The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[CasualFilth]

I'm 1million% in for a world revamp BUT I truly want NEW zones for a new expansion.

[Ersula]

I'm 1million% in for a world revamp BUT I truly want NEW zones for a new expansion.

But if an old zone were completely updated full of new buildings, creatures & activities, what would be the difference.

What I want them to fix is making so many patch zones that become irrelevant both during & after the expansion because their content is so short-lived & skipped over even during Chromie Time.

[Worldshaper]

I think SL was more-so a lesson on not going full cosmic without proper build up (cause, let's face it, the Shadowlands as we know them NOW were not at all built up).

It's why 10.2 and the Worldsoul Saga have so much build up regarding Life (especially Elune), the Light, the Titans, and the Void.

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Heck, even Disorder's had some focus, albeit it's still Legion or Dreadlord based.

I'd argue that no matter how much Titans, Old Gods, Naaru, etc are built up, people wouldn't enjoy entire expansions set in their domains.

Final patch zones or raids, sure. But there has to be normal stuff as well.

[Pyrophax]

Still boring asf. Just like Tauren mages can be.

Quel'Thalas will be the main hub of the next expansion, so obvously the Magisters won't afk for long so I don't see your point.

Speaking about Jaina's words, she's right. The Kirin Tor must protect the Alliance. And not become a world organization for homeless orc mages.

And that is boring to me. Not everything in game bend over to Alliance. You have your time in totally Alliance expansions of Legion->TWW, things go even worse in Midnight and TLT.
So running neutral is at least acknowledging that another, bigger, half of players exist. Players who are sick from total Alliance focus of Legion->BfA-SL-TWW expansions.

[Khaza-R]

What I want them to fix is making so many patch zones that become irrelevant both during & after the expansion because their content is so short-lived & skipped over even during Chromie Time.

Brawler's Guild or DMF moving to Undermine would be a nice start.

[ChairmanKaga]

I'm 1million% in for a world revamp BUT I truly want NEW zones for a new expansion.

I think if they did a proper revamp of EK and Kal, leaving the Cata verisons as bronze dragon/time-whimey accessible, new Zones could be rolled out over the course of the expac like Dragonflight's Forbidden Reach/Zarelak/Emerald Dream or the upcoming Undermine/Siren Isle etc.

[Joshuaj]

I'd argue that no matter how much Titans, Old Gods, Naaru, etc are built up, people wouldn't enjoy entire expansions set in their domains.

Final patch zones or raids, sure. But there has to be normal stuff as well.

All depends on balancing out the cosmic stuff from the grounded stuff, and it also depends on what people prefer. Me, personally, I'm a sucker for cosmic stuff, and I'd love to see more cosmic realms in WoW as expansions. However, I can see why many others wouldn't want these expac themes.

But due to WoWs age, and due to all the cosmic stuff that's being built up, there aren't many non-cosmic related stories to tell for expansions, both grounded on Azeroth and otherwise.

[Kellorion]

if Green on Roadmap IS for Legion Remix, then i hope finally for new DH's

Orc
Mag'har
Draenei
Void Elf
Nightborne

[The-Shan]

I'm 1million% in for a world revamp BUT I truly want NEW zones for a new expansion.

honestly I don't really care for new zones just for the sake of them being new, there is something to be said about the world becoming too bloated, when they can revisit older areas we know and love and have interesting things occur there, I like that eastern kingdoms kalimdor and Northrend could be central places to the plot again instead of throw-away continent #11

[Nymrohd]

I'm OK with revamped zones but if all I got was revamped zones, I'd expect a WoD level revamp, not a BfA Arathi Highlands revamp.

[elbleuet]

And that is boring to me. Not everything in game bend over to Alliance. You have your time in totally Alliance expansions of Legion->TWW, things go even worse in Midnight and TLT.
So running neutral is at least acknowledging that another, bigger, half of players exist. Players who are sick from total Alliance focus of Legion->BfA-SL-TWW expansions.

So you're sick from Alliance expansions but ready to follow an Alliance leaning faction with Alliance background mainly composed of Alliance races ?

What's the logic behind this ?

Btw I totally get you and I sincerely hope Midnight, which is happening in a Horde territory will be a Horde expansion.

But please, stop this neutral nonsense. It's like I asked for neutral Magisters. The Magisters are interesting because it's blood elf and because it's Horde. Same for the Kirin Tor and the Alliance.

