The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

It's all well and good to have another use for tank specs, but unless those players move on to playing those specs in dungeons, it doesn't really help to fill the lack of actual tanks. Solo content doesn't affect the role imbalance at all.

Helps to get people used to the tank gameplay.
I'll be frank, the issue with this perceived lack of tanks (I don't think it is that bad tbh) is entirely social and not because of game mechanics. As a tank, I play group content with friends and my guild unless I am doing something really easy (e.g. TW content). Tanking like healing are very fun roles when played with a friendly group. Sure the devs could work on social engineering of the game to reduce the toxicity but given they took a decade of M+ being available to address the most basic version of M+ griefing I don't expect much. I mean just look at this forum and how many people come with the attitude that their time is more important than the rest of the group's.

[Eldryth]

Helps to get people used to the tank gameplay.
I'll be frank, the issue with this perceived lack of tanks (I don't think it is that bad tbh) is entirely social and not because of game mechanics. As a tank, I play group content with friends and my guild unless I am doing something really easy (e.g. TW content). Tanking like healing are very fun roles when played with a friendly group. Sure the devs could work on social engineering of the game to reduce the toxicity but given they took a decade of M+ being available to address the most basic version of M+ griefing I don't expect much. I mean just look at this forum and how many people come with the attitude that their time is more important than the rest of the group's.

Oh yeah, that's probably a big factor too. I only ever play in guild groups myself regardless of my role because there's always too big a chance of getting a toxic player otherwise. And that's yet another thing that more specs wouldn't affect- not sure anything could help it, for that matter.

New classes and specs are great purely for the sake of having more options. I'm still looking for something that feels right enough to main permanently rather than rethinking what to play each season, and really hope the survey is real because I think the three options I think they're most likely to choose (Artificer, Bard, and Tinker) have a real chance of filling that hole for me. But I doubt it would have a significant impact on the overall role dynamics and distribution.

[Holdodlig]

Going to change the topic but do you think we'll have 11.1 ptr this week ? Seems likely that they releases the PTR next week because Xmas is coming next and most of the team will probably be meeting their families.

[Dracullus]

Going to change the topic but do you think we'll have 11.1 ptr this week ? Seems likely that they releases the PTR next week because Xmas is coming next and most of the team will probably be meeting their families.

Yes, they don't release anything between Christmas and ~15th January and Ion said PTR will be this year. So if there are no delays, not only PTR will come this week but also it will have to be pretty advanced build.

[huth]

Helps to get people used to the tank gameplay.
I'll be frank, the issue with this perceived lack of tanks (I don't think it is that bad tbh) is entirely social and not because of game mechanics. As a tank, I play group content with friends and my guild unless I am doing something really easy (e.g. TW content). Tanking like healing are very fun roles when played with a friendly group. Sure the devs could work on social engineering of the game to reduce the toxicity but given they took a decade of M+ being available to address the most basic version of M+ griefing I don't expect much. I mean just look at this forum and how many people come with the attitude that their time is more important than the rest of the group's.

This week is a good time to learn why people don't want to play tanks. Just do the weekly as a tank in LfG you'll lose the desire quickly.

[Nymrohd]

This week is a good time to learn why people don't want to play tanks. Just do the weekly as a tank in LfG you'll lose the desire quickly.

Unless you are very undergeared, I don't see why it'd be a problem tbh.
To clarify, I did it on my monk and I very much could go fast.

[huth]

Unless you are very undergeared, I don't see why it'd be a problem tbh.
To clarify, I did it on my monk and I very much could go fast.

That's hardly anything to do with the problem. I could solo the whole thing but i'd rather just not go.

[The-Shan]

Most of the classes look like red herrings to me. If you read between the lines it feels like blizzard is curious how people feel about maybe 1-2 of them.

[Teriz]

No, you're pointing out the mechanics that your imagined version of how it works would have.

Actually no. I'm pointing out mechanics already showcased in WC3, HotS, and WoW which have been attributed to characters fighting inside mechs. It's doubtful Blizzard would abandon those mechanics because they've been rather consistent. In addition, we've had mechanics be translated from WC3/HotS into classes before, so in this case it's likely to occur again.

As for why it wouldn't make sense? Because it would spend 99% of its time in melee and the ability would just be pointless.

Blasting something in the face at point blank range can be just as satisfying as blasting something from far away.

And the hunter mechanic was mostly notable for its deadzone that you'd absolutely wouldn't want on a tank. Without that, there's little benefit to it and to much risk of things breaking.

