The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Enrif]

Doesn't really help explain how the zones fit together thematically though. What zone storyline are you telling when part is in Zul'drak and the rest in Storm Peaks?

Stormpeaks is the likely place to house big titan machines in northrend. I imagine it could break the stormpeaks and have it crumble towards Zuldrak. In this revealing titan machines, but also troll ruins. It could even be a combo titan-troll dungeon in there.

[Jaggler]

I don't know, Northrend often has adjacent zones that just don't look similar and don't flow well into each other. What are you pairing Sholazar with? Is Grizzly Hills going with Zul'Drak or with Howling Fjord? (and if the latter, what would you ever pair the other zone with then?) What happens to Crystalsong? I think unlike Kalimdor and EK where I could very easily group zones in groups of 2-4 and make a megazone, Northrend (and Outland to be fair) has harsh thematic differences between zones

Current zones also have rather big aesthetic differences. Azure span goes from the Decay infested West over Grizzly Hills 2.0 to the snow and ice covered east. Waking Shores united erupting volcanoes and overflowing life.

You can have the Sholazar go wild with the Life forces rampaging into the Borean Tundra or the glacier from Icecrown consuming large parts of the zone. You can have Zul'Drak being (re)setteled by Zandalari restoring it's glory and merging it with Storm Peaks to create a new Troll civilization at the foothills of the Peaks. Howling Fjord and Grizzly Hills are already flowing into each other very well, which leaves combining Icecrown and Dragonblight: Both rather desolate zones with a few points of resistance against the scourge which could be expanded.

[Golden Yak]

Upon consideration, here's some thoughts:

Northrend TLT

-Season 1-
Borean Expanse (Borean Tundra + Sholazar)
-Sholazar Titan Facility - The true purpose of the Basin's place in the Titan Manifold
-Fractured Nexus - The Titans shatter the blue dragonflight Nexus, causing arcane havoc

Howling Hills (Howling Fjord + Grizzly Hills)
-Utgarde Catacombs - The halls below Utgarde Keep, full of Titan-sworn vrykul
-Vordrassil's Roots - The depths of Yogg-Saron's corruption is revealed

Icecrown Blight (Icecrown + Dragonblight)
-Ruins of Naxxramas - The Scourge still haunt the fallen remnants of the Necropolis
-Citadel Soul Engines - The Titans assess the damage caused by the Jailer's ambitions
---Iridikron's Lair - Raid. Iridikron makes his move, but should the heroes stop him or help him...?

Storm Peaks (Storm Peaks + Zul'Drak)
-Halls of Fire - The volcanic source of Ulduar's power, part of the newly revealed Ulduar substructures
-Halls of Horror - A prison containing the servants of the Old Gods, part of the newly revealed Ulduar substructures

-Season 2-
Northrend Underworld - The region that lies below Northrend's surface
-Azjol-Nerub - The true Spider Kingdom is on the verge of rebirth
---Ulduar Manifold Complex - Raid. The very heart of the Titan Manifold that cages the Worldsoul

-Season 3-
Worldsoul Memory - A realm within the Worldsoul, formed from the memories of Azeroth
-Seat of the Pantheon - Sargeras is free, but his prison may hold clues to stopping him
---Worldsoul Core - Raid. The Worldsoul strives to be free of any who would shackle her

------------

I don't see them doing an underground expansion again, but I do think its possible we could be going underneath Northrend instead. Azj'ol Nerub and lots of Manifold zones could be possible. There is a very small part of me that thinks the expansion intro alone will be in Northrend, and we lift a section of Ulduar into the air akin to Odin as a home city after the intro cinematic, in order to go somewhere else to find a possible "Last Titan" elsewhere in the world. However I do think that is very very unlikely. I doubt they'd drop returning to Northrend and then not truly return.

Goddamn, the thought of the Titans throwing a switch and then huge chunks of Storm Peaks basically break apart and float into the air is hot. I would love to see that, get us real vertical. Get us flying all around there. Probably not flying off to another place or where our city is gonna be (I don't think the Titans are going to be our friends) but that would be a great overhaul of the Storm Peaks, ripping it apart into a bunch of floating islands with Ulduar as some colossal Titan fortress.

