The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Lady Atia]

Just noticed there is a continuation quest for the Dragonscale Expedition Renown questline. Not sure whether it's showing up the reset after you complete the last step, or whether it's at Renown 25, but it gives a 2.5k rep item. So definitely go for it.

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The giant and important looking door at the end of Uldaman definitely looks too important to just ignore going forward. Surely something has to be behind it. My guess would be it's where we learn about Tyr's deception in why he chose to make Dragon Aspects, and why Order magic is being infused into all dragon eggs.

Idk, I would rather get a Tyrhold Raid rather than another wing of Uldaman. That said, my wild guesses for the titan-focused raid (or maybe mega dungeon) would be a return to Ulduar - we know Odyn wanted to go back there at the end of Legion. Especially if they have him land with the HoV there, that would be far more interesting than the other two facilities we already visited this expansion.

[Dracullus]

Yeah they have been doing great the past 6-12 months imo.

Even longer, since 9.1.5 launched we have great strike for patches. 9.2 was right after 9.1.5, Sepulcher lasted perfect 22 weeks like Nighthold or ToS and we got small 9.2.5 and bonus season.

Missing patch/tier left bad taste for SL, but now we know they were ready to launch expac in 2022, so time for 9.3 was "stolen" by 9.0 and 9.1 - both lasting ~2.5 month too long.

Just noticed there is a continuation quest for the Dragonscale Expedition Renown questline. Not sure whether it's showing up the reset after you complete the last step, or whether it's at Renown 25, but it gives a 2.5k rep item. So definitely go for it.

Maybe they give it on 25, many people will be close to 25 when they finish this questline and I think game engine set paragon cache at 0 when you hit "exalted" no matter how big is last increase. So many rep would be wasted.

[Sondrelk]

Even longer, since 9.1.5 launched we have great strike for patches. 9.2 was right after 9.1.5, Sepulcher lasted perfect 22 weeks like Nighthold or ToS and we got small 9.2.5 and bonus season.

Missing patch/tier left bad taste for SL, but now we know they were ready to launch expac in 2022, so time for 9.3 was "stolen" by 9.0 and 9.1 - both lasting ~2.5 month too long.



Maybe they give it on 25, many people will be close to 25 when they finish this questline and I think game engine set paragon cache at 0 when you hit "exalted" no matter how big is last increase. So many rep would be wasted.

I would hope so. Already lost a good few hundred rep just on being unable to give less than the maximum amount of available rep tokens.

[dirtboy]

For like the 50th time...the First Ones stuff doesn't hurt anything pre-established. At worst, it's maybe too high a concept for us to explore, but considering we've already been to a Zereth, why stop ya know? And me liking a concept doesn't make me a larper.

Why stop? Because most people disliked it.

[Kikazz]

Once again the cycle has come to an end and although the datamines are still empty of their precious ores... a rumbling can be heard within the land and across these forums.

In the grand tradition of Teldrassil is Burning©, @Shadochi I summon you! Assemble our Fellowship my old friend, it's speculating time!

Hi everyone!

In the spirit of our previous and beloved expansion speculation threads (Mists of Pandaria, Warlords of Draenor, Legion, BfA, Shadowlands, Dragonflight) and as the Dragonflight era is finally upon us, it is time for us to build a new home for our ideas, turn a new leaf... AND KEEP DIGGING! After all, what are endings if not new beginnings? Especially when you've got Bronze Dragons involved...

So get to it! Will patch 10.1 take place underground? Will we see the return of Galakrond or the fall of Nozdormu? And most importantly... will 11.0 be a world revamp?

I'm counting on your participation as always to make this thread a safe and magical space to exchange ideas, theories... and maybe a few memes left and right when the time is right.

Have fun, be creative, and most of all be respectful!

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ral-Discussion
We'll miss you little one. ♥

honestly think it will be like this.

Patch 10.1 will include a Mega Dungeon, of us fighting undertrolls/dwellers from below, and include a Raid with all 3 of the remaining Incarnates, with Iridikron being the final boss of the tier.
This will lead into Nozodormu getting corrupted by killing iridikron, as we find out he was corrupted by the old gods (this has been hinted at a LOT).


10.2 the big Hourglass in Thaldrazzus will be a raid to track Nozdormu through the timeline as he becomes murozond, with the help of Chromie, nozdormu will escape and fully become an old god corrupted Murozond, and awaken galakrond to end us off.

10.3 will be the resurrection of Galakrond and he will use decay magic to bring Alaexstraza's brother back to life (this has been hinted as well), and the help of the old god corrupted Bronze dragonflight,

which will then lead us into 11.0 with the TRUE old God Invasion with a whole old god expansion, not some shitty patch where Nzoth allegedly died but didnt (this has been hinted at as well)

[Foolicious]

which will then lead us into 11.0 with the TRUE old God Invasion with a whole old god expansion, not some shitty patch where Nzoth allegedly died but didnt (this has been hinted at as well)

I love the theory that by saving chromie we showed the old gods which of the many timelines they see comes to pass so they could prepare for it accordingly.
But lets be realistic. If there will be a true old god invasion it will end with some or all of them as raidbosses and we kill them again.

