaken and Sylvanas stuff. Ghostlands as Scourge stuff. And finally Quel'thalas with the really heavy emphasis on Elves specifically.

Can't think of any expansion where the main theme was the primary one in every zone.

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Sure, it comes with its own assumptions, but these are more reasonable to assume given what was said. Also the difference in size between EK on QT will not matter, as they likely keep them separated and not merge them.

If they go for a Total EK revamp i would assume they start with QT in its own map seperate from cata EK, and once we return to the EK revamp it will be added to the Midnight QT map and not the Cata EK map

If we assume only Eversong and Ghostlands gets updated, and they are the size of a full continent, then we would be looking at something like 10-13 expansions just to fully update EK. Even assuming future revamp expansion update more zones in a go, that would still place it at something like 10 expansions at least just to get through EK and Kalimdor. And while I think WoW will stick around a while, I can't really see that happen when we are also likely to get other expansions than world revamps.

[Enrif]

If we assume only Eversong and Ghostlands gets updated, and they are the size of a full continent, then we would be looking at something like 10-13 expansions just to fully update EK. Even assuming future revamp expansion update more zones in a go, that would still place it at something like 10 expansions at least just to get through EK and Kalimdor. And while I think WoW will stick around a while, I can't really see that happen when we are also likely to get other expansions than world revamps.

Not just Eversong and Ghostlands. Also Isle of Quel Danas and the Forest Troll homeland behind Zul Aman.
If we would than go south of Quel'thalas.

The next logical Expansion from there would be Plaguelands (combined into 1 zone), Tirisfal (including northern Silverpine/Hillsbrad), Gilneas (including souther Silverpine/Hillsbrad), and Arathi Highlands combined with Hinterlands.

But i would wait for speculation on EK/Kalimdor revamp until we see what they do with Northrend. Assuming that Midnight is only in Quel'thalas.

[Sondrelk]

Not just Eversong and Ghostlands. Also Isle of Quel Danas and the Forest Troll homeland behind Zul Aman.
If we would than go south of Quel'thalas.

The next logical Expansion from there would be Plaguelands (combined into 1 zone), Tirisfal (including northern Silverpine/Hillsbrad), Gilneas (including souther Silverpine/Hillsbrad), and Arathi Highlands combined with Hinterlands.

But i would wait for speculation on EK/Kalimdor revamp until we see what they do with Northrend. Assuming that Midnight is only in Quel'thalas.

Definitely not like we are going to get much foreshadowing either way. Even more so when we inevitably get closer to Midnight and the foreshadowing will be about the Sunwell specifically.
Still, I think it's fair to mention that the Heartlands novella taking place in Arathi Highlands does build up to that area. And the Arathi Empire is obviously from that area, with a likely ally in the Scarlet Crusade.

I guess it comes down to personal preference what people expect. Though in my mind I cannot really see the developers massively increasing the size of Quel'thalas without it being incongrous with the rest of EK, in addition to having to fill out extra areas with themes that are better served by using existing zones slightly further south.

Also, while minor. I think it would be the best chance currently to see Gilneas and Undercity be updated and turned into (or back into in the case of UC) proper cities. Updating them and using them as expansion hubs would both be a crowd pleaser among a large chunk of the playerbase. But also slot nicely into housing as a main feature of Midnight.

But again. Probably not a whole lot of point arguing. Both sides have strong pros and cons. Both are easy to argue for both in terms of lore, gameplay, and also meta. Like how just Quel'thalas is easy since it requires no extrapolation on what was being stated. And Northern EK is easy since it doesnt require arguing for an already established zone being made 10 times larger.

[Golden Yak]

While I wouldn't object to the EK getting revamped as part of Midnight, I feel like to start with Blizz would stick to revamping just a few minor zones before moving on to a larger continent-sized revamp (so Midnight does Quel'Thalas, then TLT does Northrend).

I do think all EK should be done eventually, but they can either do it as part of one expansion or multiple expansions.

[Zardas]

While I wouldn't object to the EK getting revamped as part of Midnight, I feel like to start with Blizz would stick to revamping just a few minor zones before moving on to a larger continent-sized revamp (so Midnight does Quel'Thalas, then TLT does Northrend).

