The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

It's not the same thing.
An "FPS view" just refers to the camera placement.

It's exactly the same when it comes to WoW. An FPS view with adapted animations. That's all there is to it.

What you seem to want is first person action combat

No, that's not what I said. Try again.

which will not happen.

I have several responses to this kind of talk:

1. Like housing ?
2. Do you have divination powers to know what will or won't happen?
3. Do you work for Blizzard?
4. Do you have any inside information?

We don't know what Blizzard will do. Nobody does. Stop with this kind of assertion.

You are asking for Blizzard to completely redo wows gameplay foundation.

You don't read. I invite you again to read what I've written. Try again.

Apples and Oranges.

Housing is a cosmetic feature.
Dynamic Flight/Drive only affects travel.

Neither has any effect on wows combat system.

Congratulations, but that wasn't the point. I was responding to Huth who said:

You don't quite seem to grasp the type of change you're asking for. That's not something you can't just change after 20 years of operation.

The point was that, in his opinion, a proper FPS view is a MASSIVE thing. In my humble opinion, whatever category you seem to list as an argument, both of these systems were probably more complicated to set up than making an immersive FPS view. To quote you :

Apples and Oranges.

But who knows, maybe it's more complicated than it sounds. In any case, it's not our problem, it's Blizzard's, who have already demonstrated time and again that if they really want to add something “complicated” to the game, they'll do it. But then again, that's not the point.

[huth]

The point was that, in his opinion, a proper FPS view is a MASSIVE thing. In my humble opinion, whatever category you seem to list as an argument, both of these systems were probably more complicated to set up than making an immersive FPS view. To quote you :

The problem here appears to be that you don't quite grasp what it is you're actually asking for. What you want is already ingame. What you ask for is well outside any reasonable development investment.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

The problem here appears to be that you don't quite grasp what it is you're actually asking for. What you want is already ingame. What you ask for is well outside any reasonable development investment.

If Huth from MMO-C says it, it must be true. Apparently, you even know what I want better than I do.

An immersive FPS view (optional). Appropriate animations. Matching UI. That's all I want. Well, “want” is a big word, it was mostly in reflection because honestly I'm not sure it looks good in WoW. Up close, it's not very pretty.
I even mentioned the option in the settings that seem to be made for joystick players. I've forgotten the name, but it's already there.

[Khaza-R]

Considering the Titans have been pretty pro-Light and seemingly align with their goal at times (one singular timeline, using holy powers, etc) you have to wonder why exactly the Arathi would be considered heretics. Maybe because they follow another aspect of Light that goes against the Titan mission.

That, or the Pantheon aren't actually pro-Light and it's mostly a Tyr thing. This may explain why there isn't a Light-themed Titan on the Pantheon. Could there be a rogue Light Titan who is working with the Arathi?

The lack of interaction between Naaru and Titans was always a bit weird to me. Its obviously not the case but I wouldn't mind if the Naaru were actually titan constructs made of structures like Beledar so they could impose their will on the Light.

The Sacred Flame representing a more primal and innate form of the Light that perhaps the Titans don't want mortals tapping into.

[Cheezits]

From the newest build:

LFG Dungeons
Dungeons
9.0 Maw Prototype - Sartharion's Lair - Map: Maw Prototype - Torment Chambers. Roles: 1 tank/1 healer/3 damage. 3 damage.

What's going on here, do we think?

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The lack of interaction between Naaru and Titans was always a bit weird to me. Its obviously not the case but I wouldn't mind if the Naaru were actually titan constructs made of structures like Beledar so they could impose their will on the Light.

The Sacred Flame representing a more primal and innate form of the Light that perhaps the Titans don't want mortals tapping into.

I like the Light being robotic and converting, and the Naaru fit that, but the idea that the Sacred Flame is "Real Light" is a nice kind of development that would allow things like An'she being a real thing and not just a Tauren delusion.

