The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Joshuaj]

Lmao it kinda does

[allegrian]

What if they release a new W3 campaign? Like a new expansion akin to a W4?

[Nathanyel]

Unless they retcon it, Blizzard kinda made it to where the First Ones are engraved in the Cosmology no matter what (Especially since the pattern is their design, and the cosmic forces are quite literally portions of themselves).

I've said it before and I'll say it again, anything directly related to the First Ones and whatever threat Zovaal saw, will never be elaborated upon, it's the new "mysterious cosmology" that the Titans, the Void etc. were in the past.

Unless there is ever one "final" expansion that basically ends with the end of the world (or at least Azeroth)

[huth]

Lmao, that fucking sounds like a brand new continent will go to in the future.

I think it should be rendered Metzopotamia, though.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

What if they release a new W3 campaign? Like a new expansion akin to a W4?

That would be sick, but it would need to be an alternate history-like story.

[milkmustache]

Unless they retcon it, Blizzard kinda made it to where the First Ones are engraved in the Cosmology no matter what (Especially since the pattern is their design, and the cosmic forces are quite literally portions of themselves).

So, like it or not, they're here to stay.

I mean they are already soft-retconning some of the ways Shadowlands approached the cosmology, particularly with the Palawltar's Codex from Hallowfall, which I believe was made as a cheeky way to reel back the rigidity of the cosmological forces that Shadowlands reinforced.

I just truly do not see the First Ones being anyone we don't already know, if they ever come around. It'll turn out to be the Titans or Elune or something. It's just too much of a "but wait there's more" approach, and I think they are dialing that back.

[huth]

That would be sick, but it would need to be an alternate history-like story.

Hardly, there's plenty of room for events we either only heard in passing or aren't aware of.

I mean they are already soft-retconning some of the ways Shadowlands approached the cosmology, particularly with the Palawltar's Codex from Hallowfall, which I believe was made as a cheeky way to reel back the rigidity of the cosmological forces that Shadowlands reinforced.

Hardly, it's an illustration of how the Arathi's understanding differs from ours. It's also an in-universe source by somebody who isn't aware of the actual makeup.

That has no impact on the actual workings of the 'verse, only on how the Arathi approach it.

[Joshuaj]

I mean they are already soft-retconning some of the ways Shadowlands approached the cosmology, particularly with the Palawltar's Codex from Hallowfall, which I believe was made as a cheeky way to reel back the rigidity of the cosmological forces that Shadowlands reinforced.

I just truly do not see the First Ones being anyone we don't already know, if they ever come around. It'll turn out to be the Titans or Elune or something. It's just too much of a "but wait there's more" approach, and I think they are dialing that back.

You do realize the Arathi approach doubles down on everything we know, yeah? It's just argued in a much more unique manner, as the Arathi only theorize the cosmos based off what they've seen on Azeroth and whatnot, which is long after the pattern started to become more layered, and forces and magics started to mix more.

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Heck, I'm pretty sure the Ararhi have their chart as a 6 sided hexateron.

You literally can't make this up.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again, anything directly related to the First Ones and whatever threat Zovaal saw, will never be elaborated upon, it's the new "mysterious cosmology" that the Titans, the Void etc. were in the past.

Unless there is ever one "final" expansion that basically ends with the end of the world (or at least Azeroth)

Even IF that stuff wasn't expanded upon, the Titans, the Void Lords, etc are inherently Progenitor coded, as they are children of the First Ones, and, like I said before, the Cosmic Forces are literally parts of the Progenitors themselves.

Meaning, the forces of Light and Shadow clashes? Those are extensions of the First Ones.

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All this strife and conflict starts with them.

[Ersula]

That would be sick, but it would need to be an alternate history-like story.

Why? Warcraft Campaigns don't have alternate endings. They could even do a campaign based on the events of BFA or Legion & reuse WoW voice lines.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Why? Warcraft Campaigns don't have alternate endings. They could even do a campaign based on the events of BFA or Legion & reuse WoW voice lines.

I don't see the reasoning or appeal of adding RTS campaigns to the game (WC3 Reforged) if they have already played out in WoW. I think if they are going to do it, they shouldn't tread on things that have already transpired in WoW already.

[Ersula]

I don't see the reasoning or appeal of adding RTS campaigns to the game (WC3 Reforged) if they have already played out in WoW. I think if they are going to do it, they shouldn't tread on things that haven't already transpired in WoW already.

if that was their logic, why would they ever remake or update Warcraft 3 at all? Why does Timewalking or WoW Classic exist? If they would add a new campaign, recreating the Fourth war in Warcraft 3 would be the easiest thing to do because it requires the least amount of development & writing possible.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

if that was their logic, why would they ever remake or update Warcraft 3 at all?