Wouldn't it be tricky to incorporate a few revamped zones into a larger non-revamped continent ? And to manage to switching because the old version of the zones and the new one ?

With EK being fully revamped, it would be easy to have an "old" EK continent and a new one in the game, but with only Quel'Thalas ? This kind of stuff works well for singular zones getting a small facial lift, but a revamp Quethalas would likely involve a huge geographical improvement, which might make the Zidormi trick kinda hard to pull off.

[milkmustache]

Why is that? Eversong and Ghostlands as one zone. Plaguelands as the second zone. Tirisfal, Silverpine, and Hillsbrad into a third zone. And Hinterlands and Arathi Highlands as the fourth zone.

Arathi and Hinterlands for Troll stuff due to Jintha'alor. Lordaeron for Forsaken and Sylvanas stuff. Ghostlands as Scourge stuff. And finally Quel'thalas with the really heavy emphasis on Elves specifically.

Can't think of any expansion where the main theme was the primary one in every zone.

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If we assume only Eversong and Ghostlands gets updated, and they are the size of a full continent, then we would be looking at something like 10-13 expansions just to fully update EK. Even assuming future revamp expansion update more zones in a go, that would still place it at something like 10 expansions at least just to get through EK and Kalimdor. And while I think WoW will stick around a while, I can't really see that happen when we are also likely to get other expansions than world revamps.

Because the zones of Quel'thalas and the zones of Northern EK both deserve their own focus in their own right.

I think proponents of World Revamps (like myself) tend to think that it's all or nothing in a lot of cases, but we're seeing that Blizzard's approach will be one that takes a good amount of time. The reality is that in most cases, we see 4 zones per expansion launch. They could do Northern EK and bump it up, but you're almost certainly going to see the sizes of each zone depleted.

If the D.R.I.V.E. system makes dynamic riding a staple of the game as dynamic flying did, it's possible that zone design can change. As Zaralek Caverns was a precursor for TWW, I would not be surprised if some form of ground mount only zone could be in store for Midnight in vein of Undermine, which in theory could deliver a smaller zone, but I would still be very surprised to see the zones shrink at all.

We also have to consider the leveling cadence. Leveling continues to become a less important aspect of the game as expansions moves forward. The 4 zone campaign cadence has been pretty standard for a while now, and I cannot see us breaking that. There is the possibility of introducing multiple end-game level only zones like Suramar. Maybe the Isle of Quel'danas and Zul'Aman are end game only, so we then see an inclusion of the Plageulands in the level cadence. My point here is that in order to include more of Northern EK, there would have to be a dramatic break from standards here. Revamping an old zone for an expansion is already a big break, but I still just feel like it's probably unlikely.

I think a very realistic approach to Midnight is a 4 zone Quel'thalas; Eversong Woods, Ghostlands, Zul'aman (Hills of Maisara or whatever they name it) and one of Quel'danas or Silvermoon taking up an entire zone and the other joining Eversong Woods.

If there manages to be more of Northern EK included in Midnight at launch at the same scale as Dragon Isles/Khaz Algar, I'd be over the moon. I'm just trying to maintain reasonable expectations.

[Sondrelk]

Wouldn't it be tricky to incorporate a few revamped zones into a larger non-revamped continent ? And to manage to switching because the old version of the zones and the new one ?

With EK being fully revamped, it would be easy to have an "old" EK continent and a new one in the game, but with only Quel'Thalas ? This kind of stuff works well for singular zones getting a small facial lift, but a revamp Quethalas would likely involve a huge geographical improvement, which might make the Zidormi trick kinda hard to pull off.

This is why I think Northern EK is so perfect. It has a natural geographical endpoint for an expansion that players won't really notice being changed from one version of EK to the next. Looking at a revamped Gilneas from Wetlands is not going to look much different compared to what we have currently.

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Because the zones of Quel'thalas and the zones of Northern EK both deserve their own focus in their own right.

