The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Zardas]

It's hard to retcon something that barely has any lore to beginn with.
And the Elements are universal, they are not of Order.

Murmur is explicitly from off-world, and Draenor already has an air Elemental Lord.

1. Murmur came from an unknown realm.

2. Draenor has an Air Elemental lord. These are the Furies.

And 3. How does Murmur imply Order? If anything, it seeks to spread the total opposite.

The "coming from another realm" is the thing that could be easily retconned. But yeah, we could also keep it that way, and just say that it's a powerful elemental from another planet who got summoned, maybe by mistake like for Ragnaros, by the shadow council.

As for the rest, aren't Elemental creatures of the realm of Order ? The only elementals I can think of from outside would be the death elemental from Shadowlands, but they seem more like a basic amalgam of the potent death energy lingering in that realm.

[Raetary]

This isn't the first year we roughly knew and have discussed to death what's coming, we still used to have a lot of hype around announcement time.

I think the main reason why its so quiet is that this year is rather dispersed with the anniverssary patch carrying most of the hype and 11.0.7 just having been announced.
And off-expansion years generally tend to produce less excitement, and we are in one.

I'm sure they'll announce something big though.
WC3:R 2 electric boogaloo, Roadmap + 11.1, mop classic or something, Rumble update.
HS just had its announcement so unless they got something else planned there isn't much there.

I'm holding out hope for a potential tv show.

[huth]

The "coming from another realm" is the thing that could be easily retconned. But yeah, we could also keep it that way, and just say that it's a powerful elemental from another planet who got summoned, maybe by mistake like for Ragnaros, by the shadow council.

As for the rest, aren't Elemental creatures of the realm of Order ? The only elementals I can think of from outside would be the death elemental from Shadowlands, but they seem more like a basic amalgam of the potent death energy lingering in that realm.

Elementals are from the material realm. They don't belong to any of the 6 forces.


On a related note, sound is more dangerous when it isn't disordered. Resonance catastrophes would likely be Murmur's tool of choice.
And it sought to spread destruction more than disorder.

[Zardas]

Elementals are from the material realm. They don't belong to any of the 6 forces.

What do you mean by "material realm" ? Isn't it the great dark beyond, so the Order ?

[Raetary]

As for the rest, aren't Elemental creatures of the realm of Order ?

No, the Elements (Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Decay and Spirit) are their own magical force, they compose everything and are found everywhere.
They are not tied to any specific cosmic power, but are the building blocks of all matter within the physical universe.

The Titans just impose themselves on Azeroths Elements, hence why they are so involved in titan shenanigans.
Even though they hate it: https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/The_History_Beneath_Us (+ Primalists)

The only elementals I can think of from outside would be the death elemental from Shadowlands, but they seem more like a basic amalgam of the potent death energy lingering in that realm.

Those aren't The Elements that i'm talking about, they are just Elementals in name only.
Blizzard uses that label for pretty much any creature that consists primarily of coalesced magical energy, or represents it. (both in the actual NPC name or just the creature tag)
Often times even if they aren't actually elementals. (See all the 'Elemental' tagged Golems, Sprites, Lashers, Treants/Ancients, etc.)

We also got various Arcane Elementals, Felfire Elementals, Light Elementals.
Voidwalkers and almost any other Void creature can also be called an Elemental, and many are labeled as such by the game.

But that's beside the point, the Elements, the things Shamans talk to and we see all around, are not part of Order.

What do you mean by "material realm" ? Isn't it the great dark beyond, so the Order ?

The Great Dark Beyond is not Order either...

[huth]

What do you mean by "material realm" ? Isn't it the great dark beyond, so the Order ?

Yes and no. The Great Dark is not the realm of Order. It doesn't really have a distinct name of its own, though, he Great Dark mainly refers to space.

[Zardas]

No, the Elements (Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Decay and Spirit) are their own magical force, they compose everything and are found everywhere.
They are not tied to any specific cosmic power, but are the building blocks of all matter within the physical universe.

