The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Skytotem]

What was so messed up, that you are spefically mention it?

Basically the Dragonmaw used the demon soul to keep Alexstraza imprisoned and forced her and her consorts to make more eggs, which basically means both were raped, this is an exceptionally messy and fucked up concept that I'm not a fan of in general, the lore from WC2 to WC3 and day of the dragon went through a lot of clunky retcons that blizz didn't really handle well to explain the change in direction, and while I am a huge fan of orcs having nuance, the way they went about the parts of keeping the dragons imprisoned are... bad.

[Hitei]

Okay, but that's not actually analogous at all. In the scenario I described you would will get two usable items and the third would be outside of your level range. You're getting the same and more that is withheld, rather than half and half like you suppose.

What? In the first version you got one item off a boss.
In the second version you get one item off a boss (and one placeholder).

The same + a "withheld" hypothetical future item.

In the scenario I described, you can literally have a mountain that is unscalable, a lake that you cannot cross due to fatigue or a desert that does likewise. You don't even have to have it shown on the minimap. The whole point is that you are getting one single coherent landmass with a single coherent narrative set much like you do in vanilla.

That isn't what happened in Vanilla at all though. Putting aside "a single coherent narrative" (which... lmao, it's harder to get farther from what Vanilla actually was than that), what Vanilla actually ended up doing was having dozens of complete dead end and half-formed hooks that they simply hadn't fleshed out, based around things that just didn't exist. "There's something under the ground here" where "something" meant "we didn't write anything, maybe one day a story will use that hook"; "There's rocks in the way (because there's not actually anything on the other side of these hills yet)". "This person went missing, maybe one day a future quest will address what actually happened."

Do you really just want random mini contents of 4-5 zones that appear one day forever all because the idea of having to work towards or wait for something triggers you?

That sounds truly absurd. You've had a lot of L takes in this thread lol.

No, if you stopped trying to deflect with bad strawman arguments and ad hominems, and bothered to actually read, you'd pretty easily see that what I want is an unfettered cohesive explorable world, not a piecemeal collection of timegated zones where there's some innane reason for not being able to just step into the next place that's so contrived it makes "unexplored island no one's bothered to go to yet" look deep and thoughtful.

The fact that you're having to justify barring exploration and dividing up the world into off-limit areas with shit like "lol you can't go around this lake, to the completely visible far shore that is even noted on your map as a known place... because um, you'd get tired if you tried to swim it?" should make it self-evident how much shittier an approach releasing sections of a larger continent is.

[Kiivar86]

Pressing 1 for Lightning Bolt and having a cast bar come up, and pressing 1 for sinister strike and then waiting for energy and GCD are, in distilled essence, the exact same action of pressing the same button every second or two to attack an enemy. Their presentation is everything.

There is a large difference in experience between a map full of invisible walls and areas that aren't actually there, and a map that is fully explorable to which additional things are added, even if the distilled essence is that both involve a similar size of landmass and more places later.

I don't really see the difference, honestly. We've had areas with invisible walls, with domes, with fog, islands just over yonder that we can't reach for XYZ. So I don't see why it is suddenly a concern.

[huth]

Basically the Dragonmaw used the demon soul to keep Alexstraza imprisoned and forced her and her consorts to make more eggs, which basically means both were raped, this is an exceptionally messy and fucked up concept that I'm not a fan of in general, the lore from WC2 to WC3 and day of the dragon went through a lot of clunky retcons that blizz didn't really handle well to explain the change in direction, and while I am a huge fan of orcs having nuance, the way they went about the parts of keeping the dragons imprisoned are... bad.

It being messy and fucked up was kinda the point there. The Dragonmaw of the time were messy and fucked up. That does not make the lore itself messed up, however.
It seems you're more concerned with the story being "tidy" than what is actually being portrayed. War is always messy. WarCraft having messy events in its lore is inevitable.

[Worldshaper]

They could also do other Cosmic Domains.

God, I hope not.

[Skytotem]

It being messy and fucked up was kinda the point there. The Dragonmaw of the time were messy and fucked up. That does not make the lore itself messed up, however.
It seems you're more concerned with the story being "tidy" than what is actually being portrayed. War is always messy. WarCraft having messy events in its lore is inevitable.