I think proponents of World Revamps (like myself) tend to think that it's all or nothing in a lot of cases, but we're seeing that Blizzard's approach will be one that takes a good amount of time. The reality is that in most cases, we see 4 zones per expansion launch. They could do Northern EK and bump it up, but you're almost certainly going to see the sizes of each zone depleted.

If the D.R.I.V.E. system makes dynamic riding a staple of the game as dynamic flying did, it's possible that zone design can change. As Zaralek Caverns was a precursor for TWW, I would not be surprised if some form of ground mount only zone could be in store for Midnight in vein of Undermine, which in theory could deliver a smaller zone, but I would still be very surprised to see the zones shrink at all.

We also have to consider the leveling cadence. Leveling continues to become a less important aspect of the game as expansions moves forward. The 4 zone campaign cadence has been pretty standard for a while now, and I cannot see us breaking that. There is the possibility of introducing multiple end-game level only zones like Suramar. Maybe the Isle of Quel'danas and Zul'Aman are end game only, so we then see an inclusion of the Plageulands in the level cadence. My point here is that in order to include more of Northern EK, there would have to be a dramatic break from standards here. Revamping an old zone for an expansion is already a big break, but I still just feel like it's probably unlikely.

I think a very realistic approach to Midnight is a 4 zone Quel'thalas; Eversong Woods, Ghostlands, Zul'aman (Hills of Maisara or whatever they name it) and one of Quel'danas or Silvermoon taking up an entire zone and the other joining Eversong Woods.

If there manages to be more of Northern EK included in Midnight at launch at the same scale as Dragon Isles/Khaz Algar, I'd be over the moon. I'm just trying to maintain reasonable expectations.

While I agree that Lordaeron could probably sustain its own expansion, I think that is very unlikely compared to Blizzard just combining it and Midnight given the significant thematic overlap between Forsaken, Humans, Belves, and Arathi.

And we wouldn't get each individual zone if Northern EK is revamped. We would instead get larger zones comprised of several smaller ones.
A Lordaeron zones for instance combining Tirisfal, Silverpine, and Hillsbrad. You would deal with the Scarlet Crusade, the Arathi, and the Forsaken post-Sylvanas.
You would still have the same amount of zones. Just combining several Classic zones into one to end up with what would be considered a single modern zone in terms of size and variety.

And of we are arguing reasonable expectations. Then I would argue what I did above.
Expecting Northern EK to be revamped when it's the right size. And the zones have a nice thematic overlap with existing elements in Quel'thalas like the Amani, Arathi, Scourge, etc. Is not at all unreasonable compared to the other likely alternative of taking two and a half existing zones, and stretching them into a full expansion worth of zones. Which would necessitate keeping the divide between it and the rest of EK, which is a barrier that players have been vocal about seeing removed for years.

[milkmustache]

This is why I think Northern EK is so perfect. It has a natural geographical endpoint for an expansion that players won't really notice being changed from one version of EK to the next. Looking at a revamped Gilneas from Wetlands is not going to look much different compared to what we have currently.

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While I agree that Lordaeron could probably sustain its own expansion, I think that is very unlikely compared to Blizzard just combining it and Midnight given the significant thematic overlap between Forsaken, Humans, Belves, and Arathi.

And we wouldn't get each individual zone if Northern EK is revamped. We would instead get larger zones comprised of several smaller ones.
A Lordaeron zones for instance combining Tirisfal, Silverpine, and Hillsbrad. You would deal with the Scarlet Crusade, the Arathi, and the Forsaken post-Sylvanas.
You would still have the same amount of zones. Just combining several Classic zones into one to end up with what would be considered a single modern zone in terms of size and variety.

And of we are arguing reasonable expectations. Then I would argue what I did above.
Expecting Northern EK to be revamped when it's the right size. And the zones have a nice thematic overlap with existing elements in Quel'thalas like the Amani, Arathi, Scourge, etc. Is not at all unreasonable compared to the other likely alternative of taking two and a half existing zones, and stretching them into a full expansion worth of zones. Which would necessitate keeping the divide between it and the rest of EK, which is a barrier that players have been vocal about seeing removed for years.