The Titans just impose themselves on Azeroths Elements, hence why they are so involved in titan shenanigans.
Even though they hate it: https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/The_History_Beneath_Us (+ Primalists)



Those aren't The Elements that i'm talking about, they are just Elementals in name only.
Blizzard uses that label for pretty much any creature that consists primarily of coalesced magical energy, or represents it. (both in the actual NPC name or just the creature tag)
Often times even if they aren't actually elementals. (See all the 'Elemental' tagged Golems, Sprites, Lashers, Treants/Ancients, etc.)

We also got various Arcane Elementals, Felfire Elementals, Light Elementals.
Voidwalkers and almost any other Void creature can also be called an Elemental, and many are labeled as such by the game.

But that's beside the point, the Elements, the things Shamans talk to and we see all around, are not part of Order.

The Great Dark Beyond is not Order either...

I feel like it all comes down to a missinterpretation of what is the realm of Order. From what I understood, every Forces had its own realm with it being :

Death : The Shadowlands
Life : Unknown
Disorder : The Twisting Nether
Order : The great dark beyond, with Azeroth and all the other planets
Void : Unkown
Light : Unkown

Seems quite fitting to me that the place where the Pantheon of each forces reign encompasses the limit of said realm, and since the Titans, the Pantheon of Order, reign upon space...

[Raetary]

I feel like it all comes down to a missinterpretation of what is the realm of Order. From what I understood, every Forces had its own realm with it being :

Death : The Shadowlands
Life : Unknown
Disorder : The Twisting Nether
Order : The great dark beyond, with Azeroth and all the other planets
Void : Unkown
Light : Unkown

Seems quite fitting to me that the place where the Pantheon of each forces reign encompasses the limit of said realm, and since the Titans, the Pantheon of Order, reign upon space...

Yes, every Force has its own Relam.
The Great Dark is not the Order-Realm, it's the physical reality between all of them and is sought after by them.

The Titans are not 'reigning over it' anymore than the Legion was or Life itself is, they are imposing their will upon it, ordering whatever they come across.

As for the Pantheon, we just started a whole Saga that's meant to uncover a big conspiracy lead by them.
World Souls are not explicitly creations of Order anymore, and it's very much yet to be revealed how the Pantheon came to the position that they are in right now.

[Zardas]

Yes, every Force has its own Relam.
The Great Dark is not the Order-Realm, it's the physical reality between all of them and is sought after by them.

The Titans are not 'reigning over it' anymore than the Legion was or Life itself is, they are imposing their will upon it, ordering whatever they come across.

As for the Pantheon, we just started a whole Saga that's meant to uncover a big conspiracy lead by them.
World Souls are not explicitly creations of Order anymore, and it's very much yet to be revealed how the Pantheon came to the position that they are in right now.

Even if Titans happen to not be born from planets, they have still roamed the Great Dark Beyond. Meanwhile, the other Pantheons seem unable to manifest in it, except in some very diminished form. Seems much more logical to me to consider that the Great Dark Beyond and the realm of Order are one and the same.

[Joshuaj]

The "coming from another realm" is the thing that could be easily retconned. But yeah, we could also keep it that way, and just say that it's a powerful elemental from another planet who got summoned, maybe by mistake like for Ragnaros, by the shadow council.

As for the rest, aren't Elemental creatures of the realm of Order ? The only elementals I can think of from outside would be the death elemental from Shadowlands, but they seem more like a basic amalgam of the potent death energy lingering in that realm.

Considering we know VERY little of the Twisting Nether, it's very possible Murmur comes from an unknown realm in the Disorder domain.

As for the elements, no. The 6 elements of the primordial ring make by the physical building blocks for the mortal realm. The mortal realm is a mixture of all 6 cosmic forces + the primordial ring. However, elementals aren't just "element ring" only. There can be elementals for the other forces magics as well, as we've seen with Arcane (Order), Fel (Disorder), Light/Holy (Light), Anima and Necrotic, (Death), Life and Nature (Life), and more commonly lately, Shadow and Void (Shadow).

