The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

How do you think the Great Dark Beyond came to be though?

On the most technical level, its just vacant space. It is the nothingness that predates everything. The things in it were surely designed by the First Ones, if that's what you mean.

Also, Argus was a unique case and likely wasn't the intended outcome for a Worldsoul lol. As for Eonar? She has connections with Life. Elune has connections with other forces as well. The pattern literally has it to where these forces and their pantheons can intersect and work with one another.

Then why did Amonthul punish Eonar for acting outside the First One's directives if that's exactly what they were intended to do?

I think we're getting overly semantic. Being neutral to the cosmology & being a "combination of all 6 forces" is functionally the exact same thing.

[Joshuaj]

On the most technical level, its just vacant space. It is the nothingness that predates everything. The things in it were surely designed by the First Ones, if that's what you mean.

Then why did Amonthul punish Eonar for acting outside the First One's directives if that's exactly what they were intended to do?

I think we're getting overly semantic. Being neutral to the cosmology & being a "combination of all 6 forces" is functionally the exact same thing.

Because she planted a tree that Elune gave her? And to Aman'Thul, Life's influence is seen as chaotic by nature? It's funny he did this though, considering Eonar's entire shtick is that she's the caretaker of life in the universe. Like, she's quite literally the one responsible for ordering it. So unless Eonar wasn't doing her job correctly, Aman'Thul was being strict for no reason.

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Also, what do you mean "it's the nothingness that predates everything"? Not even Chronicle's Mythos depicts the Dark Beyond as such lmaooo.

[Ersula]

Also, what do you mean "it's the nothingness that predates everything"? Not even Chronicle's Mythos depicts the Dark Beyond as such lmaooo.

Just stop with your weird, radical flavors of nothingness. Nothingness is nothingness. That's what space is. Space isn't a substance.

[Joshuaj]

Just stop with your weird, radical flavors of nothingness. Nothingness is nothingness. That's what space is. Space isn't a substance.

All those planets, stars, galaxies, black holes, quasars, celestial beings, etc suggest otherwise to me.

The Dark Beyond ain't the Void.

[Joshuaj]

Heck, the idea of there being "vacant space" goes against your entire premise, since there being space means there's no "nothingness" involved. Nothingness needs to have absolutely no sense of space whatsoever, as there's nothing in general.

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Well aaakshually... space is also a bunch of dark matter and dark energy.

Sure. What's your point here?

Like, seriously, what are you and Ersula trying to prove?

[Ersula]

Heck, the idea of there being "vacant space" goes against your entire premise, since there being space means there's no "nothingness" involved. Nothingness needs to have absolutely no sense of space whatsoever, as there's nothing in general.

Distance only exists in relation to other objects. Vacant space is nothingness.

[Enrif]

Anyway, on the topic of Midnight, what do you guys hope we'll see for Hero Talents?

I bet each class get at least one new Hero Talent Specialisation.

Hunter will probably get Ranger, because of Quel'thalas and everything. I envision this as something with lots of emphasis on being agile and stealthy out in nature. Blending in with your surroundings and moving efficiently through the wilds.

Warrior should get Blademaster, ripped straight from WC3. Agility, stealth, mirror images, and a sort of Samurai vibe. Big crits, probably? Maybe Berserker instead, to draw inspiration from the Forest Trolls. Dual-wielding one-handed weapons etc.


Priest ought to get some type of Inquisitor. Smiting your enemies with holy magic.


Druid might pick something up from the Haranir, or perhaps go into Drust or Witchcraft.

Blademaster will never work for warrior. Agility and being lightly arrmored are not in their kit.

As for what hero talents, i think they should get hero talents that are core to their class. For example, Marksman has to be either be a wannabe Sylvanas, or a wannabe Tyrande.

Each class should get a hero talent, that can be used by each spec, that focuses on the core of the class without changing the core appearance of it, or building the core appearance out.

[Lady Atia]

Anyway, on the topic of Midnight, what do you guys hope we'll see for Hero Talents?