If Northrend get's updated, I think it's a given, that dungeons/raids would get that treatment as well. You have lots of spaces you could explore. Coldarra, Iridikron's old lair. Whatever Titan machinery/halls lie under Ulduar and the Storm Peaks. Vrykul and scourged Drakkari remnants, Scourge remnants, Nerubians. They don't have to align with the old dungeons of WotLK at all.

I see them as needing mostly new stuff, with maybe revisiting old concepts. Like having Titan facilities beneath Utgarde Keep where vrykul were originally produced. An old WotLK quest has mention of a 'Stoneforge' that I don't think was ever found - the one in Ulduar was called the Forge of Wills.

They may revamp one or two of the old dungeons, but i don't think they will touch upon all of them.

Of the old dungeons, i think Halls of Stone will be the most important, especially with its forge of wills. After that, perhaps one of the Troll Dungeons. The remaining six will likely be new ones.

We can also compare that to TBC and WoD which had only one dungeon in common, Auchindoun, and even than, they are very very different.

As for Quel'Thalas, all new dungeon. I don't think they will make Zul'aman a dungeon for the third time, Magisters Terrace could be fair game for a dungeon though. The rest would be all new. Deathholme could easily work as a dungeon too.

I think Zul'Aman will be an entire zone, with a raid there that evokes the original raid/dungeon, but delves more deeply into the structures beneath the city (there's a faceless one down there). Agree on Deatholme and Magister's Terrace.

[Enrif]

I think Zul'Aman will be an entire zone, with a raid there that evokes the original raid/dungeon, but delves more deeply into the structures beneath the city (there's a faceless one down there). Agree on Deatholme and Magister's Terrace.

Well, Delves could be used for that, mostly troll focused?

[Eldryth]

Well, Delves could be used for that, mostly troll focused?

Not sure there should really be much actual Troll presence left in Northrend at this point (assuming no retcons), they were pretty much wiped out during Wrath. Iirc BFA had the last surviving Drakkari just sitting in Dazar'alor.

[Golden Yak]

Well, Delves could be used for that, mostly troll focused?

Hah, didn't even mean it that way. But I still think a big instance for Zul'Aman will feature, the faceless one buried there is Kith'ix, and is a fairly important lorewise - one of the two faceless who hunted down and killed Tyr, and later founded Azj'Aqir, before being slain and buried beneath ZA. With all the Void influence going on in the area he's bound to be revived.

I imagine there'll be delves aplenty in both expansions.

[Lady Atia]

Not sure there should really be much actual Troll presence left in Northrend at this point (assuming no retcons), they were pretty much wiped out during Wrath. Iirc BFA had the last surviving Drakkari just sitting in Dazar'alor.

There city would still be there, and it would be kinda weird if we helped the Amani in Midnight but ignore the Drakkari, especially as we already tried to help their loas back there in wotlk. Rebuilding the Troll Empires could be a multi Expansion side arc, especially if we get the EK rework after the world soul saga that brings back Hakkar and the Gurubashi.

[Enrif]

Not sure there should really be much actual Troll presence left in Northrend at this point (assuming no retcons), they were pretty much wiped out during Wrath. Iirc BFA had the last surviving Drakkari just sitting in Dazar'alor.

that was about Quel'thalas. But troll delves, at least one can make sense for Northrend too

[allegrian]

Man, that datamined stuff about Kirin Tor / Dalaran sucks so much. They keep just removing interesting fantasy places from azeroth and replacing it with nothing or worse versions of the original stuff. A flying wizard city was cool and iconic and now we have to see the kirin tor just as a bunch of nomad scholars? Build a Hogwarts-style academy for them at least!

And what's all that bullshit about kirin tor's mistakes and being too prideful? Oh, I guess they were not bland anough like most new characters and factions, so they have to be removed, just like Genn, Tyrande, Malfurion, Wrathion...

Seriously blizzard.

[Sondrelk]

There city would still be there, and it would be kinda weird if we helped the Amani in Midnight but ignore the Drakkari, especially as we already tried to help their loas back there in wotlk. Rebuilding the Troll Empires could be a multi Expansion side arc, especially if we get the EK rework after the world soul saga that brings back Hakkar and the Gurubashi.