If you're going to write a story about the horror of war, or the tragedy of rape, you'd need to give it more attention to detail and gravity than WoW's writers have been capable of.

Just including edgy fucked up things doesn't make a story 'good' or give it some intrinsic value.

The sexual assault parts of the dragonmaw plotline are a square peg in a round hole, the tone of warcraft doesn't fit with them anymore and arguably never did.

[Alanar]

Basically the Dragonmaw used the demon soul to keep Alexstraza imprisoned and forced her and her consorts to make more eggs, which basically means both were raped, this is an exceptionally messy and fucked up concept that I'm not a fan of in general, the lore from WC2 to WC3 and day of the dragon went through a lot of clunky retcons that blizz didn't really handle well to explain the change in direction, and while I am a huge fan of orcs having nuance, the way they went about the parts of keeping the dragons imprisoned are... bad.

Uhm, I really thought you meant something else entirely, not really about the story itself.

Frankly I am huge supporter for freedom of story and also freedon for comedians etc. I mean its just a story..so idk how I feel about this. I heard about the story, but again to me its just a story. It probably has something to do with that is a kids game 12+.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

They could also do other Cosmic Domains.

Oh, surely we must enjoy the presence of the ineffable First Ones. I mean, they're like the Titans, but Danuser says they're cooler. Ergo, they must be cooler.

Frankly I am huge supporter for freedom of story and also freedon for comedians etc. I mean its just a story..so idk how I feel about this. I heard about the story, but again to me its just a story.

The issue is a profound risk of tonal overcorrection moving forward. Dragonflight is a microcosm of this, and it's all very unpleasant. In spite of generally having a better and more sensible story than the main plotline in BfA and the entirety of Shadowlands, Dragonflight has been tonally-insufferable. It's very good in every other respect, which makes the tone even more frustrating. Hopefully, 11.0 will go ahead and take a darker turn to put everything back on course. Unfortunately, I do fear that daring to touch a sufficiently-dark topic in the future will set Twitter frothing. Although I'm still very uncertain about the original variant of the Alexstrasza quest making the protagonist a retroactive quasi-accessory in Alexstrasza's rape, I am very certain in my opposition to overcorrection leading to the scrubbing of all content of that stripe. I fear that they'll start scrubbing even where it doesn't feel reflective of Blizzard's real-world history, and we know full well that the execs will take any opportunity to placate privileged Twitter users who value surface-level acknowledgments of their feelings over any signal of valuable alteration in their conduct.

In regards to how I would like to see things work going forward, I think the ideal tone is something closer to BfA. I think it was one of the better expansions in its general tone, but it was made very awkward by the Teletubbies philosophy the protagonists expounded and the one-dimensional portrayal of the forces of both good and evil. If Blizzard elevates the nuance of the moral frameworks the characters employ, I could see an expansion with a similar tone turning out to be the most appealing vision of WarCraft, at least to me.

[huth]

Uhm, I really thought you meant something else entirely, not really about the story itself.

Frankly I am huge supporter for freedom of story and also freedon for comedians etc. I mean its just a story..so idk how I feel about this. I heard about the story, but again to me its just a story. It probably has something to do with that is a kids game 12+.

Yeah, that's a better reason to keep it out. The subject matter is a bit much for a T/12+ rated game.

[Alanar]

Yeah, that's a better reason to keep it out. The subject matter is a bit much for a T/12+ rated game.

Thats the only reason i could come up with.
Like I said to me this is part of storytelling and it should hit with the reader, but not this topic in a 12+ game.

[Murlocos]

I've said my piece on it before so I don't want to get too self-indulgent on it. "Rock and roll fantasy" is probably the best descriptor of classic Warcraft I've heard, or if you want to distill it into a simple buzzword, epic. BfA and especially SL is when focus began shifting towards intrigue (which in most cases failed to deliver), and below that layer the setting was stewing in misery and futility that became one-note. DF made the intrigue more palatable, but in typical Blizzard fashion the tone shifted to the other extreme and the theme of healing is starting to become repetitive. I think this is an easier base to work with, they just need to introduce more variety in the stories they're telling.

[Santandame]

They're not like the Titans at all. Can we stop this spread of misinformation already?

