The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Supertoster]

I really-really hope the next class will be a tech-based in any form. Tinker, Artificer, Engineer or whatever - I don't care.
I just want a core-fantasy class that can fit any story and makes sense in any environment, unlike DH and Evoker. I really don't want any weird stuff like Titankiller, Prismatics or something like that.

[Teriz]

Death Knight is neither an agility based tank, nor a shields tank.

It's a plate-based tank that swings around a sword.

We have 0 information how a tinker will look like in action. From the the text, it could be a amalgam of Demon Hunter and Druid that uses a change shape for their mech, the constructs can work similar to the death knight undead minion or the monk celestial summons. Guns for a tank are just a ranged option like warriors throw weapon.

So, basically, just like all the other tanks, just with the theme and flavor of tinker.

Not like other tanks. A mech suit-based tank isn't going to be swinging around swords or dodging attacks.That's the benefit of having a thematic that isn't being used by existing classes; It opens up new gameplay opportunities that has the potential of changing how the spec plays.

[Nymrohd]

So given we have a different survey about M+ that is widely reported maybe the class survey is actually bogus.

[huth]

Not like other tanks. A mech suit-based tank isn't going to be swinging around swords or dodging attacks.That's the benefit of having a thematic that isn't being used by existing classes; It opens up new gameplay opportunities that has the potential of changing how the spec plays.

That is basically just Guardian with a mech-suit skin for Bear Form.

[Teriz]

That is basically just Guardian with a mech-suit skin for Bear Form.

You think a Goblin in a mech suit is going to be clawing and biting targets?

[Mecheon]

That is basically just Guardian with a mech-suit skin for Bear Form.

I mean, I'd hardly call Guardian's whole gimmick just transforming. If anything its gimmick is being versitile, dependable and, well, Ironfur being a solid, dependable and reliable buff

All we have is they would use inventions, mech-suits and other things. How that translates into gameplay, we dunno yet. For all we know they pull a Dva from Overwatch and have a mech-suit phase and then blow the suit up to discharge some sort of thing before re-summoning a new one

[Scyth]

I really-really hope the next class will be a tech-based in any form. Tinker, Artificer, Engineer or whatever - I don't care.
I just want a core-fantasy class that can fit any story and makes sense in any environment, unlike DH and Evoker. I really don't want any weird stuff like Titankiller, Prismatics or something like that.

Odd you mentioned Evoker instead of DK tbh as they fit a lot more scenarios than DKs imo.

[Chain Chungus]

That is basically just Guardian with a mech-suit skin for Bear Form.

Instead of tinkers just do druids for all but the gnome and goblin ones are mech suits instead of animals. It will be like how the Kultirans use death magic, a different thematic interpretation of a druid but it uses the same underlying class mechanics. Or tauren paladins using the sun.

[Enrif]

So given we have a different survey about M+ that is widely reported maybe the class survey is actually bogus.

why? they can run multiple surveys at the same time

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You think a Goblin in a mech suit is going to be clawing and biting targets?

instead of biting and clawing it is slamming with metal fists or slashing with saw blades. same concept

[huth]

You think a Goblin in a mech suit is going to be clawing and biting targets?

Certainly wouldn't be surprised. But more importantly, you're not describing anything that would be a significant departure gameplay wise from what we already have. Cosmetics will get old quickly.

[Teriz]

instead of biting and clawing it is slamming with metal fists or slashing with saw blades. same concept

You honestly believe that Blizzard is going to create a mech-based tank and mainly give it fist and blade abilities?

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Certainly wouldn't be surprised. But more importantly, you're not describing anything that would be a significant departure gameplay wise from what we already have. Cosmetics will get old quickly.

You never asked how it would be different, you're the one assuming it's simply going to be a reskinned druid.

Clearly based on what we've seen in WC3, HotS, and WoW you're talking about ballistics, flame throwers, booster rockets, various explosives, gravity bombs, lasers and other tech-based abilities. Again, it being tech-based opens up mechanics that wouldn't be available for other tanks. Those different mechanics have the potential to appeal to a different crowd. Perhaps a crowd who isn't into using swords and shields and don't like looking at a bear's butt the entire time, but might like to sit inside the cockpit of a mech and launch missiles, blast targets with a flamethrower, fire a buster canon laser, launch their mech at a target with self destruct, hit targets with a rocket-propelled fist, etc.