I bet each class gets at least one or two new Hero Talent Specialisations.

Hunter will probably get Ranger, because of Quel'thalas and everything. I envision this as something with lots of emphasis on being agile and stealthy out in nature. Blending in with your surroundings and moving efficiently through the wilds.

Warrior should get Blademaster, ripped straight from WC3. Agility, stealth, mirror images, and a sort of Samurai vibe. Big crits, probably? Maybe Berserker instead, to draw inspiration from the Forest Trolls. Dual-wielding one-handed weapons etc.

Priest or Paladin ought to get some type of Inquisitor. Smiting your enemies with holy magic.

Druid might pick something up from the Haranir, or perhaps go into Drust or Witchcraft.

Blademaster is basically just a skin for monk, especially now that we have the glyph to actually use our weapons.

Also I doubt we will get new hero specs, but rather just new points for the ones we already have instead.

[Merryck]

Hero Talents were a mistake. They should've just been cosmetic.

[Ersula]

Also I doubt we will get new hero specs, but rather just new points for the ones we already have instead.

It would be strange if they designed this whole system just to end the number of choices with 2. There's a decent chance they add more talents to the existing ones, but that seems antithetical to the design philosophy. They did Hero Talents to avoid borrowed power. More talent tiers is "Vertical Progression." More Hero Tree choices is "Horizontal Progression." Vertical Progression is borrowed power because they're eventually going to need to get rid of it. But they don't have to do that for Horizontal Progression.

Either way they're going to revaluate the Talent system again when they do the level squish at the end of the saga. So in 14.0 this current talent system will either succeed & continue into the future. Or it'll be considered a failure & be redesigned & replaced.

Assuming they don't throw Hero Talent Trees in the Trash I image them adding 2 more hero trees per class during the rest of this saga, then doing something like Artifact Weapons 2.0 in the saga afterwards, then the saga after that hero tree talents double in length before being squashed with another level squish in the saga after that. And example:

11.0 - Max Level 80 - Hero Talents
12.0 - 90 - 1 new hero talent choice per class (not per spec)
13.0 - 100 - 1 new hero talent choice per spec (2 for druids so each spec now has 3 options)
14.0 - 60 -New Artifact Weapons
15.0 - 70 - Artifact Weapons advance getting new talents
16.0 - 80 - Artifacts advance again
17.0 - 90 - Hero Talent trees double in size (incorporating lost Artifact weapon skills)
18.0 - 100 - Another new Hero talent three choice

Hero Talents were a mistake. They should've just been cosmetic.

I like hero talents. When things are purely cosmetic, it makes people stop playing. The wildest thing about cosmetic items is the effort people will put into getting them, then immediately stop playing the game.

All those planets, stars, galaxies, black holes, quasars, celestial beings, etc suggest otherwise to me.

The Dark Beyond ain't the Void.

I think I already clarified that. You're making a typical astrological error. The things in space isn't space. A planet is in space. As well as in this setting the "Great Dark Beyond" isn't the same thing as "The void". The Void is not space either, otherwise they wouldn't have created two completely different terms for it.

[huth]

Well aaakshually... space is also a bunch of dark matter and dark energy.

Or maybe those don't actually exist. Either way, Joshuaj is getting way to bent out of shape over literal nothing.

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I think I already clarified that. You're making a typical astrological error. The things in space isn't space. A planet is in space. As well as in this setting the "Great Dark Beyond" isn't the same thing as "The void". The Void is not space either, otherwise they wouldn't have created two completely different terms for it.

Yeah, Great Dark Beyond is just the local name for "outer space" just like they say Nether instead of Hell.

[Cheezits]

Hero Talents were a mistake. They should've just been cosmetic.

I mean they are just new talents. People thought it was class skins because of how they were marketed + Dark Ranger (and only dark ranger lol) but no, it's just talents they dressed up to look like a feature because TWW doesn't have many new features.

Class skins can still happen they'll just be called something different and there will obviously be a Dark Ranger/Sylvanas class skin for hunters regardless of what the hero talent row is called.