Am I the only one that thinks 11.0 is way too early for anything Void related to happen. I'd argue the Realm of Order should be next tbh...

The void has been prepared for a proper expansion since legion. When the next one drops its like eight years of preparation. I think thats more than enough.

[Lady Atia]

Why stop? Because most people disliked it.

Na, just a tiny loud minority on this forum and on youtube does - ingame I have yet to meet someone who didn't like Zereth Mortis and the Sepulcher, story / aesthetics wise, especially after Korthia/Maw.

[Lahis]

honestly think it will be like this.

Patch 10.1 will include a Mega Dungeon

No it won't.

For fuck's sake, look at the roadmap first before you star spewing speculation.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Most people also get much of the Cosmic Lore downright wrong regardless or simply are afraid of change

Explain why.

Na, just a tiny loud minority on this forum and on youtube does - ingame I have yet to meet someone who didn't like Zereth Mortis and the Sepulcher, story / aesthetics wise, especially after Korthia/Maw.

/doubt

That, and I also need to know your sample size and from where you gleaned said sample.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

For like the 50th time...the First Ones stuff doesn't hurt anything pre-established. At worst, it's maybe too high a concept for us to explore, but considering we've already been to a Zereth, why stop ya know? And me liking a concept doesn't make me a larper.

You asked why people don’t like it when you know why people don’t like it.

That’s the point.

[Nokster10]

Na, just a tiny loud minority on this forum and on youtube does - ingame I have yet to meet someone who didn't like Zereth Mortis and the Sepulcher, story / aesthetics wise, especially after Korthia/Maw.

I also haven't met someone who liked it. In fact, i have met only people who completely hate that garbage lore. Weird how small sample sizes work.

[Ersula]

I also haven't met someone who liked it. In fact, i have met only people who completely hate that garbage lore. Weird how small sample sizes work.

All the people here who obsessively demand to visit "Zereth Ordus" or "Zereth Vitae" apparently liked it. Good thing they never repeat tier content so blatantly.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

You asked why people don’t like it when you know why people don’t like it.

That’s the point.

They'd vomit if they even looked at Elder Scrolls cosmic concepts. People need to chill and calling someone a larper(Not accusing anyone specifically) really needs to reevaluate their priorities in life.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

They'd vomit if they even looked at Elder Scrolls cosmic concepts.

Primary point of difference being that Elder Scrolls' cosmology is interesting, convoluted, and subject to different interpretations, whereas Warcraft's is about as complex as categories of Pokemon.

[Nymrohd]

All the people here who obsessively demand to visit "Zereth Ordus" or "Zereth Vitae" apparently liked it. Good thing they never repeat tier content so blatantly.

Honestly I don't want to visit them but I fully expect to if that helps.

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Primary point of difference being that Elder Scrolls' cosmology is interesting, convoluted, and subject to different interpretations, whereas Warcraft's is about as complex as categories of Pokemon.

Yeah I don't see what's exciting about WoW's spreadsheet cosmology.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Yeah I don't see what's exciting about WoW's spreadsheet cosmology.

No more exciting then ES's weirdness.

[Nymrohd]

No more exciting then ES's weirdness.

To each his own I suppose. To me there is nothing organic about WoW's cosmology. It's like one of the fans with an obsession with finding patterns made it. In ES the cosmology fits the history of the world. In WoW the history of the world is being "reframed" to better fit the cosmology

[Aeluron Lightsong]

To each his own I suppose. To me there is nothing organic about WoW's cosmology. It's like one of the fans with an obsession with finding patterns made it. In ES the cosmology fits the history of the world. In WoW the history of the world is being "reframed" to better fit the cosmology

Retcons aren't a bad thing and further more I don't see people complaining about cosmic stuff cause it doesn't "fit history of the world" If anything its just cause its cosmic.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Retcons aren't a bad thing and further more I don't see people complaining about cosmic stuff cause it doesn't "fit history of the world" If anything its just cause its cosmic.

I've always liked the high-concept stuff, actually. If it were written coherently or with a dash of uniquity, I'd enjoy it quite a bit. However, what we've gotten is dull as paint and frankly would be worth about an equal degree of contemplation if only for the fact that, much unlike the current cosmology system, paint can be used to make something interesting. The Army of the Light, for instance, was an interesting addition and I like the thought of a vast, golden fleet of Draenei out there fighting the Burning Crusade in space—I think it's a great shame that they were effectively reduced to a small resistance force on Argus because it vastly diminished what they can do, and a common element in fanfiction I think up is that the Army of the Light we've seen could only be a small token force of a much greater body. In spite of constituting a very alien element, being space crusaders led by geometric angels of materialized creation, I think something of interest could be drawn from it. Similarly, the Old Gods are quite interesting to me (though I dislike the idea of the Void Lords—I'd have much preferred for the Old Gods we know to turn out to be avatars of more powerful, aphysical beings).

