The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Enrif]

Oh yeah, Eversong is huge. The problem is that it's mostly 2D, so as soon as you start flying, the cracks expand FAST!

It would be similar to the Isle of Dorn Zone, which is also quite open and flat. They might pronounce the elevation a bit more. But I don’t see a problem, not every zone needs drastic elevation shifts, and with d.r.i.v.e. a more flat area might be good.

[Cheezits]

I mean, I've never heard of a bat with quills, their fangs look very different from bat fangs, and the same goes for their claws... it looks more like they took parts from a wide variety of different animals, rather than just becoming part bat. And that's a big part of why I see them being influenced by Life itself rather than being tied to a specific animal or Loa.

That's a good point, and it would be kind of cool if The Cradle/the mystery flower in the Rootlands had the power to create Wild Gods. Being so close to a source of pure life magic could explain the random variety of animal traits.

It would be fun if their druid forms coincidentally linked to loa the various tribes worship- Bats for Hireek and Darkspear, then a bear and cat form for Drakkari and Amani (polar bear and lynx?). Maybe throw in a dino for Zandalar.

It would be funny if Haronir cats JUST SO HAPPEN to look like lynxes from Quel'thalas and Hallowfall. Maybe that's what the druid armor from 11.0 was hinting at?

[Enrif]

Ehm, well, Brann is technically a hunter and now has two new specs, and fun fact, one with a pistol and a shield which kinda fits with that weird pistoleer class leak we had earlier?

I guess. The healing spec of brann ist just throwing potions (apothecary survey class?) perhaps delve companions will just be a testing bed for different class ideas?

[Sondrelk]

Silvermoon is definitely going to be neutral, I can't see there being two capitals and it fits the Elf Unity thing. Lor and Thal may annex the rebuilt broken half to the Alliance.

I still think it's going to be a double capital of Lordaeron for Horde, and Gilneas for Alliance. It's in close proximity. Both capitals need all the furnishings like AH, Bank, portals, etc. And it's a very natural segue into Player housing, without it feeling strictly like it's a Midnight feature when it's time for the next expansions.
This also lets Silvermoon be a hostile area to start with that we gradually retake. Which would lead to a very natural 12.1 or 12.2 where Silvermoon is updated alongside a new Draenei settlement, both for narrative reasons, and to give a place to have Belf and Draenei themed houses.

[Cheezits]

I still think it's going to be a double capital of Lordaeron for Horde, and Gilneas for Alliance. It's in close proximity. Both capitals need all the furnishings like AH, Bank, portals, etc. And it's a very natural segue into Player housing, without it feeling strictly like it's a Midnight feature when it's time for the next expansions.

That would be really cool but it's also a lot more work to model Lordaeron, Gilneas and SMC than it is to just make a big SMC for both factions. Not being critical of this but I think it's just the more realistic option.

This also lets Silvermoon be a hostile area to start with that we gradually retake. Which would lead to a very natural 12.1 or 12.2 where Silvermoon is updated alongside a new Draenei settlement, both for narrative reasons, and to give a place to have Belf and Draenei themed houses.

I think if you make SMC hostile you run into the problem of "what is this expansion really about" and them marketing it as a "return to Quel'thalas" only to have the big nostalgia city be a questing area (even if you retake it) would piss people off bigtime.

[Sondrelk]

That would be really cool but it's also a lot more work to model Lordaeron, Gilneas and SMC than it is to just make a big SMC for both factions. Not being critical of this but I think it's just the more realistic option.



I think if you make SMC hostile you run into the problem of "what is this expansion really about" and them marketing it as a "return to Quel'thalas" only to have the big nostalgia city be a questing area (even if you retake it) would piss people off bigtime.

Gilneas is basically done already. And I don't think people would be too fussed if all it gets is a once over with better textures and some interiors in the various buildings in Gilneas city.
For Lordaeron. While it definitely would be a lot of work redoing Undercity, I could see a solution where they simply make Lordaeron City the main hub, and spruce that up alongside the tower outside which is de facto the Forsaken hub at this point.
Then it's just about designating where the player house plots are, which could easily take up a lot of space.
Admittedly, much of this is predicated on my belief that Midnight will attempt to make one house plot and style for each core Alliance and Horde race, starting with Human/Dwarf, and Orc/(something else, probably Goblin) for the pre-expansion. Going into Forsaken, Worgen for launch. And then Belf/Draenei at some later point. They all have somewhere logical to be placed, bar Forsaken, Worgen, and Draenei. All of whom would be perfect for Midnight. Whatever races remain like Nelves, Gnomes, Trolls, and Tauren could come at some undefined point when the designers are done making them.