We saw what WC3 Reforged turned out to be. There's your answer.

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Why does Timewalking or WoW Classic exist?

Because WoW is still active and maintained. You don't need Timewalking to do the content Timewalking brings. It's still already there. Apart of the same game when those dungeons/raids were relevant. Same thing with WoW Classic.
I don't see the point you're trying to make.

If they would add a new campaign, recreating the Fourth war in Warcraft 3 would be the easiest thing to do because it requires the least amount of development & writing possible.

And I still ask what is the reasoning behind it all the same. What's the merit of adding new campaigns to that game--a game that was just a recreation of an entirely separate game from WoW--of experiences that happened in WoW specifically--continuing the story of the previous game entirely separate from WoW--that you can still experience it in WoW? It makes absolutely no sense. That's all I'm saying.


EDIT: Like @huth said, you could add campaigns of events that happened in tandem to the events of WoW that we did not see specifically, or were told to us that happened after the fact. Or they can create entirely new stories/events/characters for the campaigns and just say they happened during any timeframe of WoW's history. That makes more sense... I guess.

[Khaza-R]

I think a fully voice acting new campaign is unlikely anyway. Even if it would be really cool.

I think its more likely we get a new gamemode or something. But either way, really tempeing my expectations given Blizzard seems to try to draw as little attention to Reforged as possible

[Lady Atia]

So, it seems like everyone who raids on SoD will be able to get the black qiraji mount there. More and more I wish they would finally do a "season of legacy" where the classic chars actually end up on retail servers once the whole thing is over - I bet they would get a lot more players there if they did it that way. Old FOMO stuff gets destroyed left and right anyways, and I would rather play the old content than having stuff end up on the trading post, a vendor or on twitch drops, idk.

[micwini]

I wonder how many people actually know what FOMO stands for, let alone what it actually means.

[Makabreska]

December Trading Post is W3 focused:

[milkmustache]

Even IF that stuff wasn't expanded upon, the Titans, the Void Lords, etc are inherently Progenitor coded, as they are children of the First Ones, and, like I said before, the Cosmic Forces are literally parts of the Progenitors themselves.

Meaning, the forces of Light and Shadow clashes? Those are extensions of the First Ones.

I understand that in the way the were presented in lore they of course influence all of the cosmic forces, but I think the overall direction forward for this is that all of the cosmic forces hold far more weight as themselves then they do as parts of Shadowlands progenitor lore. In-game lore has the Cosmos as Progenitor coded, but the presentation is instead that the Progenitors are Cosmos coded, and they can never match the importance of the cosmic forces we've known for 20 to 30 years.

I agree with Nathanyel that this stuff won't really be brought up again in any way other than maybe briefly being mentioned for sake of continuity. They overcomplicate things, dilute the worldbuilding of the lore and are a product of an extremely unpopular story. They can never be fully erased since they were introduced, but I don't believe they'll hold any weight moving forward.

[huth]

I wonder how many people actually know what FOMO stands for, let alone what it actually means.

IMO it should be spelled PhOMO. It's clearly not a rational thing.

[Joshuaj]

I understand that in the way the were presented in lore they of course influence all of the cosmic forces, but I think the overall direction forward for this is that all of the cosmic forces hold far more weight as themselves then they do as parts of Shadowlands progenitor lore. In-game lore has the Cosmos as Progenitor coded, but the presentation is instead that the Progenitors are Cosmos coded, and they can never match the importance of the cosmic forces we've known for 20 to 30 years.

I agree with Nathanyel that this stuff won't really be brought up again in any way other than maybe briefly being mentioned for sake of continuity. They overcomplicate things, dilute the worldbuilding of the lore and are a product of an extremely unpopular story. They can never be fully erased since they were introduced, but I don't believe they'll hold any weight moving forward.

Sounds like an argument of popularity then, which doesn't really apply to in-universe debates. Dunno how the presentation feels like they're "cosmos-coded" tho, as they very clearly have their own unique aesthetic, one that's showcased quite a bit in SL prior to Zereth Mortis (Namely VIA Oribos, the covenant soulbinding technology, the "soul conduit" stuff, Korthia, the Waystones, etc). In presentation, this stuff has always been Progenitor-coded, not the other way around.

And fair enough, but at the very least, I do see us going to different Zereths in the coming sagas, primarily as "end of saga" or "end of expac" events.

[Holdodlig]

December Trading Post is W3 focused:

It's been known for a while that november's TP would have this kind of stuff.