What I mean to say is that a higher-concept setting isn't a bad one inherently—I like the idea of exploring the highest realms of fantasy settings and seeing how everything fits together. Some claim it diminishes the more grounded elements of the setting, but I think that's equivalent to saying that knowing quantum physics or practicing advanced theology means you shouldn't also care about your 9-to-5. Because I enjoy religious philosophy and physics myself, I find it only immerses me more in a world to know about its inner workings. The issue is when said inner workings are reduced to being a vehicle for a new set of loot pinatas, or worse yet another set of quest-givers to make sad puppy eyes at the camera in cinematics. Conceptually, WoW's cosmology is already pretty iffy—segregating every facet of reality into six entities that are effectively conflated with general breeds of magic is already pretty simplistic and inflexible, but it's further exacerbated by a lack of sensible exploration. By reducing every cosmic force to equal yet ultimately unrelated (save for in connection to their direct opposites) entities, there isn't room to expand the cosmology into something more interesting, such as a process or a conflict between some loftier, more abstract concepts.

I've been pointing quite frequently to Elder Scrolls, and I will cite it again. Elder Scrolls' cosmology works for a few reasons—for one, it remains one of the more distant elements, explored through in-universe philosophy by in-universe intellectuals instead of being reduced to a vehicle for raid tiers. Even Elder Scrolls Online, which is a fairly formulaic MMO, knows how not to reduce us to fighting Sithis whilst simultaneously foreshadowing that Padomay was actually fighting a greater evil all along. The vagueness of what we know further complements this—in spite of the setting being a few months older than Warcraft as a whole, there are still people speculating about Elder Scrolls and sharing theories and their personal understanding of certain facets of the cosmology. This subjectivity fosters a sense of mystery, and allows us to know effectively all of the pieces without showing us the whole puzzle. We know about the universe on its deepest level in Elder Scrolls—here is a somewhat muddy summary of it, and here is a pretty thorough summary of it, if you're willing to tough through Kirkbride's strange language. Had subjectivity and care been injected into WoW's cosmology, it would certainly incite more excitement. Perhaps the final component is that the process by which everything comes to be in Elder Scrolls is, in spite of being communicated in a far more convoluted fashion, works as a "process". Creation in itself is a process. Conversely, there's no real reason for why the First Ones bothered to sculpt out the Cosmic Forces to order reality. There is also no real interplay between them other than what appears to be an accident.

The original Light-Void idea from Chronicles did at least work in favor of this—it's quite similar to Elder Scroll's Anu and Padomay, really. You have absolute IS, then absolute IS NOT, and their conflict births the interplay of "maybe", or perhaps what could better be described as things categorized by what they are, but also by what they are not. I think that having an ultimate conflict between "IS" and "ISN'T" as a starting point is a very good one.

Perhaps one point that could've been interesting is having the Light contemplate on itself, then, as a benevolent and all-loving entity, choosing deliberately to let the Void emerge, because that would allow there to be distinction between what is and isn't, thus creation. The ultimate act of love, of course, was to allow things to enjoy the glory of existence. That is ultimately a fairly simple concept, but one which makes a lick of sense and really suits what we've already been seen of the Light. From this very simple interplay, you get an interesting, multifaceted conflict. You have an ultimate good and evil, but you also have goods within those evils—somewhere in the Void, you could have an element that recognizes the futility of trying to refute everything, so chooses to deliberately accept the Light and help it make creation by carefully sculpting it and defining things through is-nots. From the Light, conversely, you have an element – a Naaru, or a group of them, which grows too dedicated to maintaining stagnancy – that is confused by creation and doesn't understand why the Light made itself weaker by creating an enemy—this could maybe even be a Satan-figure, or a conceptual predecessor to Sargeras. If I were to open my mind to retcons, it would actually make for an interesting retroactive cause for Sargeras, being that he met the aforementioned Satan-figure while looking for answers and sort of married his pre-retcon motive of being disappointed in the futility of maintaining order in creation and his post-retcon motive of trying to stop the Void Lords by revealing that the Light deliberately allowed these imperfections to exist by creating reality in the first place. This inspires Sargeras. However, unlike the implicit suggestion that the Dreadlords deliberately exposed him to this, it keeps Sargeras as threatening and autonomous as he was, simply inspired by something on a higher level. It also adds more definition and specificity to his goals without making him seem stupid or reducing them in scale.

With this simple plotline, which is simultaneously far simpler yet far deeper than the current, self-destructive cosmology system, you have an ultimate good and evil, the opportunity for moral complexity within the major forces, and a greater conflict which will eternally manifest itself in Azeroth through the interplay of good and evil, as well as of affirmation and refutation. Existence and nonexistence. It is simple, effective, and makes Azeroth itself an important place without demeaning anywhere else or making it too important. Azeroth, as a nexus of cosmic activity, reflects the higher concept stuff, but doesn't actively channel it all the time. Finally, and most importantly, it reframes things without cheapening them or changing them entirely retroactively.

[Aurabolt]

Rumor has it Dracthyr might get access to other classes mid-expansion or even later this year. Should be interesting if that happens though personally it makes more sense to start giving Dracthyr other classes at the end of the expansion the earliest.