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It's gonna happen regardless. We'll get our Azeroth plots, hell 11.0 may also be Azeroth related, but none of that means we'll not get more Realms anytime soon.

I wouldn’t be so sure. The vast majority of the player/fanbase are not fans of the cosmic realms at all. Blizzard have clearly taken that feedback on board. They don’t revisit that setting anytime soon, if even again at risk of losing a significant number of the player base who tuned out during Shadowlands.

It’s not an appealing source for them to return to.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

If they ever bring the first ones, please add evil faction campaign so i can just put gorehowl in their cosmic skulls.

Evil vs good campaign that is not based on Alliance vs horde could be fun now when i think about it, it would be a player choice, but then you can't let anyone win.. so i guess something like that would never happen.

Or even not just fully evil, but "im done with your shit" kinda second campaign.

[Khaza-R]

Somewhat unrelated but the new Hearthstone expansion revealed today is titan-themed.

Each class will get their own corresponding titan. Which is interesting because there's 11 classes in Hearthstone but only 8 known titans. So I am curious if we might see some new titans introduced in the HS universe. Should be worth keeping an eye on at least.

[Santandame]

Somewhat unrelated but the new Hearthstone expansion revealed today is titan-themed.

Each class will get their own corresponding titan. Which is interesting because there's 11 classes in Hearthstone but only 8 known titans. So I am curious if we might see some new titans introduced in the HS universe. Should be worth keeping an eye on at least.

I suppose if anything this rules out a Titan related expansion next as WoW and HS don’t tend to run concurrent expansions with the same or similar theme.

If we do get a World Revamp, the time would be now. It’s the most likely it’s been, with a plethora of hints being offered up. But it’s a situation of I’ll believe it when I see it.

I’m leaning towards Avaloren, a land free of Titan influence with several new races and civilisations that are Void aligned, providing a new insight into the Void and those who are aligned to it.

South Seas and Nightsquall failing that.

[Berkilak]

And they introduced a black female titan... just to fulfill their wokism quota. This is ridiculous...the Titans aren't even white, they're silver/gold/blue/red...I hate this blackwashing.

Imagine living in a headspace where any of this even mentally registers for you at all, let alone as problematic.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

New trading post items announced - Blood troll armor is here, gul'dan staff, netherwing dragonriding drake and others.

[Raetary]

Somewhat unrelated but the new Hearthstone expansion revealed today is titan-themed.

Each class will get their own corresponding titan. Which is interesting because there's 11 classes in Hearthstone but only 8 known titans. So I am curious if we might see some new titans introduced in the HS universe. Should be worth keeping an eye on at least.

Chances are, unless its a keeper (maybe Inaara), that they already showcased one.

As this one:


Is a new face.

[Khaza-R]

I suppose if anything this rules out a Titan related expansion next as WoW and HS don’t tend to run concurrent expansions with the same or similar theme.

If we do get a World Revamp, the time would be now. It’s the most likely it’s been, with a plethora of hints being offered up. But it’s a situation of I’ll believe it when I see it.

I’m leaning towards Avaloren, a land free of Titan influence with several new races and civilisations that are Void aligned, providing a new insight into the Void and those who are aligned to it.

South Seas and Nightsquall failing that.

Tbf, by the time the next WoW expansion comes out Hearthstone will be like 4 expansions ahead in terms of theme. So I don't think its really much of an issue. Also HS expansions are always about a specific location. This one is revolves around Ulduar and I don't see WoW going there again.

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Chances are, unless its a keeper (maybe Inaara), that they already showcased one.

As this one:


Is a new face.

Wow, good catch. I didn't even notice her in the key art. Would be kind of weird if she wasn't a titan considering the rest of them are. But I guess we will have to see.

I am guessing Sargeras and Argus will pop up. So that could still leave two more titans hinted at.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Somewhat unrelated but the new Hearthstone expansion revealed today is titan-themed.

Each class will get their own corresponding titan. Which is interesting because there's 11 classes in Hearthstone but only 8 known titans. So I am curious if we might see some new titans introduced in the HS universe. Should be worth keeping an eye on at least.

What's to bet Azeroth's design will be teased like the N'Zoth design before it?