The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[huth]

I'd love to see Avaloren, but my issue with it is that I don't want the entire continent to be presented in a single expansion. I want a new continent that's truly vast, comparable to Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms. Not a smaller landmass like Pandaria or the islands we've gotten (Broken, Dragon, etc.)

I want a third greater-scale continent, and I don't think a single expansion it enough to cover one. I think we'd need at least two, maybe as part of another saga. Couldn't there be some cliff-hanger two-part saga, where you cover the southern half of Avaloren, but there's something even more dangerous and scary in the northern half? There's mention of a Titan expedition that went heretical, and how 'advances' of the Black Empire were to be kept secret. Maybe

Part 1 - South Avaloren, Arathi Empire
Part 2 - North Avaloren, Titanforged+Black Empire civilization

You could even add a third which is about preparing and organising the means to actually get there. Getting Nightsqualls map, finding a vessel that can manage the journey etc..

[Joshuaj]

I'd love to see Avaloren, but my issue with it is that I don't want the entire continent to be presented in a single expansion. I want a new continent that's truly vast, comparable to Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms. Not a smaller landmass like Pandaria or the islands we've gotten (Broken, Dragon, etc.)

I want a third greater-scale continent, and I don't think a single expansion it enough to cover one. I think we'd need at least two, maybe as part of another saga. Couldn't there be some cliff-hanger two-part saga, where you cover the southern half of Avaloren, but there's something even more dangerous and scary in the northern half? There's mention of a Titan expedition that went heretical, and how 'advances' of the Black Empire were to be kept secret. Maybe

Part 1 - South Avaloren, Arathi Empire
Part 2 - North Avaloren, Titanforged+Black Empire civilization

Avaloren being a Saga would make sense ngl. Would probably fit that as it's own thing if I wanted to.

My thing tho is that I kinda want WoW to end off at 30.0. Has enough material to get to that number, and ngl, it ending at 30.0 seems fitting.

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You could even add a third which is about preparing and organising the means to actually get there. Getting Nightsqualls map, finding a vessel that can manage the journey etc..

For my speculation, that's actually what I want part of 17.0's plot to be about.

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Or sisterhood is metaphoric and Elune is a sister to the Winter Queen in the same way she is with Eonar; she has fostered a strong relationship with her.

Considering they are literal counterparts? I'm not quite sure it's like that.

[Viridiel]

For funsies: what themes do you think we've yet to fully experience in WoW?

In the past, we used to bring up the Dragon Isles, Undermine, the Emerald Dream, etc. as potential expansion settings. But most of it has been done at this point!

Here are some that I'd like to see, either as full expansions or simply as new zones:

• "True" South Seas expansion. I still think Blizzard tried too much with Battle for Azeroth. It was their way of giving us a South Seas expansion, just like Void Elves was their way of giving us High Elves. I want a swashbuckling pirate adventure, deep tropical jungles with rivers and palm trees and volcanies and sandy beaches. Sholazar Basin meets Zandalar meets Kul Tiras meets Stranglethorn Vale meets Krasarang Wilds. Use Plunder Isle as the launching point of the expansion, and from there we sail into the "true" South Seas, below Pandaria. Tel'Abim, Hiji and other places are obviously features. Let me sit on the beach of a remote island in the tropics, looking out to sea, just enjoying the Monkey Island vibes.
• Age of Exploration: other Side of Azeroth ft. Erinethria's brood. Literally just let us sail west/east from the known continents, and find what's beyond the waves. A different take on traditional WoW. Elwynn-like forests that aren't Elwynn. Mulgore-like plains that aren't Mulgore. Find old sailors from Azeroth that got shipwrecked. Discover new civilizations. Meet dragons unlike any you've seen before. Learn cool old lore about known continents from people who left those places long ago, or through messages in a bottle that floated ashore over the years.
• The Big Revamp. Yes, of course. Duh. We all want Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms to receive the revamp treatment. Traditonal WoW but in HD, much larger, with new stories to tell, and endgame set in these remade zones.
• Venture deeper into Emerald Dream or Ardenweald, beyond the confines of the Titans/Eternal ones. Just pure wilderness in those two themes.
• Time Travel to Ancient Kalimdor. It would be sick to experience the world as it was back then. At least in a (modern) patch. So much potential for "origin story" lore.
• Draenor 3.0. I'd be down for a revisit to either Outland or Draenor, if they found a way to expand on it. For example going to the ogre continent in the south, where everything would be really big and brutish.
• Into the Great Dark Beyond. Sure, why not? Let's planet-hop a bit aboard draenei interdimensional ships. See Argus again, K'aresh, and maybe a couple of new places. It would be difficult to not make it feel very fragmented and stuff. So maybe in the future if they start doing short expansions. A return of the Burning Legion?
• Return to Kalimdor. Revamp or not, I really think the game needs a Kalimdor-centric expansion, where we get typical Horde content set around the Barrens, Mulgore, etc., but also to clean up the legacy of the Night Elves and their various homes around Mount Hyjal. They could probably do something with the Botani and Saberon that escaped here.