Are we seriously arguing that at this stage in WoW Blizzard couldn't fix that mechanic so that there wouldn't be a deadzone?

And what Teriz describes is far more similar to a Guardian Druid than he seems to realise.

Uh how exactly? Simply because there's a form change doesn't mean it's a reskinned Guardian Druid. Multiple classes have form change mechanics.

- - - Updated - - -

Most of the classes look like red herrings to me. If you read between the lines it feels like blizzard is curious how people feel about maybe 1-2 of them.

I largely agree with this. I do believe that Bard, Witch, Titan Killer, Prismatic, and Celestial Lancer are all rather huge red herrings and would never be classes. The Bard description sounds more like a hero talent tree or straight up talent for Priests or Paladins.

The interesting note on the Tinker entry is that Blizzard not only talks about what the class would do, but it also shows how it would do it. It does that with Warden as well, but it was worded rather strangely.

[Supertoster]

Odd you mentioned Evoker instead of DK tbh as they fit a lot more scenarios than DKs imo.

DK is a stereotypical dark-knight or anti-paladin. It is a very common fantasy trope.
Also, it is a self-sufficient trope - it works by itself and does not need a specific environment or conditions to make sense. No mater when and where, DK is just an edgy darklord that can fight against anything.

DH, on the other hand, is a Hunter on Demons. He is an anti-demon class. If there are no demons - there are no reasons for DH do exist. This is why outside of Legion DH is kinda silly.

Evoker is just not a class, it is a creature.

[Cheezits]

I believe Witch is one of the real options. They are aware there has been demand for Witch Doctors since vanilla, and tying them to the Drust and Decay for a faction agnostic class is creative and makes sense. It also serves as a "Decay" class or spec that we don't have.

Bard is also not a red herring as they wouldn't bother to give it plot relevancy if it was fake, they would give it a generic bard description.

[Teriz]

I believe Witch is one of the real options. They are aware there has been demand for Witch Doctors since vanilla, and tying them to the Drust and Decay for a faction agnostic class is creative and makes sense. It also serves as a "Decay" class or spec that we don't have.

Bard is also not a red herring as they wouldn't bother to give it plot relevancy if it was fake, they would give it a generic bard description.

The problem with Witch is that you can rather easily slot it into the Shaman class. Shaman even has some witch based abilities like making it rain frogs, hex, and Primordial Wave. Also Drust and Troll aspects are already present in the Shaman class.

Bard's issue is that it's based entirely on the Radiant Song, which is incredibly simplistic and doesn't strike me as having enough footing to be a class unto itself. Instead, I can rather easily see that be pushed as a hero talent tree or frankly an end talent in the core Paladin talent tree. For example, Paladins getting a talent that turns their auras into Radiant Songs increasing their power and utility. Aura Mastery could also get a similar boost based on the concept.

[huth]

Actually no. I'm pointing out mechanics already showcased in WC3, HotS, and WoW which have been attributed to characters fighting inside mechs. It's doubtful Blizzard would abandon those mechanics because they've been rather consistent. In addition, we've had mechanics be translated from WC3/HotS into classes before, so in this case it's likely to occur again.

Literally the same thing. You constructed a spec in your head without any idea of what it would actually look like and entirely based on what you think would look cool, rather than be practical. Especially since you clearly have no idea how tanks actually play.

[Teriz]

Literally the same thing. You constructed a spec in your head without any idea of what it would actually look like and entirely based on what you think would look cool, rather than be practical. Especially since you clearly have no idea how tanks actually play.

If every expansion class has pulled mechanics from WC3 and HotS, why would we assume that a Tinker class which has representation in WC3/HotS (and some Tinker HotS abilities are already translated into WoW maintaining those mechanics) wouldn't also get the same treatment?

[Hugnomo]

Haven't contributed to the thread in a long while, but the class survey, if real, seems very exciting!
Honestly, I just love variety and in my ideal world all of them would be introduced into the game.

I would even be fine with them being hero talents IF they allowed them to represent more drastic changes, at least visually.
I loved the approach to Bard through the radiant song. I loved tying gilnean harvest witches, drust witches, troll witch doctors under one witch class. I love it when they create something that is the essence for several cultural interpretations, satisfying many class fantasies in one go, while also enriching the world and the different cultures with the different takes on the same concept.

I'd say witch, bard, tinker jumped out to me as the most well rounded. BUT the sargeras titankiller concept or the astrologian are really intriguing too and I love it when they surprise us with something truly out of left field.

I feel sorry for them if this is indeed real and it got leaked. 'Cause now, at least to people like me, the potential for many of these exciting ideas will never come to fruition, and there's some disappointment in that, and it's through no fault of their own.

