The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

I would like if the extent of Xal in TLT is if Nzoth comes back (in the old Xal knife- see BFA ambiguous wrathion knife cutscene) and allies with us in Midnight to deal with her. This may be part of the reason for the Undersea and Naga buildup in DF and TWW. And in an ultimate irony loop she gets sucked BACK into the knife and has to help us do something in TLT.

Nzoth gets out of the knife and... turns into SOMETHING smaller than the huge multiplanar monster. I've been thinking of a mutual ally Nzoth for a while and he could take a lot of interesting humanish forms.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I feel like that whole thing was solely something that was happening with the context of Steve Danuser, I doubt anything will transpire involving the missing Blade or N'zoth.

Again, obviously it could still happen because it does bring some form of energy boost back to the franchise but I tend to think that it is just not going to happen. I think we leave this expansion without anything happening honestly.

But maybe they leave some clues or something to trend towards that in Nightfall/Revisiting Horrific Visions, who knows.

[Ersula]

Funny observation: Archaedas shows a map of post-Sundering Azeroth then talking about the Manifold inside the Vault of Memory, rather than a map of ancient Kalimdor.

That's not unusual. Archaedas was studying the Earthen in Uldaman since they & the Earthen of Khaz Modan emerged, and that was only about 1000 years ago.

[Ersula]

It is strange in this context, because he is talking about how they constructed the Manifold all over Azeroth, also highlighting certain points on the map where they supposedly built their installations. His information is also coming from Khaz'goroth, meaning is should be from a more or less omniscient source on this issue, and obviously well before the Titans died (which happened ages before the Sundering).

I think what we're supposed to understand is that "the manifold" is a mechanism that consists of all the titan facilities on Azeroth. Planned by the Titans but built by the Keepers over hundreds of thousands of years, so some of those were constructed after the Sundering. That is why it uses a more recent map.

The Khaz Algar Earthen don't know how to access the Manifold if the Sundering moved its access from the coreway, but due to their memory issues that doesn't mean the Keepers hadn't already built around that, fully aware the coreway cannot access the manifold at the moment.

[Joshuaj]

Not a big fan of D.R.I.V.E., seems to be a bit too fast.
Gonna be worse on "bad" computers.

As someone who's been testing the D.R.I.V.E system out, it really ain't too fast, like at all lol.

The city is a bit small for it tho, and I hope Blizzard expands on this feature in the future.

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I feel like that whole thing was solely something that was happening with the context of Steve Danuser, I doubt anything will transpire involving the missing Blade or N'zoth.

Again, obviously it could still happen because it does bring some form of energy boost back to the franchise but I tend to think that it is just not going to happen. I think we leave this expansion without anything happening honestly.

But maybe they leave some clues or something to trend towards that in Nightfall/Revisiting Horrific Visions, who knows.

You act like anything Danuser related was scrapped. Why?

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Also, nothing was planned regarding the blade and N'Zoth. That's primarily headcanon.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

You act like anything Danuser related was scrapped. Why?

Also, nothing was planned regarding the blade and N'Zoth. That's primarily headcanon.

This entire expansion in my view hinges on headcanon to at least successfully slide into Midnight. I don't really think that is going to transpire though and its going to be another "Hit the escape hatch" like Dragonflight when we hit X.2 and nothing conclusively engaging or interesting happens.

They already made the same blunder with X.1 being another B Plot black hole which leaves the A Plot in Limbo for 6 months but at least they had the self awareness to at least say that there's is something that connects this B Plot to the A Plot as the Game Director had to respond to the feedback about Xal'atath doing her best Sylvanas impression that the A Plot is still relevant in X.1.

I think the whole Dragonflight scenario where N'zoth sees us is mostly just a Danuserism, it was never supposed to be a "clue" that they would actually take it to a N'zoth redemption or any other fantasies that people were instilled by such actions.

A lot of this game at this point is just fantastical headcanoning because nothing ever happens anymore, anyways.

[Ersula]

Tbh, I just think Blizzard took the easy route since not a lot of people think about Ancient Kalimdor. When they see Azeroth, they expect Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms.

Brinthe makes it pretty clear things stopped working for them during the Sundering, and AFAIK 'The Old Gods and the Ordering of Azeroth' makes it pretty clear the Titanforged finished their work a very long time ago. "As twilight fell on the final day of their labors, the Titans named the continent Kalimdor: "land of eternal starlight."

10,000 years ago can be "a very long time ago" but so can 100. As well as whatever Tyr instructed Archaedes to be doing in Uldaman was delayed by having to put those Earthen laborers in stasis to avoid the curse of flesh.

Also that quote just doesn't make sense because Tyrande was calling the region Kalimdor in the War of the Ancients book but that was long before it actually became a continent. Kalimdor is literally an elf word, the Titans naming it makes zero sense. In fact, I assume that plays into the Keepers propaganda ala Odyn's directive: The Keepers attributing things to the Titans that had nothing to do with them, which Odyn instructed his underlings to do directly.