Players being angry at Silvermoon being hostile is entirely subjective. I know a lot of people would be annoyed if the developers miss the chance at Suramar 2.0 with big raids to liberate the city.

[Cheezits]

Admittedly, much of this is predicated on my belief that Midnight will attempt to make one house plot and style for each core Alliance and Horde race, starting with Human/Dwarf, and Orc/(something else, probably Goblin) for the pre-expansion.

I think housing at launch will mostly be from HD furniture assets that already exist. If you use Mists or WoD as the first benchmark of a modern expansion, you can have models and doodads from Mists-TWW. Zandalari houses, Kul Tiran houses, etc. There will likely be a SMC house pretty early because of all the assets they made for Midnight itself.

There may be an Earthen house because of TWW but there hasn't been a refresh of regular Dwarf assets in a while, so it may take longer for that.

[Sondrelk]

I think housing at launch will mostly be from HD furniture assets that already exist. If you use Mists or WoD as the first benchmark of a modern expansion, you can have models and doodads from Mists-TWW. Zandalari houses, Kul Tiran houses, etc. There will likely be a SMC house pretty early because of all the assets they made for Midnight itself.

There may be an Earthen house because of TWW but there hasn't been a refresh of regular Dwarf assets in a while, so it may take longer for that.

Earthen houses are close enough to Dwarf that I think you could easily pretend it always looked like that with a few choice changes like removing the most egregious differences and swapping the colour palette.

[Cheezits]

Earthen houses are close enough to Dwarf that I think you could easily pretend it always looked like that with a few choice changes like removing the most egregious differences and swapping the colour palette.

I agree that they could probably get away with that, but I'd much rather them delay a Dwarf House until they have an expansion where the assets can be properly used so the art team gets time to cook.

Even if you just use TWW you have a wealth of house asset options-

-Earthen
-Hallowfall
-Nerubian
-Goblin
-Kobold?

Then Midnight would have Thalassian and Troll items plus likely Forsaken and Draenei stuff. But I admit there's a possibility they may be stocking up on world revamp assets and will just make houses using those, such as all the updated human stuff in the files.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

Is it just me who's generally disappointed with WoW cities?

I find that cities are filled with unnecessarily large spaces, where they make streets as big as soccer stadiums, they could easily make several streets by putting more buildings on them. As for Undermine, I've only seen the official presentation videos, so I don't want to be spoiled, but have you seen the artwork behind the developers? It looked more like an ultra-populated city center than anything I've seen... I may be wrong, but I don't think it does justice to the Undermine we knew before in the story.

Valdrakken seemed... unhoused, despite the few towers there were.
Dornogal has unnecessarily large, empty squares

And the few hubs in other zones, like Mereldar, are so small... in fact, the “cities” look more like villages deep in the countryside than capitals.
I still think they're being lazy about it. So I'm rather skeptical about the new Silvermoon.

[Joshuaj]

Females have four arms and some a set of snakey hair.



Vikings. You're talking about literal vikings. How would that not be epic?



Then, maybe, those that we recruit retained theirs.



Maybe if they were actual undead mummies...
It's not like they weren't people before Dimensius' destruction.



You're right.
The whole premise of a Naga is being a serpent.
It just feels like they could have been much more. Even Brokers have more style than them.



Yes, as monsters. Not as the protagonists.



They could do them without the wrappings, as blobs of energy, selling wrappings for 10$ on the store.

Is there a problem with the Void also being good in some cases?

- - - Updated - - -

It would be similar to the Isle of Dorn Zone, which is also quite open and flat. They might pronounce the elevation a bit more. But I don’t see a problem, not every zone needs drastic elevation shifts, and with d.r.i.v.e. a more flat area might be good.

Dude, it's a forest...

[Limayria]

Is there a problem with the Void also being good in some cases?

- - - Updated - - -



Dude, it's a forest...

nah you see the thing that gave almost every player race (or maybe all of them we dont really know) free will is evil actually

[johnnyd2]

Is it just me who's generally disappointed with WoW cities?

I find that cities are filled with unnecessarily large spaces, where they make streets as big as soccer stadiums, they could easily make several streets by putting more buildings on them. As for Undermine, I've only seen the official presentation videos, so I don't want to be spoiled, but have you seen the artwork behind the developers? It looked more like an ultra-populated city center than anything I've seen... I may be wrong, but I don't think it does justice to the Undermine we knew before in the story.

Valdrakken seemed... unhoused, despite the few towers there were.
Dornogal has unnecessarily large, empty squares

And the few hubs in other zones, like Mereldar, are so small... in fact, the “cities” look more like villages deep in the countryside than capitals.
I still think they're being lazy about it. So I'm rather skeptical about the new Silvermoon.