Heck, there are Automa Elementals within Zereth Mortis as well.

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Even if Titans happen to not be born from planets, they have still roamed the Great Dark Beyond. Meanwhile, the other Pantheons seem unable to manifest in it, except in some very diminished form. Seems much more logical to me to consider that the Great Dark Beyond and the realm of Order are one and the same.

Based off current lore, it's better to argue that the First Ones gave the Titans a unique gift that allows them access into the Beyond. Likely for the purpose of "nurturing the Worldsouls", though that's my theory.

- - - Updated - - -

Btw, my theory leans on the idea that the Titans lost sight of their true mission in the Beyond, and they're turning Worldsouls into Titans so they could be the dominant power within the cosmos.

[Raetary]

Even if Titans happen to not be born from planets, they have still roamed the Great Dark Beyond. Meanwhile, the other Pantheons seem unable to manifest in it, except in some very diminished form. Seems much more logical to me to consider that the Great Dark Beyond and the realm of Order are one and the same.

Look i get it, i speculated the same thing when Chronicle 1 came out, but it never made much sense even back then when the book itself establishes it as the main product of creation of the Warcraft big bang, and how every Force is actively represented in it and influencing it.

They roam the Great Dark because they are in the Great Dark, they are World Souls, that isn't in question.
The question is how those World Souls ended up as the Pantheon of Order to beginn with.

[Worldshaper]

Elementals probably belong to Life, since they sprung to life when a Shard of Light hit Azeroth and suffused it with life in the early days.

But they might be elemental in nature because the Elements were all that existed on Azeroth at the time, perhaps.

Could also be that the Worldsoul, which presumably existed also, was initially filled with elemental "magic", and that the Shard of Light's life-giving power was more of a catalyst, a spark if you will, that caused the primordial Worldsoul to create Elemental life all around it.

Then the Old Gods came, and the Void started to impact the Worldsoul. Perhaps they used its life-giving powers to create their own, abominable creatures like the Aqir.

Sort of crude races like the Tauren the Trolls might've arisen at some point before or after the Old Gods' arrival, as they feel quite primordial in nature.

Question is, did Elune or whichever other Life deity roam Azeroth at the time? Earth Mother mythology seems to suggest they did. But it's a bit unclear if that all started with Elune's collaboration with Eonar and Freya, or if it precedes the Titans' arrival.

Either way, it feels like we're heading in a direction where Vrykul and Earthen might have evolved as well, before being turned to stone by the Titans and subsequently liberated by the Old Gods, OR started out as Titan-forged before being turned mortal by the Worldsoul's influence.

We know life can evolve without a Worldsoul (see Draenor), but when it does, it seems like it remains in a pretty crude and primordial state (also see Draenor).

Is the Worldsoul then merely a sort of evolution-booster, as seen when the Dark Trolls turned into Night Elves around the Well of Eternity?

So it boosted the elements into Elementals, and later other primitive life forms into various races we have today.

But does it turn inanimate objects into life, and cause real consciousness? Did it turn rocks and water into living creatures or was that all thanks to the Shard?

Were Titan-forged effectively machines before being turned into Dwarves and Humans, and are the Khaz Algar Earthen a missing link?

This 5th Old God who used to preside over Azj-Kahet, did it use the Worldsoul as a battery to create a bunch of life?

Or is it Elun'Ahir that's the real reason for it all?

Is the Beledar the Shard of Light that brought life to Azeroth (hence all the crude Elementals around Khaz Algar), and was Elun'Ahir planted near it to use that power somehow?

[Nymrohd]

I'd say Elementals probably are part of the Physical realm and belong to all forces; animism seems to be part of every Force after all.