[milkmustache]

Mmm, I hadn't really thought of Uldaz in a while, whatever that ends up being. It was a particular choice to have the Shadowguard all over Ulduar in the TWW prequel questline. I suppose they aren't just Xal'atath's lieutenants, but also her primary force for the more important jobs, such as taking over a Titan facility.

The gears are turning with the Ethereals and Xal rapidly, and we're just beating up groups she's deluding with false promises of power, it's inevitable that we find ourselves toe to toe with adversaries that are very well aware of their role in this fight.

If there is not only some form of major Shadowguard strike towards the heart of Azeroth, but also the reveal that they are either joined by or fully part of the Ethereum, we could very well see that as a bridge to write in the Protectorate as a playable Ethereal faction, joining up the forces of Azeroth to not only prevent the rebirth of Dimensius, but ensuring the defeat of the Ethereum who they view with the same disdain.

EDIT: Shadreen being involved with elves in some way is also a major point of interest.

[Cheezits]

Yeah the second they hinted that Xal either works with or reports to Dimensius through that trading post staff, she was locked thematically to the Ethereals.

Combine that with the Ethereals popping up every patch in TWW, and the new "male/female" models that aren't specifically void corrupted, they will likely be the most focused-on Void-tied race in Midnight and likely the new playable race in Midnight. This also lines up with Midnight being heavily TBC themed (Quelthalas, Ethereals, Dimensius, possibly the flying? Draenei city).

Sorry Naga. Better luck next saga. (And I fully expect a triple whammy of Ascended Nerubians, Vrykul and MAYBE Tuskarr in TLT. Definitely Vrykul though.)

Though Earthen/Haronir, Ethereal/Naga and then Ascended/Vrykul would be great.

[Joshuaj]

Actually, what's interesting is that with Ink Ribbons, Typewriters are a product of mass production. The Goblin are technologically advanced but live in a world without mass production. Everything has to be made by hand. Ergo, a world with cars & appliances but not typewriters or plastics.

Guess the Goblins and Gnomes have to start taking from the AU Orcs and Titanforged LMAOOO

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Both utilize mass production just fine.

[milkmustache]

Sorry Naga. Better luck next saga. (And I fully expect a triple whammy of Ascended Nerubians, Vrykul and MAYBE Tuskarr in TLT. Definitely Vrykul though.)

Though Earthen/Haronir, Ethereal/Naga and then Ascended/Vrykul would be great.

Whatever threat the Naga emerge to pose, I don't think it'll be fully Xal'atath aligned. I think Azshara has and always will have her own agenda, and I know she'll be damned to allow Azeroth succumb to the Void simply because she views it as hers to rule. I don't know if they'll have a direct plot in Midnight, but they will at some point in this Saga. Perhaps she's of the same opinion as Iridikron and is looking to kill a Titan or two to gain dominance.

I'd love to see some form of Void aligned Vrykul, but I don't think the Void will have that much sway in TLT, nor do I think they'd retread the Tideskorn in Legion. I don't particularly see the Vyrkul being a people who see eye to eye with the principles of the Void... I think the Tideskorn's bargain with the Legion was in the name of conquering, but I can't see that overlap with the Void. I just don't think it has anything to offer them.

Perhaps Iridikron does. Beings that were once Titanforged who have created their own cultures after gaining the Curse of Flesh. Sure, the Titans made them, but they really seem to be following the "free will" thread that had some relevance in Shadowlands and DF, and seems to be the whole question around Azeroth (the worldsoul).

[Cheezits]

I'd love to see some form of Void aligned Vrykul, but I don't think the Void will have that much sway in TLT, nor do I think they'd retread the Tideskorn in Legion. I don't particularly see the Vyrkul being a people who see eye to eye with the principles of the Void... I think the Tideskorn's bargain with the Legion was in the name of conquering, but I can't see that overlap with the Void. I just don't think it has anything to offer them.

The reason I brought up the Vrykul is because I think they are by and large going to be one of the huge focuses of TLT zonewise, maybe the dominant race on Northrend.

The Nerubian storyline will probably continue but they won't focus too much as it would be too similar to TWW, unless it's about Ascended joining the factions. Dragon/Dracthyr storyline will continue due to characters and important Aspect places in Northrend. Drakkari will surely get a fair shake but after a (likely) big Troll zone in midnight I also think they'll not focus on them too much. That leaves the Vrykul, Storm Giants, Furbolg, Wolverineguys, Tuskarr and Oracles, and I think only the Vrykul and Storm Giants will really get fleshed out as the others are fairly simplistic races.

People have wanted Vrykul forever to the point they got mad that Kul Tiran half-breeds came first. I can only assume that Vrykul will be one of the biggest focal points of TLT not only because of their immediate ties to the Titans (and Odyn, who will probably be an antagonist) but because they are one of the only races that a direct repeat of DF or an earlier Saga expansion. So they will probably get a model rehaul as well as a somewhat smaller version that is made with player race in mind. Maybe that one castle is made into a big Vrykul city?