I agree with the majority of these. I think we'll continue with the trend of revisiting or reimagining past expansions in order to update the game piecemeal, which means an actual old world revamp will be soon, aka a revisit of Cataclysm. I feel like we're going to revisit Outland at some point in the World Soul Saga--by that point the Netherstorm might be the only area left, which has an intimate connection to Dimensius, the ethereals, and the naaru. After that, I agree that Kalimdor not only deserves its own expansion but will more than likely get one. I've got a couple ideas for how they could do it with Kalimdor being so massive, but I'm really married to the idea of the Elemental Plane being shattered and causing chaos on Azeroth, dramatically changing some areas and blocking some other areas off. The northern and southern reaches of the continent could be blocked off by Neptulon and Thunderaan respectively, leaving us to deal with things in the middle until we're ready to face them in patch content. We're somewhat friendly with the Elemental Lords now, but who knows how they might behave if freed.

As for the Eastern Kingdoms, Lordaeron I think NEEDS to be part of the Arathi Empire expansion. There are three zones worth of content there, plus the missing Northeron that I think should be added as an island that split off from the Twilight Highlands during the Cataclysm. The setup would be the Arathi Empire attacking Lordaeron and the patch content would involve us chasing them across the sea (note: either we won't see the full extent of the empire until later, or the empire will turn out to be a relatively small part of a larger, rich continent that we'll see later). I actually don't have much of an idea of what to do with the southern subcontinent... Therazane's original territory is seemingly sunken into the ocean now, so she might attack the dwarves instead for delving too deep or some nonsense like that, but I think I'd rather see her be involved in what happens in Kalimdor as a follow-up to her daughter's storyline in Desolace. There's infinite potential for a Firelord storyline since we don't really know what's going on there, and we can't have anything in that area without Medivh being relevant again. I'd like to see the nathrezim return with control over the remnants of the Burning Legion and their various associated factions, probably taking over Karazhan and/or hijacking the Dark Portal. I'd like to see the Darkspear take over Zul'Gurub and have that act as the Horde's hub. Patch content would be attacking Nathreza and/or returning to Argus, unless there's new lore regarding the Firelord that takes us elsewhere.

For the rest of the expansions, I think BfA might need to be split in half with Zandalar being revisited alongside Pandaria (the true South Seas expansion) and Kul Tiras revisited alongside the Broken Isles (not a strong thematic link there but very easy to write a storyline that affects both areas due to proximity). This is unless the Maelstrom blows up with the destruction of the Elemental Plane and causes extreme damage to all of these areas, in which case anything is possible. WoD is truly the odd one out since the areas we want to see are the ones we never saw in the first place, so I think those areas could show up as patch content related to Yrel. One day we'll have to accept that Draenor is gone for good.

[Joshuaj]

I agree with the majority of these. I think we'll continue with the trend of revisiting or reimagining past expansions in order to update the game piecemeal, which means an actual old world revamp will be soon, aka a revisit of Cataclysm. I feel like we're going to revisit Outland at some point in the World Soul Saga--by that point the Netherstorm might be the only area left, which has an intimate connection to Dimensius, the ethereals, and the naaru. After that, I agree that Kalimdor not only deserves its own expansion but will more than likely get one. I've got a couple ideas for how they could do it with Kalimdor being so massive, but I'm really married to the idea of the Elemental Plane being shattered and causing chaos on Azeroth, dramatically changing some areas and blocking some other areas off. The northern and southern reaches of the continent could be blocked off by Neptulon and Thunderaan respectively, leaving us to deal with things in the middle until we're ready to face them in patch content. We're somewhat friendly with the Elemental Lords now, but who knows how they might behave if freed.