[huth]

Even if Titans happen to not be born from planets, they have still roamed the Great Dark Beyond. Meanwhile, the other Pantheons seem unable to manifest in it, except in some very diminished form. Seems much more logical to me to consider that the Great Dark Beyond and the realm of Order are one and the same.

Which force is having trouble with it? Disorder, Light, Void, Order seem to be managing just fine, as is Life. The denizens of the Shadowlands generally don't seem terribly interested in going, though we know the Maldraxxians at least can if they need to.

[Ersula]

I feel like it all comes down to a missinterpretation of what is the realm of Order. From what I understood, every Forces had its own realm with it being :

Death : The Shadowlands
Life : Unknown
Disorder : The Twisting Nether
Order : The great dark beyond, with Azeroth and all the other planets
Void : Unkown
Light : Unkown

Seems quite fitting to me that the place where the Pantheon of each forces reign encompasses the limit of said realm, and since the Titans, the Pantheon of Order, reign upon space...

If you look at the cosmology chart, there are three planes of existence: The Shadowlands, The Material Plane & The Dream. The Dream is touching the Life Sphere & the Shadowlands is touching the Death Sphere but they don't own them. That's mainly why I don't think the spheres themselves are actual locations & why the forces are fighting for control of the three planes of existence. Example, The Necrolords talk about having to fight off the Void & the Light from trying to take territory in the Shadowlands.

Even if Titans happen to not be born from planets, they have still roamed the Great Dark Beyond. Meanwhile, the other Pantheons seem unable to manifest in it, except in some very diminished form. Seems much more logical to me to consider that the Great Dark Beyond and the realm of Order are one and the same.

The Death Pantheon mentioned that the First Ones gave them the prime directive of protecting the shadowlands. They're not supposed to leave, not that they're incapable; for example the Necrolords regularly entered the material plane & twisting Nether to fight the Legion & The Kyrians go to the material plane to ferry souls. As well as the Primus himself hiding Frostmorne on Azeroth, etc.

I'd say Elementals probably are part of the Physical realm and belong to all forces; animism seems to be part of every Force after all.

Yes, this has already been established. Elementals were born from the planet & waged war until the Titans gave them their own Elemental planes, not unlike way they hid away Thros & The Dragon Isles.

[Jolly Roger]

if there are followers of azeroth then its possible we will get an azerite focused class

with azeroth touched by essentially every force it means a possible 3 spec hybrid

[Auxis]

How many Tendies did everyone get this month? I had 1585 when I filled the bar and spent it all on stuff. Just came back to the TP and it's saying I've got 1585 again, and I still have all of the things I purchased crossed off and are in my appearance tab/s.

It should be 1000 + a bonus 500, yeah?

I'm afraid to spend it on anything b/c it doesn't seem right that I got 3000 tenders this month.

[Nymrohd]

if there are followers of azeroth then its possible we will get an azerite focused class

with azeroth touched by essentially every force it means a possible 3 spec hybrid

Wasn't that BfA? Are we looking to recycle BfA sfx?

[Alanar]

Just a random find really, but I noticed this new shaman form sports new cloth physics as a kilt.
This is the first time they have done this for a player model. Hopefully they expand this even more.

[Sondrelk]

How many Tendies did everyone get this month? I had 1585 when I filled the bar and spent it all on stuff. Just came back to the TP and it's saying I've got 1585 again, and I still have all of the things I purchased crossed off and are in my appearance tab/s.

It should be 1000 + a bonus 500, yeah?

I'm afraid to spend it on anything b/c it doesn't seem right that I got 3000 tenders this month.

The tendies seem to get bugged quite often honestly. Mostly I get the bug where it says I don't have any. My guess is that you just got lucky and got the reverse of it.
I would guess that if you use it, it might give an error message, only allow you to use what you are supposed to have. Or less likely, give you negative tendies after it recalculates properly.

Tendies are after all the only truly account wide currency in WoW that I know of. So not surprised that it is so buggy given the developers seemed to make transferrable currencies precisely to avoid having to deal with that issue.