[Golden Yak]

I don't know about it being a 'Horde' expansion. I don't really think of expansions as being one faction or the other centric, and it is in Horde territory, but there's plenty of Alliance-aligned factions involved.

If it's all about the elven races, then...

High Elves - Alliance
Night Elves - Alliance
Blood Elves - Horde
Nightborn - Horde
Void Elves - Alliance
Naga - Hostile
Arathi Empire - Neutral

These are the elven related groups I see having a major role. Arathi might seem a stretch, but they are of high elven descent as well as human, so Quel'thalas is their homeland too. And there probably aren't that many high elves left, but this would be the xpac to finally explore what they're currently up to.

[Sondrelk]

I don't know about it being a 'Horde' expansion. I don't really think of expansions as being one faction or the other centric, and it is in Horde territory, but there's plenty of Alliance-aligned factions involved.

If it's all about the elven races, then...

High Elves - Alliance
Night Elves - Alliance
Blood Elves - Horde
Nightborn - Horde
Void Elves - Alliance
Naga - Hostile
Arathi Empire - Neutral

These are the elven related groups I see having a major role. Arathi might seem a stretch, but they are of high elven descent as well as human, so Quel'thalas is their homeland too. And there probably aren't that many high elves left, but this would be the xpac to finally explore what they're currently up to.

This is why one can hope for Midnight being Northern EK rather than just Quel'thalas. Three Classic Forsaken zones turned into one big one about Forsaken issues against threats like the Scarlet Crusade.
Could even have Arathi Empire proper show up and really lean into evil humans vs good undead.

[milkmustache]

I'm OK with revamped zones but if all I got was revamped zones, I'd expect a WoD level revamp, not a BfA Arathi Highlands revamp.

I mean... that's exactly what we'll get. Even further.

I'm so surprised at a lot of the turns on the revamp expansions here. A lot of people were so hyped on this idea a year ago and now we're doubting it?

I'd argue that Midnight and TLT revamps will be far more involved and expansive than WoD Outland revamps. The WoD Revamps came out 8 years after we first saw Outland. Midnight's revamp will take place 20 years after we first saw Quel'thalas, and the same for TLT and Northrend. Just look at the differences in zone design between Shadowlands and Dragonflight, and then even further now with TWW. The team is taking huge leaps in their overall zone design, I don't think there's a situation where a revamped Quel'thalas doesn't feel completely new. These zones will be expanding and will see the results of significant culture change over 20 years.

[Golden Yak]

This is why one can hope for Midnight being Northern EK rather than just Quel'thalas. Three Classic Forsaken zones turned into one big one about Forsaken issues against threats like the Scarlet Crusade.
Could even have Arathi Empire proper show up and really lean into evil humans vs good undead.

I think that it should be revamped, I just don't agree that it needs to now, or even that it should happen now.

For Midnight, the focus should be on the elven lands and the Void. The Arathi Empire forces can show up to help fight the Void and re-connect with their elven roots. There's seven elven-flavored factions in the mix, on top of whatever the Void-aligned forces and other antagonists are going to get up to - Azshara, Void Lords, trolls and their history with the elves, etc.

That's plenty of content already.

For an eastern kingdom revamp, I think they should wait until after TLT. They can have the Arathi Empire be the main antagonistic force - they help us save the world, and then dust their hands off and go "Okay! Good! We saved the world. And now... it's time for us to rule it!"

Then the focus on the next expansion/saga can be the Arathi trying to take over the Eastern Kingdoms, reclaiming their old homelands. That'll be the time to revamp them, and we can really delve into some more grounded, non-cosmic tier shit about human history, the state of undeath (Arathi have undead too) all that stuff.

[Nibelheimy]

People are exited about the Arathi Empire and that's great, but we don't need them as a footnote in an expansion. They're being set up to be a possible big bad for future saga's here.

I'm sure notable Arathi will help us during Midnight, but I'd love to see us go with a small group of Hallowfall Arathi after this saga. Only to find the God Emperor of the Arathi on Avaloren is not friendly to other races and nations at all. Has no interest in establishing trade or relationships with anybody out side of his empire.

I could see us landing on Avaloren, the Arathi who brought us back with them being executed for treason, and us being kept as prisoners/coliseum slaves for the God emperor, only to break out and make our own stand on the new continent. Especially after he realises if we can get to him, he can get to us.