I'm only denying this as a launch zone situation. I can't imagine we don't get another EK zone as a patch, and I wouldn't be surprised to see multiple come in one. Perhaps we arrive in Quel'thalas to stave off the initial invasion similar to Broken Shore, but find that Lordaeron and other parts of Northern EK become staging grounds for the Void to push back to Quel'danas, almost repeating Arthas's march. These zones are inaccesbile on launch, but become patch zones that we clear in 12.1 and 12.2.

Maybe that doesn't work, but I wouldnt' be surprised to go there in a patch, I'm only arguing their inclusion on launch.

[Golden Yak]

Wouldn't it be tricky to incorporate a few revamped zones into a larger non-revamped continent ? And to manage to switching because the old version of the zones and the new one ?

In the case of Quel'Thalas? Not really. They're already instanced off from the main EK, that will certainly make the older versions easier to preserve.
New changes can just be bolted onto that region north of the plaguelands - overhauling a teeny part of the EK vs the whole thing.

Same rationale for why it would be easy to revamp EK north of the Thandol Span, since it's such a stark divide between north and south.

[Sondrelk]

I'm only denying this as a launch zone situation. I can't imagine we don't get another EK zone as a patch, and I wouldn't be surprised to see multiple come in one. Perhaps we arrive in Quel'thalas to stave off the initial invasion similar to Broken Shore, but find that Lordaeron and other parts of Northern EK become staging grounds for the Void to push back to Quel'danas, almost repeating Arthas's march. These zones are inaccesbile on launch, but become patch zones that we clear in 12.1 and 12.2.

Maybe that doesn't work, but I wouldnt' be surprised to go there in a patch, I'm only arguing their inclusion on launch.

Personally I see the expansion going as I said. But with K'aresh as the final zone, and maybe something like the Draenei, or otherwise some other Elf themed zones as the 12.1 zone.

Easy to understand what is and isn't revamped.
Also, I don't see any zone in EK really fit the void theme besides maybe Twilight Highlands.


Just to compare with other predictions. Mine would be:
12.0: Northern EK. Silvermoon/Sunwell raid
12.1: Could be anything really
12.2: K'aresh with final boss being Dimensius

12.1. could really be anything honestly. Zul'aman raid. Scholomance or Stratholme raid. Dire Maul for more elf flavor. Nazjatar 2: Electric Boogaloo. Etc.

[Kiivar86]

Plunderstorm returns January 21st to February 24th, 2025, and now you gain currency and can buy items instead of the renown thing we had previously.

Includes a sack of 250 traders tenders and 500 traders tenders. I imagine those are one-time purchases though.

[Sondrelk]

Plunderstorm returns January 21st to February 24th, 2025, and now you gain currency and can buy items instead of the renown thing we had previously.

Includes a sack of 250 traders tenders and 500 traders tenders. I imagine those are one-time purchases though.

Probably will be yeah. Seems like it's the same items requiring the same amount of games. Just with the ability to buy individual items rather than having to get to specific Renown breakpoints if there was only one item you wanted.

[Telogrus]

So is there still anyone who doesn’t believe 11.2 will be Elun’ahir?

[Makabreska]

So is there still anyone who doesn’t believe 11.2 will be Elun’ahir?

Ye, me. Not sure they would do yet another World Tree being in the focus of expansion climax. TWW is literally the best moment for us to physically reach World Soul, and that would be more than enough.

[Sondrelk]

Ye, me. Not sure they would do yet another World Tree being in the focus of expansion climax. TWW is literally the best moment for us to physically reach World Soul, and that would be more than enough.

Same here. Though just belief probably isnt enough to prevent it from being true sadly. I was hoping to at least see it bundled with Undermine so we could have Goblins take away most of the boring Nature themes, but alas.

[Lady Atia]

Ye, me. Not sure they would do yet another World Tree being in the focus of expansion climax. TWW is literally the best moment for us to physically reach World Soul, and that would be more than enough.

How big was the rootlands zone in the alpha? They could easily use it as a surprise catch up mini zone like siren isle and have the entry to the coreway there?