NGL. I think Suramar may have spoiled us.

[Hitei]

NGL. I think Suramar may have spoiled us.

I think Boralus is superior to Suramar in terms of actual city design/depiction, even if I personally like Suramar more and it is obviously more visually impressive by virtue of all its glowy arcane stuff.

[Nymrohd]

The only cities that look proper in WoW are Boralus and Suramar.

[huth]

Is it just me who's generally disappointed with WoW cities?

I find that cities are filled with unnecessarily large spaces, where they make streets as big as soccer stadiums, they could easily make several streets by putting more buildings on them. As for Undermine, I've only seen the official presentation videos, so I don't want to be spoiled, but have you seen the artwork behind the developers? It looked more like an ultra-populated city center than anything I've seen... I may be wrong, but I don't think it does justice to the Undermine we knew before in the story.

Valdrakken seemed... unhoused, despite the few towers there were.
Dornogal has unnecessarily large, empty squares

And the few hubs in other zones, like Mereldar, are so small... in fact, the “cities” look more like villages deep in the countryside than capitals.
I still think they're being lazy about it. So I'm rather skeptical about the new Silvermoon.

Full-size cities would be highly impractical and boring. And the hubs are meant to be easy to navigate. Making tight corridors isn't helpful with that.
A realistic sized Mereldar would be the size of the entire zone at least. Azj-Kahet would probably be even larger. Both also have the benefit of being underground; they don't need as many buildings when you can just set things up outdoors. Not like it'd rain. At the same time, that makes large open spaces more useful.

That aside, Valdrakken was a city for full-sized dragons. It actually needs the wide open spaces, while houses aren't really that important to them.
Dornogal presumably had to be able to accomodate the larger Titan constructs as well, what with the Coreway being there and a lot of the private spaces are implied to be built into the surrounding mountain.

[Enrif]

Silvermoon City as an Adventure zone would suck. It should be the capital for Midnight, no questions. Anything else would be a disgrace and a wasted opportunity to update one of the most beloved cities of roleplayers, just for some world quests to take place there. Anyone that advocates for Silvermoon to be some sort of Suramar or Azj'kahet is so tonedeaf. It would be like saying lets rework Ironforge, Stormwind, Orgrimmar, Thunderbluff, Shattrath, Dalaran into advneture zones. This game is a fricking MMO RPG, it should have cities that people could live in. Not everything has to be some stupid gameplay loop.

[username993720]

I'm talking about Legacy of the Void, the expansion to Starcraft II where a nearly-faceless species of humanoids were the protagonists.

Yes, the Xel'naga.
Still, they're monsters. Gods even. Not your playable Terrans, Zerg or Protoss.

Is there a problem with the Void also being good in some cases?

Where did i say that?

[huth]

Yes, the Xel'naga.
Still, they're monsters. Gods even. Not your playable Terrans, Zerg or Protoss.

Protoss facial features: Eyes. That's it.

[Viridiel]

Silvermoon City as an Adventure zone would suck. It should be the capital for Midnight, no questions. Anything else would be a disgrace and a wasted opportunity to update one of the most beloved cities of roleplayers, just for some world quests to take place there. Anyone that advocates for Silvermoon to be some sort of Suramar or Azj'kahet is so tonedeaf. It would be like saying lets rework Ironforge, Stormwind, Orgrimmar, Thunderbluff, Shattrath, Dalaran into advneture zones. This game is a fricking MMO RPG, it should have cities that people could live in. Not everything has to be some stupid gameplay loop.

Isn't that just replacing one gameplay loop for another? Cities are going to be designed very differently depending on if we spend time there as a hub, spend time there doing quests, or if we don't spend time there at all unless we're roleplaying.

Boralus was a pretty clean mix of all three in different areas of the city, although I think the hub section could've been a lot better than it was. I'd like to see something similar for Silvermoon: a hub section with the inn, bank, auction house, etc. in a fairly tight circle with areas for chilling/AFKing (more Dalaran than Dornogal); a questing/hostile section with storylines that involve residents (more Suramar than Boralus); and a section with profession tables, a market, and residential homes with scripted NPC roleplay and enough room for RPers to do their thing. Other than that we definitely need attention paid to spires and floating objects for flying around aimlessly (think the floating root circles in the Emerald Dream).

I'm not married to there being a questing/hostile section, but Suramar and the City of Threads show that it seems to help a lot with worldbuilding. It makes a city feel alive and interactive rather than just a place for NPCs to stand.