[Sondrelk]

From the newest build:

LFG Dungeons
Dungeons
9.0 Maw Prototype - Sartharion's Lair - Map: Maw Prototype - Torment Chambers. Roles: 1 tank/1 healer/3 damage. 3 damage.

What's going on here, do we think?

I am going to assume Occam's razor is in play here, and they are simply reusing a map ID. My initial guess would be that it's for a Delve or something.

Of course, more ambitiously, could be the return of Sylvanas or some such. Not sure I would say it's a good idea to drag her and the narrative baggage back with her, but it would make sense for a return to Quel'thalas.

Sartharion is the boss in Obsidian Sanctum for those that are curious.

[Limayria]

From the newest build:

LFG Dungeons
Dungeons
9.0 Maw Prototype - Sartharion's Lair - Map: Maw Prototype - Torment Chambers. Roles: 1 tank/1 healer/3 damage. 3 damage.

What's going on here, do we think?

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I like the Light being robotic and converting, and the Naaru fit that, but the idea that the Sacred Flame is "Real Light" is a nice kind of development that would allow things like An'she being a real thing and not just a Tauren delusion.

I think the maw prototype thing could be using some torghast stuff for something, maybe testing for the new horrific visions using torghast as a base or somethign

[Khaza-R]

I like the Light being robotic and converting, and the Naaru fit that, but the idea that the Sacred Flame is "Real Light" is a nice kind of development that would allow things like An'she being a real thing and not just a Tauren delusion.

Kind of my hope for it as well. I don't mind the Naaru when they're attached to the Draenei's story. But it always felt off that they became the de facto authority on all things Light-related.

[Viridiel]

I would imagine he is referring to the Arathi. Calling them heretics would imply they went against the titan's belief system and turned against the titanic keepers (and their followers) in favor of their own belief system/religion (the Sacred Flame) which will probably just end up being Order vs. Light.

Is that possible? Unless there's been some retcons, Odyn was overthrown by Loken over 10,000 years ago and the Arathi Empire has only existed for 2-3,000 years. It's possible the report is actually addressed to Loken, but that would have very, very different implications for the relationship between the titanforged and the Arathi.

I'm very much sold on the idea that there's something to do with Amitus on the other side of Azeroth and the Arathi stole it from the heretics and are using that as the source of their sacred flame. It could also just be some generic titan mumbo-jumbo, but the fact that Amitus' magic looks just like the sacred flame and that the sacred flame is a combination of Arcane and Holy magic provides too good of a connection to be ignored. I don't expect anything from Hearthstone to be made canonical, but we know they haven't shied away from it in the past.

[Zardas]

If Huth from MMO-C says it, it must be true. Apparently, you even know what I want better than I do.

An immersive FPS view (optional). Appropriate animations. Matching UI. That's all I want. Well, “want” is a big word, it was mostly in reflection because honestly I'm not sure it looks good in WoW. Up close, it's not very pretty.

Adding to that, there is already add-ons which kinda do this stuff. So yeah, it very much is not that big of a task, and definitely not on the scope of housing or other "too big to add feature' that we got and will soon get.

[Ersula]

Is that possible? Unless there's been some retcons, Odyn was overthrown by Loken over 10,000 years ago and the Arathi Empire has only existed for 2-3,000 years. It's possible the report is actually addressed to Loken, but that would have very, very different implications for the relationship between the titanforged and the Arathi.

I'm very much sold on the idea that there's something to do with Amitus on the other side of Azeroth and the Arathi stole it from the heretics and are using that as the source of their sacred flame. It could also just be some generic titan mumbo-jumbo, but the fact that Amitus' magic looks just like the sacred flame and that the sacred flame is a combination of Arcane and Holy magic provides too good of a connection to be ignored. I don't expect anything from Hearthstone to be made canonical, but we know they haven't shied away from it in the past.

