The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Kiivar86]

He was the first antagonist to not underestimate the adventurers, he was different to ALL the overconfident baddies of the past. Even Azshara ultimately failed to use us, because we defeated her before she could 'free' N'Zoth in a way that would've let her kill him. Iridikron realized he had a good chance to fail when taking us head on, but he knew how to truly Xanatos-Gambit us into advancing his goals either way.

That and also he's got his long term plan and goal in mind, and he knows that he shouldn't keep popping up well before it is ready to happen. I appreciated that.

[Nathanyel]

People really just love spouting random stuff.

Anything to discredit Danuser.
The shitshow of Sylvanas turning full evil? "All Danuser, despite Afrasiabi steering the story irrevocably in that direction."
Any good story beats in Dragonflight? "Obviously already Metzen's influence."

[allegrian]

He was the first antagonist to not underestimate the adventurers, he was different to ALL the overconfident baddies of the past. Even Azshara ultimately failed to use us, because we defeated her before she could 'free' N'Zoth in a way that would've let her kill him. Iridikron realized he had a good chance to fail when taking us head on, but he knew how to truly Xanatos-Gambit us into advancing his goals either way.

He just said 1 line about not underestimating us, he did barely anything in DF and smelled like cut/changed content. They've tried to make him kinda relevant for TWW with the dark heart stuff but that's just a mcguffin and the story could be basically the same without it.

The fat woman from Kul Tiras felt more like an actual villain than him lol.

[Lady Atia]

He just said 1 line about not underestimating us, he did barely anything in DF and smelled like cut/changed content. They've tried to make him kinda relevant for TWW with the dark heart stuff but that's just a mcguffin and the story could be basically the same without it.

The fat woman from Kul Tiras felt more like an actual villain than him lol.

No? Number 1 complain about Shadowlands was that the Jailer had 0 build up (and honestly, that was the only real lore problem that Expansion had that didn't came from Afrasiabis shitty BfA lore), so they obviously took that to heart and decided to give us villains again who actually survive the expansion where they are introduced. Illidan, Archimonde/KJ/Argus and Arthas had WC3, Garrosh and N'Zoth had a bunch of expansions to cook. The Jailer could have been awesome if they started to seed him during Legion, but alas ...

[Sondrelk]

Anything to discredit Danuser. The shitshow of Sylvanas turning full evil? All Danuser, despite Afrasiabi steering the story irrevocably in that direction. Any good story beats in Dragonflight? Obviously already Metzen's influence.

It's the same way it has always been. Any person who is currently in the WoW team is a heartless parasite who only exists to push fanfiction and push the in-game shop. Anyone who leaves is a true visionary whose heart simply couldnt take the relentless darkness seeping into every corner of the office. And who leaves, exhausted after a long lonely fight to keep WoW good.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I don't. Lorgar is just making assertions with no real basis in lore. Souls in the Shadowlands can have bodies too. We've seen plenty of them.

Being alive is a function of a body as well, not of the soul.

Binding one’s soul to there body post death in the great dark comes with all kinds of side effects because the bind is imperfect which can cause the dampening of emotions, bouts of rage, deep sadness, ect. This has been the lore since atleast classic and was carried through to the SL prequel book.

Souls geting “body’s” in the SL don’t experience these issues even when they are body hoping like in Mald.

The lore clearly shows the two to be different.

[Ersula]

Anything to discredit Danuser. The shitshow of Sylvanas turning full evil? All Danuser, despite Afrasiabi steering the story irrevocably in that direction. Any good story beats in Dragonflight? Obviously already Metzen's influence.

Stop saying this. The decision to burn the tree happened long before Afrasiabi was fired. Afrasiabi is credited as director on BFA.

[Nathanyel]

Stop saying this. The decision to burn the tree happened long before Afrasiabi was fired. Afrasiabi is credited as director on BFA.

Ok, sorry, people seem to not get the sarcasm unless I put it in quotes to indicate that these are not my real thoughts and opinions, second time this has happened in two days.

[Khaza-R]

Ok, sorry, people seem to not get the sarcasm unless I put it in quotes to indicate that these are not my real thoughts and opinions, second time this has happened in two days.

Even if sarcasm, I don't why people try to argue the shitty story is the fault of a single dev. They started changing the story of Sylvanas as far back as the Legion Alpha when Metzen was still around. So to pretend the whole atrocious storyline wasn't a multi-part failure its just silly.

[huth]

Binding one’s soul to there body post death in the great dark comes with all kinds of side effects because the bind is imperfect which can cause the dampening of emotions, bouts of rage, deep sadness, ect. This has been the lore since atleast classic and was carried through to the SL prequel book.

Souls geting “body’s” in the SL don’t experience these issues even when they are body hoping like in Mald.

The lore clearly shows the two to be different.

Marked the actual cause for you. It's nothing to do with where it happens.

[Joshuaj]

Anything to discredit Danuser.
The shitshow of Sylvanas turning full evil? "All Danuser, despite Afrasiabi steering the story irrevocably in that direction."
Any good story beats in Dragonflight? "Obviously already Metzen's influence."

Wait until they realize who wrote all the cool N'Zoth whispers (which led to a TON of fun, unique speculation from the fans).

- - - Updated - - -

Stop saying this. The decision to burn the tree happened long before Afrasiabi was fired. Afrasiabi is credited as director on BFA.

Ok? What does this have to do with anything he just said?

- - - Updated - - -

Is this your way of saying people actually didn't blame Danuser for turning Sylvanas evil? Cause that's false lmao.

