The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

Remember when Eredar and Draenei were unrelated species? I do.

I think you're thinking of the wrong factoid. The retcon was that the Eredar corrupted Sargeras, rather than the other way around. In warcraft 3 what we now know as broken draenei say the Eredar caused their decline, but that's not necessarily mean they weren't part of the same race. But at that point we enter a nebulous lore territory, because two separate teams were writing Warcraft 3 and Vanilla WoW. I don't think the Draenei were even mentioned in Vanilla WoW, just like the history of the world in Warcraft 3 never mentions the Dragonflights.

It's funny that people think Metzen is going to make Warcraft less-cosmic, when he's the one who came up with the all the stuff about space-travel & sentient rocks.

Would love. Who knows maybe it happens. Maybe just Faerin survives cause she is with us.

Big Talia Fordragon Energy. The first rule of WoW writing is just because a character takes up hours of gameplay doesn't mean she's ever going to do anything important.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

It seems like people don't fully know what the word "retcon" is supposed to mean.

[Hitei]

I think you're thinking of the wrong factoid. The retcon was that the Eredar corrupted Sargeras, rather than the other way around. In warcraft 3 what we now know as broken draenei say the Eredar caused their decline, but that's not necessarily mean they weren't part of the same race. But at that point we enter a nebulous lore territory, because two separate teams were writing Warcraft 3 and Vanilla WoW. I don't think the Draenei were even mentioned in Vanilla WoW, just like the history of the world in Warcraft 3 never mentions the Dragonflights.

They're two sides of the same coin. They weren't Eredar before BC, because before BC, Eredar were 100ft tall primordial space demons who had always been demons and went around corrupting other races into demonic entities. There was no logical connection between the two. The WC2 manual establishes that the Draenei are natives, Gul'dan even refers to the orc's own planet as "the red world of the Draenei" hence it being called Draenor and talks about how they razed the fields the Draenei had been tending for thousands of years, it also establishes KJ as just one of the "daemonlords" from a different plane.

WC3 just shifted KJ to be part of a specific race, Eredar, who were still innate demons native to the Twisting Nether.

[OCoyne]

None of it has been retconned so far. Something not being mentioned is not a retcon, it's just information that isn't currently relevant. A retcon would require that new information contradicts established fact retroactively.


And your list is rather tiny and mostly just wishful thinking.

ALL of it has been retconned already. They literally released a free novel one month before TWW to re-write Anduin's character, the only event which took place was the fact he was temporarily a Death Knight and it literally got 1 sentence throughout the entire novel.

If you think that isn't obvious enough they're hard erasing anything to do with SL like a cheating ex who stole from you I despair.

His character's totally changed from someone struggling with PTSD to the Am I a King or do I serve the light arc which you see in finale of the Main Quests which tbh I'm totally okay with it.

[Joshuaj]

ALL of it has been retconned already. They literally released a free novel one month before TWW to re-write Anduin's character, the only event which took place was the fact he was temporarily a Death Knight and it literally got 1 sentence throughout the entire novel.

If you think that isn't obvious enough they're hard erasing anything to do with SL like a cheating ex who stole from you I despair.

His character's totally changed from someone struggling with PTSD to the Am I a King or do I serve the light arc which you see in finale of the Main Quests which tbh I'm totally okay with it.

Weird thing to say considering Xal'atath quite literally flexes the fact we survived the threats in the Realm of Death.

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Heck, she uses it as the most important example of mortals being the "most wrathful beings in existence".

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99% of Shadowlands lore is retconned anyhow. It wasn't just because of the Jailer either.

It was the terrible writing with Sylvanas, promoting an Arthas return, the Dreadlords actually serving death rather than the Burning Legion, missing storylines in Revendreth regarding Lorthraxion, missing storylines regarding Nathanos supposedly turning up otherwise what the fuck was the point in him willingly die in the pre-patch, COVID, Bobby Kotick, FF14 overtaking WoW as the biggest MMO for a short period when the boom happened until DF release.

That's actually a huge list to why people should consider SL lore retconned. The only 3 which people should factor in which is still in the current timeline is Sylvanas is banished to the maw, the Dreadlords have a leader who's still alive and The Jailers attempts to manipulate the Forge of Orginination

You mean the Machine of Origination?

[Kiivar86]

Just wait until some folks see Shadowlands residents show up at the anniversary celebration.

[Merryck]

How I wish they added those Faun from the Shadowlands as a playable race. They clear those stinky looking harronir. And, you know, they aren't just another damn elf.

[Nymrohd]

I just want us to get the races that have actually been faction members since vanilla (like Ogres and Forest Trolls for the Horde) instead of whatever shiny catches people's eye every expac.