I think there's two possibilities for the "Heretics" in the Uldaman reports:

• Dissenting Titanforged, or even followers of Helya. We know Titanforged & even Keepers could reject the word of Odyn.
• The Trolls who started to worship elune. Early Troll archeology always associates Loa with images of the moon. Which makes sense considering Loa & Wild Gods are functionally the same thing while all known Wild Gods are considered children of Elune. I suppose the Watchers expected the mortal races to worship them & not a member of the Life Pantheon. Perhaps Avaloren is populated by Haranir.

I fully expect the other side of azeroth to have a reimagined version of the horde & alliance war, with the Haranir fighting the Arathi.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I like the Light being robotic and converting, and the Naaru fit that

I've written dissertations on why I think it's a terrible idea and unfitting (redundant with the titans, doesn't mesh at all with pre-Chronicles lore, a tired trope, and another instance of forcing parity between the cosmic forces actually robbing them of depth and identity, Elden Ring did it better anyway), so I'll spare you another. I'll just say I'm not looking forward to it.

[Jolly Roger]

"that was argus who remembered pre-time"

Lots of things existed before the Dark Beyond's creation. Alleria said Argus was an existence that predated the universe, because she only really knew the universe as the Great Dark Beyond (And in some cases, the Nether). She had a Chronicle mindset of how the Cosmology worked, and tbf, most Azerothian's probably think similarly (Outside of religious beliefs, of course). So, I can't blame her for thinking this way. However, Argus predated the Dark Beyond's creation, similar to how Zovaal predated the Dark Beyond's creation, or how the Void Lords seemingly did. Heck, I wouldn't be shocked if the Titans predated the Dark Beyond's creation, and their Worldsoul origin tale is bullshit.

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Why can't both Archaedas and the Arathi be right?

im fairly certain the line was something like "before memory" or something. Alleria also doesnt have knowledge of the history of the universe.

im still convinced azeroth is a first one because
1. like 0 information on them
2. heart of azeroth allowed us to leave the maw
3. every force is obsessed

[BaumanKing]

Alleria also doesnt have knowledge of the history of the universe.

Are you so sure about that? She and her golden retriever spent a thousand years traveling across the Twisting Nether. We know very little about what they know or what they saw during that time.

[Nymrohd]

Btw on the Archive room in Khaz Algar (or somewhere, who knows where the portal leads) they chose the version of the Chamber of the Heart with the Horrific Visions portal. You think they will reuse that portal again for 11.1.5?

[huth]

Adding to that, there is already add-ons which kinda do this stuff. So yeah, it very much is not that big of a task, and definitely not on the scope of housing or other "too big to add feature' that we got and will soon get.

Because Enteroctopus Magnificus keeps failing to properly define what they're asking for. A FPS view which is apparently what they want is already available, it just isn't exactly how they'd like it.
What they ask for is FPS gameplay, which is a much bigger task.

[Zardas]

Because Enteroctopus Magnificus keeps failing to properly define what they're asking for.

He has tho :

An immersive FPS view (optional). Appropriate animations. Matching UI. That's all I want.

[huth]

He has tho :

Sure, after people pointed out multiple times that what he asks for is way bigger than what he wants.

[Zardas]

Sure, after people pointed out multiple times that what he asks for is way bigger than what he wants.

It seemed fairly clear to me. And have you explained how this is "way bigger than what he wants" ? Because, there is already some add-ons kinda doing this, so I have trouble understanding how this is a big ask.

[Enrif]

Btw on the Archive room in Khaz Algar (or somewhere, who knows where the portal leads) they chose the version of the Chamber of the Heart with the Horrific Visions portal. You think they will reuse that portal again for 11.1.5?

And that portal was there since the start, so the horrific visions must have been planed from the get go. They may not reuse the Orgrimmar/Stormwing Visions then, but perhaps a Hallowfall one? Oh, or even better, a Silvermoon/Sunwell one! that would give us a perfect segway from Khaz Algar to Quel'thalas even before other things are factored in.