As for the Eastern Kingdoms, Lordaeron I think NEEDS to be part of the Arathi Empire expansion. There are three zones worth of content there, plus the missing Northeron that I think should be added as an island that split off from the Twilight Highlands during the Cataclysm. The setup would be the Arathi Empire attacking Lordaeron and the patch content would involve us chasing them across the sea (note: either we won't see the full extent of the empire until later, or the empire will turn out to be a relatively small part of a larger, rich continent that we'll see later). I actually don't have much of an idea of what to do with the southern subcontinent... Therazane's original territory is seemingly sunken into the ocean now, so she might attack the dwarves instead for delving too deep or some nonsense like that, but I think I'd rather see her be involved in what happens in Kalimdor as a follow-up to her daughter's storyline in Desolace. There's infinite potential for a Firelord storyline since we don't really know what's going on there, and we can't have anything in that area without Medivh being relevant again. I'd like to see the nathrezim return with control over the remnants of the Burning Legion and their various associated factions, probably taking over Karazhan and/or hijacking the Dark Portal. I'd like to see the Darkspear take over Zul'Gurub and have that act as the Horde's hub. Patch content would be attacking Nathreza and/or returning to Argus, unless there's new lore regarding the Firelord that takes us elsewhere.

For the rest of the expansions, I think BfA might need to be split in half with Zandalar being revisited alongside Pandaria (the true South Seas expansion) and Kul Tiras revisited alongside the Broken Isles (not a strong thematic link there but very easy to write a storyline that affects both areas due to proximity). This is unless the Maelstrom blows up with the destruction of the Elemental Plane and causes extreme damage to all of these areas, in which case anything is possible. WoD is truly the odd one out since the areas we want to see are the ones we never saw in the first place, so I think those areas could show up as patch content related to Yrel. One day we'll have to accept that Draenor is gone for good.

I'd rather Lordaeron be part of Midnight tbh

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Also, a lightbound controlled Draenor would honestly make for a fun expansion setting ngl.

[Eldryth]

You could even add a third which is about preparing and organising the means to actually get there. Getting Nightsqualls map, finding a vessel that can manage the journey etc..

Personally, I'd like to see them follow the Saga up with a low-stakes world revamp expansion or two while building up to Avaloren. With TLT set up as the climax for WoW's story so far, it makes sense to treat what comes next as a new start. Kalimdor especially can use an expansion like this, since so much was teased for it (the Night Elves rebuilding, the Orcs healing Durotar, the new Draenei city if it isn't introduced sooner somewhere else, etc.), and there's certainly room for one in EK too. During that the Arathi Empire proper can attack us first leading to us invading them in the following expansions.

Though the risk with that is that FFXIV is currently attempting their own low-stakes stories after the grand finale of its original arc, and it's been received pretty poorly so far. Personally, I think it's more an issue of execution (Dawntrail kind of turned the whole "exploring an unknown continent" theme into a big guided tour and had a single new NPC overshadow the entire cast, to the point where you barely interact with anyone else), but it would be sadly understandable if that makes people skeptical about having some expansions like that.

[Joshuaj]

Personally, I'd like to see them follow the Saga up with a low-stakes world revamp expansion or two while building up to Avaloren. With TLT set up as the climax for WoW's story so far, it makes sense to treat what comes next as a new start. Kalimdor especially can use an expansion like this, since so much was teased for it (the Night Elves rebuilding, the Orcs healing Durotar, the new Draenei city if it isn't introduced sooner somewhere else, etc.), and there's certainly room for one in EK too. During that the Arathi Empire proper can attack us first leading to us invading them in the following expansions.

Though the risk with that is that FFXIV is currently attempting their own low-stakes stories after the grand finale of its original arc, and it's been received pretty poorly so far. Personally, I think it's more an issue of execution (Dawntrail kind of turned the whole "exploring an unknown continent" theme into a big guided tour and had a single new NPC overshadow the entire cast, to the point where you barely interact with anyone else), but it would be sadly understandable if that makes people skeptical about having some expansions like that.

People actually don't dislike Dawntrail cause of that. They dislike it cause it's VERY inconsistent tone wise. The expansion box shows something very Aztec-ish and whatnot, but the actual expansion consists of a lot of sci-fi tech, sci-fi based areas, sci-fi cities, and sci-fi bosses.

It's like the expansion doesn't even know what it wants to be.