[Nibelheimy]

If this survey turns out to be real, its time to drop multiple re-occurring arguments against a lot of requested classes - "this already basically exists" & "this is basically a profession" arguments.

If real, it shows Blizzard are happy to make a Atrologian, even if Shadow priests have 1 space related spell.
It shows a possibility of making not 1, but 2 mechanical and gun based classes.
It shows that Necromancers are possible, even if Warlocks exist already.
It shows that they're happy to consider a witch/witch doctor styled spec focusing on Decay over elements, even though Shaman is claimed by some to cover this role already.

I hope this is real, even if we get the ones I personally think are stupid, because it proves that there really is no rule that stops a new class being added.

- - - Updated - - -

I loved the approach to Bard through the radiant song. I loved tying gilnean harvest witches, drust witches, troll witch doctors under one witch class. I love it when they create something that is the essence for several cultural interpretations, satisfying many class fantasies in one go, while also enriching the world and the different cultures with the different takes on the same concept.

I'd say witch, bard, tinker jumped out to me as the most well rounded. BUT the sargeras titankiller concept or the astrologian are really intriguing too and I love it when they surprise us with something truly out of left field.

Agree with these classes specifically, although I would also love to see Apothecary and Necromancer. I do have to say, got to speaking to my brother about the gun classes and we had flashbacks to tanking Shadowfang keep when Cata was fresh and Lord Godfrey was porting around double blasting magic missiles with two guns. That felt very cool at the time.

[Teriz]

If this survey turns out to be real, its time to drop multiple re-occurring arguments against a lot of requested classes - "this already basically exists" & "this is basically a profession" arguments.

If real, it shows Blizzard are happy to make a Atrologian, even if Shadow priests have 1 space related spell.
It shows a possibility of making not 1, but 2 mechanical and gun based classes.
It shows that Necromancers are possible, even if Warlocks exist already.
It shows that they're happy to consider a witch/witch doctor styled spec focusing on Decay over elements, even though Shaman is claimed by some to cover this role already.

I hope this is real, even if we get the ones I personally think are stupid, because it proves that there really is no rule that stops a new class being added.

Color me skeptical, but I don't see a scenario where Blizzard builds a 3 specialization class with dozens of talents, abilities, and hero talents based off of a concept that can easily be slotted into existing classes.

[Cheezits]

Color me skeptical, but I don't see a scenario where Blizzard builds a 3 specialization class with dozens of talents, abilities, and hero talents based off of a concept that can easily be slotted into existing classes.

Outside of Red magic, that's exactly what Evoker is. To the point that people didn't believe it at the start because Mages and Druids (and later, Shamans) already exist.

I doubt all of survey choices are meant to be 3 spec and we'll probably get some more 2 spec classes. That or one of these is a secret 3rd DH spec in disguise (probably Titankiller due to Sargeras)

[Teriz]

Outside of Red magic, that's exactly what Evoker is. To the point that people didn't believe it at the start because Mages and Druids (and later, Shamans) already exist.

I doubt all of survey choices are meant to be 3 spec and we'll probably get some more 2 spec classes. That or one of these is a secret 3rd DH spec in disguise (probably Titankiller due to Sargeras)

What benefitted Evokers is that they were a race/class, with that race being draconic and giving abilities to the class. That's what separated Evokers from Druids and Mages.

I'm simply not seeing that separation point with stuff like Bards, Witches, Celestial Lancers, Prismatics, etc. That stuff just screams 4th spec or hero talents.

[Mecheon]

I largely agree with this. I do believe that Bard, Witch, Titan Killer, Prismatic, and Celestial Lancer are all rather huge red herrings and would never be classes. The Bard description sounds more like a hero talent tree or straight up talent for Priests or Paladins.

The interesting note on the Tinker entry is that Blizzard not only talks about what the class would do, but it also shows how it would do it. It does that with Warden as well, but it was worded rather strangely.

I'm gonna disagree on that. Sure Witch has a lot of druid/priest influence, but Bard is Bard. Its one of the more popular RPG classes in general and tying it to the Radiant Song gives it that Warcraft feel. Frankly I'd see more issues with necromancer just slapped in or maybe astrologian

Like, Bard's that popular of an RPG class they did the old April Fools joke and its been popular since then. Its trying to get the wider RPG class into the Warcraft style, just like how Monk goes with the Pandaria side of things, and nothing about the description of using the Song of Azeroth implies its a priest or paladin thing. If anything it sounds like a new class with a support spec like Aug