[Joshuaj]

Distance only exists in relation to other objects. Vacant space is nothingness.

You can have infinite space. Vacant space just means there's nothing within the space. However, that in of itself is still space.

Nothingness is nothingness. The Void Realm can exist, but it wouldn't have any space within it.

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It would be strange if they designed this whole system just to end the number of choices with 2. There's a decent chance they add more talents to the existing ones, but that seems antithetical to the design philosophy. They did Hero Talents to avoid borrowed power. More talent tiers is "Vertical Progression." More Hero Tree choices is "Horizontal Progression." Vertical Progression is borrowed power because they're eventually going to need to get rid of it. But they don't have to do that for Horizontal Progression.

Either way they're going to revaluate the Talent system again when they do the level squish at the end of the saga. So in 14.0 this current talent system will either succeed & continue into the future. Or it'll be considered a failure & be redesigned & replaced.

Assuming they don't throw Hero Talent Trees in the Trash I image them adding 2 more hero trees per class during the rest of this saga, then doing something like Artifact Weapons 2.0 in the saga afterwards, then the saga after that hero tree talents double in length before being squashed with another level squish in the saga after that. And example:

11.0 - Max Level 80 - Hero Talents
12.0 - 90 - 1 new hero talent choice per class (not per spec)
13.0 - 100 - 1 new hero talent choice per spec (2 for druids so each spec now has 3 options)
14.0 - 60 -New Artifact Weapons
15.0 - 70 - Artifact Weapons advance getting new talents
16.0 - 80 - Artifacts advance again
17.0 - 90 - Hero Talent trees double in size (incorporating lost Artifact weapon skills)
18.0 - 100 - Another new Hero talent three choice

I like hero talents. When things are purely cosmetic, it makes people stop playing. The wildest thing about cosmetic items is the effort people will put into getting them, then immediately stop playing the game.

I think I already clarified that. You're making a typical astrological error. The things in space isn't space. A planet is in space. As well as in this setting the "Great Dark Beyond" isn't the same thing as "The void". The Void is not space either, otherwise they wouldn't have created two completely different terms for it.

You're saying vacant space is nothingness, but that's not at all the case.

Again, not quite sure what you're trying to say here? Are you saying the Dark Beyond started off as empty space? Cause if so, we quite literally don't know this.

[huth]

You're saying vacant space is nothingness, but that's not at all the case.

So what exactly is a space that has nothing in it then?

[Joshuaj]

So what exactly is a space that has nothing in it then?

Vacant space. Nothing within the space. But nothing within the space =/= nothingness entire.

[Khaza-R]

Blademaster is basically just a skin for monk, especially now that we have the glyph to actually use our weapons.

Also I doubt we will get new hero specs, but rather just new points for the ones we already have instead.

I think it could fit within the monk class but it would have to be its own spec.

WW is still way too martial arts based to really fulfill the blademaster class fantasy.

[Valysar]

I hope they'll upgrade the chain lightning spell too, the new lightning bolt is pretty nice, but the CL is still very old looking

[Nightshade711]

I hope they'll upgrade the chain lightning spell too, the new lightning bolt is pretty nice, but the CL is still very old looking

Same.
It is strange to me that they updated Lightning Bolt & Lava Burst who already had recent-ish reworked visuals - but not Chain Lightning or any of the elemental shields which I’m pretty sure still have their vanilla visuals.

[Makabreska]

Same.
It is strange to me that they updated Lightning Bolt & Lava Burst who already had recent-ish reworked visuals - but not Chain Lightning or any of the elemental shields which I’m pretty sure still have their vanilla visuals.

I don't think there is any meaningful spell in the game that still has vanilla visuals, peeps just forgot how crappy they used to look:



I say current CL is fine. It still looks good, especially when you have overload procs.

[huth]

Vacant space. Nothing within the space. But nothing within the space =/= nothingness entire.

Semantics. You're not making a meaningfull point there.