And even then, you can't pin the blame on 1 person alone. Blizzard has made it clear that, despite there being creative directors behind stuff, there is also a whole ass narrative team that writes the narrative and has full control over how the story is told.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Marked the actual cause for you. It's nothing to do with where it happens.

If the bind is always imperfect in the great dark, and is always perfect in the shadowlands, it is exclusively because of where it happens.

No amount of power drawn from death fixes this issue rather it be the lich king or as common necromancer the same thing happens every time and the only time we have seen some one raised with out it happening is when the light is the one doing the raising not death.

[Nibelheimy]

So apparently Metzen helped create the primal incarnates, yet he didn't return to Blizzard in any capacity until a month after DF release. But at the same time his major story contributions didn't start till we hit TWW?

Weird, considering there was fully cgi rendered cinematic of an incarnate before he'd even rejoined the company. It's also weird how Ion said "when you see the vault raid cinematic, you'll know who the end boss is. " and it was clearly set up to be Iridikron. Yet it wasn't.

All this time, Metzen was behind the incarnates before even working back at the company, when they were likely conceptually finished a year if not more before he came back.

As I said, we're lucky he came back and big brained the saga idea, or Iridikron would already be dead.

[Lady Atia]

So apparently Metzen helped create the primal incarnates, yet he didn't return to Blizzard in any capacity until a month after DF release. But at the same time his major story contributions didn't start till we hit TWW?

Weird, considering there was fully cgi rendered cinematic of an incarnate before he'd even rejoined the company. It's also weird how Ion said "when you see the vault raid cinematic, you'll know who the end boss is. " and it was clearly set up to be Iridikron. Yet it wasn't.

All this time, Metzen was behind the incarnates before even working back at the company, when they were likely conceptually finished a year if not more before he came back.

As I said, we're lucky he came back and big brained the saga idea, or Iridikron would already be dead.

Tbf, the Incarnates at the end of the vault cinematic weren't characters besides "roar big elemental dragons". Everything else afterwards (including their visage forms) could be easily done with Metzen. Also, Fyrrak was in that cinematic, so Ion's anwer is still true (and the fun thing is, if they actually wanted to do Iridikron as final boss he would have said so, instead of leaving it open so we kinda know it will be one of the three but can still speculate which one will be the final boss, or even all three etc - in hinsight, he prolly knew that most people would expect Iridikron so he kinda preserved the plot twist while still giving an answer. Was it a good twist? Hell no because Fyrrak was just dumber Deathwing but people wanted a villain without complexity so thats what we got lol).

[huth]

If the bind is always imperfect in the great dark, and is always perfect in the shadowlands, it is exclusively because of where it happens.

There is nothing stating this to be the case, though. It's not like the Lich King was even trying to do that, either.

[micwini]

So apparently Metzen helped create the primal incarnates, yet he didn't return to Blizzard in any capacity until a month after DF release. But at the same time his major story contributions didn't start till we hit TWW?

Weird, considering there was fully cgi rendered cinematic of an incarnate before he'd even rejoined the company. It's also weird how Ion said "when you see the vault raid cinematic, you'll know who the end boss is. " and it was clearly set up to be Iridikron. Yet it wasn't.

All this time, Metzen was behind the incarnates before even working back at the company, when they were likely conceptually finished a year if not more before he came back.

As I said, we're lucky he came back and big brained the saga idea, or Iridikron would already be dead.

I 100% remember that quote "You'll know who the final boss is at the end of the raid".

[Lorgar Aurelian]

There is nothing stating this to be the case, though. It's not like the Lich King was even trying to do that, either.

Sure, there is no direct statement saying it to be the case.

But all of the lore around death magic from classic through shadowlands supports it.

[ro9ue]

You've got to be joking. You seriously can't tell me you think it's unfathomable that people can genuinely find some elements of cultural anachronism tolerable in fantasy and others unpalatable. Is it actually that impossible to believe that someone can dislike the direction of modern WoW without being a jaded forty-something?

I grew up playing both Warcraft III and WoW, the former more often because my parents were skeptical of giving me unrestricted access to an MMO as a child. I played both and, looking back on both WoW in the days of my childhood and Warcraft III, I find myself ultimately having to prefer Warcraft III's take on the lore, setting, and aesthetic as something more coherent and interesting. Not every belief that differs from your own is determined by nostalgia; people can genuinely, impartially analyze two pieces of media and come to prefer one over the other. If anything, it likely speaks to some immense weakness of your position if you can't assert it without resorting to tacky armchair psychology and subsequent denial when said armchair psychology hits a single challenging datum.

I hate goblins.

People on this forum only have 2 modes.

As for the thread topic, I'm expecting:

11.1 - Undermine goblins, machines, shredders and fire vs the root people of Elun'ahir, fern gully vibes. Basically the plot to Avatar
11.2 - Light vs Void. Beledar, Stormwind

[Makabreska]

People on this forum only have 2 modes.

As for the thread topic, I'm expecting:

11.1 - Undermine goblins, machines, shredders and fire vs the root people of Elun'ahir, fern gully vibes. Basically the plot to Avatar
11.2 - Light vs Void. Beledar, Stormwind

Doubt 11.2 will have to do with anything on the surface as it would be super disappointing. This is like THE best chance to see what actually is in Azeroth core, I fully expect TWW finale to happen there. Also, a little early for Light vs Void.

[micwini]

People on this forum only have 2 modes.

As for the thread topic, I'm expecting:

11.1 - Undermine goblins, machines, shredders and fire vs the root people of Elun'ahir, fern gully vibes. Basically the plot to Avatar
11.2 - Light vs Void. Beledar, Stormwind

Damn. Maybe you're on to something. That would make a lot of sense.