We don't even really need the Drakkari at all, just some trolls who are interested in Gundrak. You could make it a hostile faction, friendly faction, or both.

Generally I think a lot of former dungeons from WotLK would make sense as Delves more than anything. It would be neat to have as a dungeon of course, but if you make it a Delve you can have several enemy types, different useage of the layouts. And then have any potential Troll dungeons somewhere else, like in the actual main building of Gundrak where the giant snake presumably is.

[Enrif]

We don't even really need the Drakkari at all, just some trolls who are interested in Gundrak. You could make it a hostile faction, friendly faction, or both.

Generally I think a lot of former dungeons from WotLK would make sense as Delves more than anything. It would be neat to have as a dungeon of course, but if you make it a Delve you can have several enemy types, different useage of the layouts. And then have any potential Troll dungeons somewhere else, like in the actual main building of Gundrak where the giant snake presumably is.

Oh, i like that thought. Revisiting a old dungeon as a delve. This could show the aftermaths and stories there nicely, without the need to redesign the old dungeons to fit the M+ designs.

[Sondrelk]

Man, that datamined stuff about Kirin Tor / Dalaran sucks so much. They keep just removing interesting fantasy places from azeroth and replacing it with nothing or worse versions of the original stuff. A flying wizard city was cool and iconic and now we have to see the kirin tor just as a bunch of nomad scholars? Build a Hogwarts-style academy for them at least!

And what's all that bullshit about kirin tor's mistakes and being too prideful? Oh, I guess they were not bland anough like most new characters and factions, so they have to be removed, just like Genn, Tyrande, Malfurion, Wrathion...

Seriously blizzard.

The whole deal with Dalaran only really makes sense to me if you assume it's there to preemptively explain why we don't get Dalaran as a city in Midnight or TLT, as both are perfect candidates for it. (Midnight for potentially including Hillsbrad where Dalaran is originally from, and TLT for the WotLK nostalgia.)

Honestly the explanation seems like it's working backwards from just having all the mages be slightly more prominent in each individual city, rather than having one large city of them all together.

[allegrian]

The whole deal with Dalaran only really makes sense to me if you assume it's there to preemptively explain why we don't get Dalaran as a city in Midnight or TLT, as both are perfect candidates for it. (Midnight for potentially including Hillsbrad where Dalaran is originally from, and TLT for the WotLK nostalgia.)

Honestly the explanation seems like it's working backwards from just having all the mages be slightly more prominent in each individual city, rather than having one large city of them all together.

But it's super lame. It's like the horde leaving orgrimmar to just be nomads and show the way of the horde in other cities.

Dalaran was a kingdom of mages, they had their own terrotiry, capital and culture. Why do they keep making the world smaller and les magical or interesting? We also lost a big city and society living on a magical tree and it got replaced with a smaller tree with some small wooden buildings next to it.

[Lady Atia]

The whole deal with Dalaran only really makes sense to me if you assume it's there to preemptively explain why we don't get Dalaran as a city in Midnight or TLT, as both are perfect candidates for it. (Midnight for potentially including Hillsbrad where Dalaran is originally from, and TLT for the WotLK nostalgia.)

Honestly the explanation seems like it's working backwards from just having all the mages be slightly more prominent in each individual city, rather than having one large city of them all together.

Midnight is still only QT, you won't get Hillsbrad or anything else. And they said the Kirin Tor quests are the start of an arc. Maybe the whole point is to realize we need a Dalaran again after the WSS so they can rebuild it after it (and have an excuse why they just didn't rebuild it in Northrend while the whole Titans Incidend was going down).

[Sondrelk]

Midnight is still only QT, you won't get Hillsbrad or anything else. And they said the Kirin Tor quests are the start of an arc. Maybe the whole point is to realize we need a Dalaran again after the WSS so they can rebuild it after it (and have an excuse why they just didn't rebuild it in Northrend while the whole Titans Incidend was going down).

Why do you assume Midnight will only be QT, and not the rest of northern EK? That would be like assuming TLT will only be Storm Peaks stretched to accomodate a entire expansion, rather than a full Northrend revamp.
There is so much stuff in northern EK that ties into the Blood Elf stuff. So no reason to assume it won't be used when it's the perfect size for an expansion. Has a convenient cutoff point. There is buildup to content there with the Heartlands novella. And there is a massive amount of untapped nostalgia that could come from there.