[Golden Yak]

You could even add a third which is about preparing and organising the means to actually get there. Getting Nightsqualls map, finding a vessel that can manage the journey etc..

I would predict an Eastern Kingdoms revamp, with the Arathi Empire trying to conquer it. Basically post-Midnight they go "Great, we saved the world! Now, it's time for us to rule it!" and they start with their ancestral homelands (Stromgarde + Quel'thalas)

Staving off total conquest of the Eastern Kingdoms would be part 1, then we backtrack them to Avaloren to deal with the Empire proper, and finally we get a hint that the Empire might be gearing up to move because things are turning gnarly to the north, with whatever the rogue Titanforged faction is getting up to.

[Jolly Roger]

It's wild that this doesn't seem unreasonable, instead pretty likely. I'll say new class is maybe the least likely.

the new class pattern is very unlikely to be broken again after the whole "we listen now its time to come back we are so much better we promise"

in fact a lot of the hero talent designs can be interpreted as feeling out how a new class might work

[huth]

I would predict an Eastern Kingdoms revamp, with the Arathi Empire trying to conquer it. Basically post-Midnight they go "Great, we saved the world! Now, it's time for us to rule it!" and they start with their ancestral homelands (Stromgarde + Quel'thalas)

Staving off total conquest of the Eastern Kingdoms would be part 1, then we backtrack them to Avaloren to deal with the Empire proper, and finally we get a hint that the Empire might be gearing up to move because things are turning gnarly to the north, with whatever the rogue Titanforged faction is getting up to.

Given how difficult it was for them to get to Hallowfall, i don't think an invasion in either direction makes a whole lot of sense. There's no good way of getting significant forces from either continent to the other.

[Eldryth]

People actually don't dislike Dawntrail cause of that. They dislike it cause it's VERY inconsistent tone wise. The expansion box shows something very Aztec-ish and whatnot, but the actual expansion consists of a lot of sci-fi tech, sci-fi based areas, sci-fi cities, and sci-fi bosses.

It's like the expansion doesn't even know what it wants to be.

That was my personal opinion of Dawntrail (though I could also add that the second half was horribly paced, with a pure filler zone followed by a zone consisting of non-stop exposition dumps).

I've seen a a lot of complaints about the expansion in general, but most of them come back to Wuk Lamat, the lack of stakes, and the ending feeling too much like a repeat of another expansion's ending. Your issue isn't really something I've seen come up often- and wouldn't really expect to, since the sci-fi stuff was heavily advertised and a common thing for the franchise. If anything, I've seen more praise for that part (especially the raid story) than the rest of the expansion- though, admittedly, I didn't stick around after finishing the MSQ and haven't checked its lasting reception.

Given how difficult it was for them to get to Hallowfall, i don't think an invasion in either direction makes a whole lot of sense. There's no good way of getting significant forces from either continent to the other.

That may be the case now, but it could easily change by the end of the Saga. For all we know, the storms could have been created by the Titans to keep outsiders from entering Kalimdor and messing up their plans (or to keep their creations from leaving), and could go away after TLT opening up the rest of the world.

[Golden Yak]

Given how difficult it was for them to get to Hallowfall, i don't think an invasion in either direction makes a whole lot of sense. There's no good way of getting significant forces from either continent to the other.

It was difficult to get across the Maelstrom too, or to Pandaria, or to the Dragon Isles. Until it wasn't.

[Worldshaper]

A lot of cool ideas so far. Keep 'em coming!

A pirate adventure involving the Nightsquall leading up to travelling west sounds fun!

[Xilurm]

A lot of cool ideas so far. Keep 'em coming!

A pirate adventure involving the Nightsquall leading up to travelling west sounds fun!

Dynamic ship travel let's fucking goooooooo. Sly 3 did it 15 years ago. Black Flag perfected it. Time for WoW to steal it.

[alex wolf]

For funsies: what themes do you think we've yet to fully experience in WoW?

In the past, we used to bring up the Dragon Isles, Undermine, the Emerald Dream, etc. as potential expansion settings. But most of it has been done at this point!

Here are some that I'd like to see, either as full expansions or simply as new zones:

• Into the Great Dark Beyond. Sure, why not? Let's planet-hop a bit aboard draenei interdimensional ships. See Argus again, K'aresh, and maybe a couple of new places. It would be difficult to not make it feel very fragmented and stuff. So maybe in the future if they start doing short expansions. A return of the Burning Legion?