Honestly we may see OG Mechagnomes too. At least that is what that trading post hammer is implying. I would also love to see the Kyrian come back for both Vrykul and Northrend related shenanigans but I would be SHOCKED. Some kind of shocktrooper force sent by Pelagos to ICC to help us (probably including Sylvanas) would be cool.

[production]

A little silly theory, then:

• Five Old Gods arrived on Azeroth to corrupt it.
• Five Naaru were sent by Elune to protect it from the Void. One for each Old God. The Beledar and its Naaru arrived nearby Xal'atath underneath what is today known as Khaz Algar, while the others were sent to other locations around Azeroth.
• Four of the five Naaru were corrupted and fell to darkness, leaving only the one inside the Beledar.
• Xal'atath, the 5th Old God, eventually gained control of the Beledar, but was abruptly slain by her brothers. For now, the Naaru inside the Beledar was safe.
• The Titans arrived and locked everything down. Worldsoul, Old Gods, and everything. The Titanforged did encounter the Beledar when constructing the Coreway, but everything was just covered up and left alone.
• Xal'atath, her essence preserved inside the Black Blade of the Empire, eventually made her way to the surface from below the sea. The Sundering helped, as that shifted the landscape around.
• Now, Xal'atath is intent on turning the Beledar to the darkness again, thus allowing her to awaken herself (resurrect).

I think (if they stick the landing) they need to synthesize the void whispers/light lore/"Titans don't want to share" concepts like you're saying. I'm hoping each expansion pulls off something playing on that existing lore that we can call a "twist," without feeling like it's just as much a retcon. I have some alternates in the same vein:

The five lights and the Old Gods are the same entities, and something we "know" isn't exactly right. i.e. the Old Gods spent some time as the super-naaru who taught about the Light. They arrived in light-mode and the titans injured them trying to rip them out and lied about it, or they were still originally parasite asteroids but Elune or some other force flipped them for some time.

Regarding the crystals, do we know they're all light/void? We know (or think we know) they come out of the worldsoul itself, but are they representations of Azeroth directly or is Beledar more of a cyst containing excess light/void Azeroth rejected? Are there life/death and order/chaos crystals? The game has shown Azeroth empower allies to resist order and void, and be wounded by chaos and death, so is Beledar an indication that light has been a problem in the past? And then for the last force, Aggramar fought unchecked life on Draenor, and Aman'Thul was enraged by the first world tree on Azeroth, but has Azeroth herself resisted excessive life?

[Hitei]

Not sure I can think of a more unappealing content decision than adding a third, even less visually distinct human variation race two expansions after adding a third dwarf race.

High Elves and Forest trolls would be pretty up there though.

[Khaza-R]

Not sure I can think of a more unappealing content decision than adding a third, even less visually distinct human variation race two expansions after adding a third dwarf race.

High Elves and Forest trolls would be pretty up there though.

As much I love more diverse options like Ogres, Arrakoa, Nerubians, etc. Its clear most people play human or human adjacent characters. Vyrkul are a popular choice. There's no diminishing that. They're pretty much guaranteed to be the TLT new race

[Al Gorefiend]

If you guys want a popular race make it attractive.

If you guys want an ugly/animal race don't expect it to be popular

[Ersula]

If you guys want a popular race make it attractive.

If you guys want an ugly/animal race don't expect it to be popular

Oddly enough, playable races are mostly afterthoughts at this point. Drakthyr were made to facilitate their ideas for Evoker, but for the most part a race becomes playable if they've already decided to populate a major content location with that race as npcs. If they were going to populate a the whole expansion with Earthen they'd need a lot of customization options, while Gnolls & Tuskaar, not so much.

Personally I don't want Farronir. I think the Ascended Nerubians would be better, plus they would be the first invertebrate race.

[Hitei]

As much I love more diverse options like Ogres, Arrakoa, Nerubians, etc. Its clear most people play human or human adjacent characters. Vyrkul are a popular choice. There's no diminishing that. They're pretty much guaranteed to be the TLT new race

That seems like a pretty baseless assumption. Vrykul aren't that popular, and people don't want to play "ugly" humanoids (see: Orcs, Kul Tiran, Dwarves), they want to play pretty ones like Elves.

There have also been more popular, more logical additions that were not added (see: Ogres in WoD and BfA, the covenant races in SL). So I dunno why you'd take it as guaranteed.

[Khaza-R]

That seems like a pretty baseless assumption. Vrykul aren't that popular, and people don't want to play "ugly" humanoids (see: Orcs, Kul Tiran, Dwarves), they want to play pretty ones like Elves.

There have also been more popular, more logical additions that were not added (see: Ogres in WoD and BfA, the covenant races in SL). So I dunno why you'd take it as guaranteed.

Baseless but uses their own opinion as fact. Hilarious as always.

Regardless of your or my own feelings, Vyrkul as the primary indigenous race of Northrend. They also were previously framed as being villians which Blizzard loves to revision. So yes, they will undoubtedly be an AR if the feature is meant to continue beyond TWW.

[Jolly Roger]

just give me tortollan
i dont care that back pieces wont work
i need my ninja turtles