[Worldshaper]

I bet they're purging stuff they figured wouldn't fit or would be too hard to remake in the gradual world revamp.

In WoW 2.0, they want Nordrassil to be their primary world tree. Teldrassil was muddling the waters by existing right next to it, and supposedly being large enough to contain a city.

Undercity made way for a rebuilt human kingdom.

Dalaran was too messy existing in several versions and in the sky.

Hell, Quel'thalas isn't even in the same instance as the rest of the world. Needs an invasion!

Step 1A. Demolition crew moves in to take care of some inconvenient legacy stuff.

Step 1B. New assets stealthily added over several years.

Step 2. Revamp EK and KA.

[Lady Atia]

Why do you assume Midnight will only be QT, and not the rest of northern EK? That would be like assuming TLT will only be Storm Peaks stretched to accomodate a entire expansion, rather than a full Northrend revamp.
There is so much stuff in northern EK that ties into the Blood Elf stuff. So no reason to assume it won't be used when it's the perfect size for an expansion. Has a convenient cutoff point. There is buildup to content there with the Heartlands novella. And there is a massive amount of untapped nostalgia that could come from there.

Because Metzen said the Expansions will be on QT and Northrend, not QT and Stormpeaks ...

And I want a dragon isles sized QT, not some tiny shit. QT has enough stuff for a whole expansion, it doesn't need the help of Lordaeron (which again, can ALSO carry it's own revamp expansion without the need of QT).

[Enrif]

Because Metzen said the Expansions will be on QT and Northrend, not QT and Stormpeaks ...

This. People who go for all of EK for Midnight will be highly disappointed if they keep that as their baseline assumption for Midnight. We should take what was announced: Quel'thalas and Northrend. Anything beyond that would be a nice surprise, but should not be expected.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I hope they merge the zones of Eversong Woods and Ghostlands together and just make it one zone: Quel'Thalas. Same with the Isle of Quel'Danas. Seems like the perfect opportunity to do so.

[Sondrelk]

Because Metzen said the Expansions will be on QT and Northrend, not QT and Stormpeaks ...

And I want a dragon isles sized QT, not some tiny shit. QT has enough stuff for a whole expansion, it doesn't need the help of Lordaeron (which again, can ALSO carry it's own revamp expansion without the need of QT).

Or he said it would be in Quel'thalas because that is the salient bit, and saying "Quel'thalas dealing with Elf stuff" is more concise and easy to understand compared to "Northern part of EK, with the cutoff of Thandol Span, dealing with Elf issues".

If we are going to start listing every idea as something deserving its own expansion then nothing will ever get done.
Dealing with Lordaeron stuff now also makes sense for the future as we should probably do all of that before Avaloren, which seems likely for the expansion after TLT.

All the themes present in Eversong and Ghostlands already exist in Northern EK anyways. So if we already accept that the Ghostlands will exist with Scourge themes to have a bit of variety, then it's just silly to assume we wouldnt go to the Plaguelands, as that also has Scourge themes. As well as Stratholme and general Classic nostalgia, which players will want.

- - - Updated - - -

This. People who go for all of EK for Midnight will be highly disappointed if they keep that as their baseline assumption for Midnight. We should take what was announced: Quel'thalas and Northrend. Anything beyond that would be a nice surprise, but should not be expected.

Assuming just Quel'thalas comes with its own set of inherent expectations though. For one you would have to assume the zones will be massively scaled up in a way that would make it incongrous with the rest of EK. And assuming they do this with the expectation that they will do the same to the remaining zones in EK is even more absurd.
They would have to add loads of extra contnt to Quel'thalas just to have enough variety to fit the an entire expansion. Not to mention scaling up Silvermoon to it's own zone most likely, which also seems unlikely.

Assuming Midnight revamps the zones north of the Thandol Span makes far more logical sense. It's almost exactly the size of the Dragon Isles, and has loads of thematic relevance to Quel'thalas, as well as future plot points like the Arathi Empire, the void, and other stuff like the Amani.