[Joshuaj]

So...I played with the idea that Azeroth is the creator (I don't believe it myself personally, but I did look into the idea). Y'all wanna see what I came up with?

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I'll post a whole separate thread on it if you like, but it's based off what's expressed in the current lore, as well as recent showcases of "Zeroth" being talked about in mathematics (Like how Zeroth comes before First, etc), and how fans are connecting it to the whole "Azeroth" name (In-universe of course).

[Hitei]

But if an old zone were completely updated full of new buildings, creatures & activities, what would be the difference.

It's not really the same thing, especially for EK/Kalimdor zones which have already been reused once before.

[Nymrohd]

I mean... that's exactly what we'll get. Even further.

I'm so surprised at a lot of the turns on the revamp expansions here. A lot of people were so hyped on this idea a year ago and now we're doubting it?

I'd argue that Midnight and TLT revamps will be far more involved and expansive than WoD Outland revamps. The WoD Revamps came out 8 years after we first saw Outland. Midnight's revamp will take place 20 years after we first saw Quel'thalas, and the same for TLT and Northrend. Just look at the differences in zone design between Shadowlands and Dragonflight, and then even further now with TWW. The team is taking huge leaps in their overall zone design, I don't think there's a situation where a revamped Quel'thalas doesn't feel completely new. These zones will be expanding and will see the results of significant culture change over 20 years.

Here is the thing. Warcraft has a wack sense of scale and housing complicates matters there.

The Warcraft World is at once massive and tiny. In simple surface area, it is a massive world. Yet our speed is ever increasing making it feel small. It has so many "towns" yet many towns are 4-5 buildings. And buildings are probably the biggest issue; most houses in WoW are a single very small room with doodads that are out of scale. Warcraft buildings are not made to provide any sense of realism; they are made so they can work with a camera that doesn't know how to handle tight spaces and to feel reasonably similar for a tauren and a gnome.

Modern Warcraft zones do far better when it comes to scale. Imo the best version of WoW for this is Kul Tiras. Kul Tiras is supposed to be one of the smallest Human Kingdoms and you can find it in three zones with multiple towns. Kul Tiran towns have dozens of buildings with multiple points of interest. Compare Brennadam and Corlain with Darkshire and Lakeshire or Boralus with Stormwind; compare a house in the former with one in the latter. Compare them to Hallowfall for something more current! For Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor to be able to match the scale of modern Warcraft, you need to double or triple their surface area. You don't need to just spruce up the textures and the buildings, you need to build them from the ground up.

Can you imagine if a small house for housing in Elwynn is like one of the houses just outside Goldshire? You can barely turn the camera around in there without having clipping issues, imagine having to place furnishings. But if it is much larger so that it allows you some space to decorate, it would be out of scale with the rest of the zone.

So yes, I am very excited about Midnight and about Housing. But I am also wary of how they execute that revamp. Because by it's nature, being attached to the rest of Lordaeron, Quel'thalas cannot really be scaled up.

I know the housing system that I love, but it is in a game (ESO) with a vastly better sense of scale that is only possible because of how it is NOT really an open world like Warcraft. And I just wonder how this will work for WoW.

[Dracullus]

People are exited about the Arathi Empire and that's great, but we don't need them as a footnote in an expansion. They're being set up to be a possible big bad for future saga's here.

I'm sure notable Arathi will help us during Midnight, but I'd love to see us go with a small group of Hallowfall Arathi after this saga. Only to find the God Emperor of the Arathi on Avaloren is not friendly to other races and nations at all. Has no interest in establishing trade or relationships with anybody out side of his empire.

I could see us landing on Avaloren, the Arathi who brought us back with them being executed for treason, and us being kept as prisoners/coliseum slaves for the God emperor, only to break out and make our own stand on the new continent. Especially after he realises if we can get to him, he can get to us.

Oh yeah, I really hope that. Avaloren as random patch island would be a total waste. Now they are slowly building up this place, so when we will see it in X years, it won't be out of blue expansion.

Imo right after Last Titan we should return to OG zones (doesn't have to be this memed "total revamp expansion", Kalimdor and EK could be split between 14.0 and 15.0) and completely down to earth stories before it ramp up again with Avaloren expedition.