I think the pieces are all there for this to be really compelling, fixing up tempest keep, the illidari working on getting their ship working 100%, repairing the exodar and the vindicar (which i think is totally fine? not 100% on its status) + the whole "whats the status quo after tlt gonna look like" i think we're gonna learn that Azeorth and mortals are supposed to be gurdians of the matieral plane keeping everything balanced and preventing any force from causing the universe to enter a death spiral, and us taking it upon ourselves to try and undo some of the damage the legion did planning to slowly spread across the great dark and try to heal the worlds burned by the legions crusade, the last pieces for this really coming together would be forging a relationship with the etherals which im fairly sure will happen in midnight (i think this should be a thing the illidari do, potenitally while resettling onto outland) to try and get their biodome tech, I could also see this being when our trip to K'aresh happens with the etherals giving us the tech to test on draenor in return for us agreeing to help them claw back what remains of their home from the void to begin the long process of healing it, probably with the aid of druids and shaman and maybe the dragons? could easily see this being a place sylavnus shows back up in as well seeing it as part of her penance to try and nurture new life

Given how difficult it was for them to get to Hallowfall, i don't think an invasion in either direction makes a whole lot of sense. There's no good way of getting significant forces from either continent to the other.

I have a crack theory that the hallowfall expedition was actually flung forward in time as well so the actual gap between them leaving and today is larger than they realize. I also hope that once we actually get to wherever the Arathi are now theyre based off a post ww2 style America, with a big focus on a paranoid intelligence apparatus and playing into the lore of like, humans being created by aliens and genetic manipulation by eldritch horrors (that are separate from the alien robots that created them originally) give me wow mj12 + having a large population of Elves native to Avalaorn (or whereever they end up) who were evolved by the sacred flame/azerite like how the nightelves were evolved by the WoE, could have the Arathi even having a secret titan forged facility they found and are keeping secret as the truth of where humans came from would undermine the mythology that has grown about the Arathi emperors, with the current emperor having to fight against the WoW CIA/MJ12 to not be cut out of the discoveries

[Black Rider]

Dynamic ship travel let's fucking goooooooo. Sly 3 did it 15 years ago. Black Flag perfected it. Time for WoW to steal it.

Black Flag model would be more than awesome!
BTW Sea of Thieves has good one too

[Osmeric]

Could be interesting!

Although, I think one lesson learned in Shadowlands is to never go full cosmic.

There was a point when the comic book industry discovered the same thing. I think it was the 1970s?

[FossilFree]

Could be interesting!

Although, I think one lesson learned in Shadowlands is to never go full cosmic. Pretty much all expansions touched on cosmic lore to some degree, but there seems to be a concensus that people still want Azeroth to be prominent.

You know, mountains, rivers, lakes, forests, deserts, jungles, towns and villages, etc.

I don't think you can call Shadowlands cosmic. Sure, in a purely technical sense of the powers chart maybe, but thematically it has nothing to do with space. The theme is halloween x1000, not outer space.

[huth]

I don't think you can call Shadowlands cosmic. Sure, in a purely technical sense of the powers chart maybe, but thematically it has nothing to do with space. The theme is halloween x1000, not outer space.

Cosmic doesn't generally mean space exploration.

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Black Flag model would be more than awesome!
BTW Sea of Thieves has good one too

As long as they don't go to far after that anyway. Certainly not recent "quadruple" A pirate titles.

[Raetary]

I don't think you can call Shadowlands cosmic. Sure, in a purely technical sense of the powers chart maybe, but thematically it has nothing to do with space. The theme is halloween x1000, not outer space.

"Cosmic" does not just mean outer space exploration, it describes something vast and related to the wider universe, as opposed to something local and earthly.

Shadowlands' main theme is the mechanisms of life beyond death, which is as cosmic as you can get.

[Cheezits]

Shadowlands setting was poor because the idea of an expansion where Azeroth barely matters isn't a great idea. The idea was to show how insignificant we are in the greater universe of extended setting Warcraft: not exactly palatable with some people. Also bad story doesn't help.

If it was set in four-five afterlife pocket realms DIRECTLY connected to Azeroth, that would've done a lot better imo. We could get a glimpse of the greater Shadowlands in a raid or a patch zone instead of being stuck in a land almost completely disconnected from Azeroth and its races.