[huth]

ALL of it has been retconned already. They literally released a free novel one month before TWW to re-write Anduin's character, the only event which took place was the fact he was temporarily a Death Knight and it literally got 1 sentence throughout the entire novel.

If you think that isn't obvious enough they're hard erasing anything to do with SL like a cheating ex who stole from you I despair.

His character's totally changed from someone struggling with PTSD to the Am I a King or do I serve the light arc which you see in finale of the Main Quests which tbh I'm totally okay with it.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Not that you'd be remotely reliable given how you keep misreading everything.

[micwini]

I think even during SL/just after Anduin's writing has not been good. We're supposed to believe he's completely traumatised and committed countless terrible things, but all he did was steal some mcguffins and stabbed a big blue angel.

[Dracullus]

This week Warcraft should have spotlight even outside regular media, so there won't be better time to finally announce direct.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I just want us to get the races that have actually been faction members since vanilla (like Ogres and Forest Trolls for the Horde) instead of whatever shiny catches people's eye every expac.

Imagine hopping into a time machine and telling someone playing vanilla we'd get nonexistent fox people, cyborg gnomes, and anemic wall lizards before ogres.

[Zorvaine]

I agree with the above posts.

The thing I care the absolute most for, though, is world design.

Old expansions had amazing ambience. The zones felt like they existed, not for us to see them but because they're part of a world.

The music also had a major impact on this; it was simpler back in the day. Especially between Vanilla - WotLK.

I'm newer expansions, like the story, it got so bombastic, always demanding your attention. Zones became more like themeparks as a result. Great the first time but quickly got old.

They started returning to form a bit with Dragonflight though. But The War Within instead suffers from having hyper-stylised zones in the underground biome. In a sense, they have the same effect as Outland and the Shadowlands. It takes you out of the world, a bit.

For Midnight and especially TLT, I hope we get really low key ambient music, regular skyboxes, and natural biomes.

Low key ambient music adds so much more to the atmosphere which makes the Classic & TBC zones feel like they have more soul in them so I would love to see more of a focus on that in Midnight.

I would also like to have Northrend feel dangerous. While many will disagree with me, I would prefer it if at the beginning of Midnight & TLT that flying mounts would not be available and that we would have to explore the expansion in it's first months by ground thus making it feel more dangerous and immersive.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

It is utterly mind boggling, but equally hilarious, the same handful of posters can repeatedly fall into arguments about what is established lore and what is considered a retcon or not.
And still be wrong every single time.

I did one Google search and found the top 5 results, with sources, explaining the Eredar/Sargeras/Draenei retcon from TBC.

[Ersula]

You mean the Machine of Origination?

The Sundering was so severe landmasses moved hundreds of miles, at this point it's more likely all the Titan facilities were part of one singular megastructure than the rest of the coreway being on Khaz Algar. But yes its dumb they used such a similar name in Shadowlands for the big mcguffin.

[Lady Atia]

How I wish they added those Faun from the Shadowlands as a playable race. They clear those stinky looking harronir. And, you know, they aren't just another damn elf.

I'm still holding out hope for the Shadowlands races to become a patch feature as allied races for Midnight when Sylvanas comes back in order to defend Silvermoon. I really, really want to play a Kyrian.

[huth]

It is utterly mind boggling, but equally hilarious, the same handful of posters can repeatedly fall into arguments about what is established lore and what is considered a retcon or not.
And still be wrong every single time.

I did one Google search and found the top 5 results, with sources, explaining the Eredar/Sargeras/Draenei retcon from TBC.

I expect them to have forgotten about it by the end of the week. Again.

[Joshuaj]

The Sundering was so severe landmasses moved hundreds of miles, at this point it's more likely all the Titan facilities were part of one singular megastructure than the rest of the coreway being on Khaz Algar. But yes its dumb they used such a similar name in Shadowlands for the big mcguffin.

What does the sundering have to do with a cosmic machine deep within the heart of the sepulcher? Also, why is it dumb? If anything, the Sepulcher's machine is more of an Origination device than the Titans "forge of origination".

[Ersula]

What does the sundering have to do with a cosmic machine deep within the heart of the sepulcher? Also, why is it dumb? If anything, the Sepulcher's machine is more of an Origination device than the Titans "forge of origination".

1.) The Topic is the Coreway & what the Titans were doing with it & 2.) real human people named these things. It's stupid that the writers gave such a similar name to an unrelated device.

[Joshuaj]

1.) The Topic is the Coreway & what the Titans were doing with it & 2.) real human people named these things. It's stupid that the writers gave such a similar name to an unrelated device.

I mean, you can discuss that stuff about the Coreway, just not with me. Also, don't you think it's possible that the Machine of Origination was used to...ya know...originate existence?