[huth]

You honestly believe that Blizzard is going to create a mech-based tank and mainly give it fist and blade abilities?

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You never asked how it would be different, you're the one assuming it's simply going to be a reskinned druid.

Clearly based on what we've seen in WC3, HotS, and WoW you're talking about ballistics, flame throwers, booster rockets, various explosives, gravity bombs, lasers and other tech-based abilities. Again, it being tech-based opens up mechanics that wouldn't be available for other tanks. Those different mechanics have the potential to appeal to a different crowd. Perhaps a crowd who isn't into using swords and shields and don't like looking at a bear's butt the entire time, but might like to sit inside the cockpit of a mech and launch missiles, blast targets with a flamethrower, fire a buster canon laser, launch their mech at a target with self destruct, hit targets with a rocket-propelled fist, etc.

Which all aren't going to be significantly different in actual function from what we already have. Because they can't be. All tanks need to be interchangeable for gameplay reasons. That means, among other things, that all tanks will be melee.

Cosmetics won't convince anybody if the base function isn't meaningfully different. All you bring up is cosmetics.

[milkmustache]

Which all aren't going to be significantly different in actual function from what we already have. Because they can't be. All tanks need to be interchangeable for gameplay reasons. That means, among other things, that all tanks will be melee.

Cosmetics won't convince anybody if the base function isn't meaningfully different. All you bring up is cosmetics.

I don't think it's too egregious to say that a class such as Tinker may demand significant design differences from other tank classes, especially in a post Evoker WoW. The Evoker has shown us that Blizzard is not only bold enough to introduce new spell types, but a new specialization entirely. I don't think a Tinker would have ever been done in a WoW with the standard tanks... that window seems to be far wider now.

[Eurhetemec]

So given we have a different survey about M+ that is widely reported maybe the class survey is actually bogus.

On the contrary, that makes it slightly more plausible. Sending out multiple surveys at the same time, esp. to different people, is a pretty common phase in certain businesses.

And the class survey is extremely plausible, because it's absolutely not a "what forum/reddit-poster players say they want" circle-jerk, nor is it "trollface" ridiculous nonsense like fake leaks strongly tend to be, and it contains a bunch of ideas that whilst fairly obvious, aren't fan-favourite ideas, or even ideas I've seen expressed by fans (though no doubt someone somewhere has). It's especially of note that the four classes they asked more questions on are not the obvious "big four" out of the list, and that they have a couple of examples of basically the same class but with a different theme (Tinker AND Artificer, Gunner AND Gunslinger), which makes real sense for a company trying to figure things out, but is exactly the kind of think fake leaks fail to incorporate or consider.

I'm not saying it's 100% or even 80%, but it was a lot more credible than I expected.

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I expect we'll get one of them or Bard in TLT if the survey is real, they're some of the more popular requests out there and their descriptions are way more fleshed out than most of the other options.

That's my expectation too. I wouldn't be entirely shocked if we got Tinker AND Bard, given this is a sort of "capstone" expansion and it may be a longer time before we get a new expansion after it, as we'll be going into presumably a new saga (assuming WoW is still riding high).

[Nymrohd]

And I think we can reasonably expect that after the Saga is over, there will likely be a new major class rework.

[Enrif]

You honestly believe that Blizzard is going to create a mech-based tank and mainly give it fist and blade abilities?

Never said it is mainly that, did i? But, the base attacks, if it is a mech based tank, will have your standard melee based attacks, and these will be stuff like the goblins shredders saw. And it's not like other tanks have not similar things like a tinker could get. Explosions exists similar in DH spirit bomb and sigil of flame, flame thrower is quite literally the DH fel devastation and brewmasters breath of fire, gravity bombs would work similar to DKs Gorefiends Grasp, lasers are similar to Druids Moonbeam, and projectiles are covered in warriors thrown weapon and paladin shield throw.

It would reshuffle what kind of skills the tinker has compared to other tanks, but in the end, from a mechanical perspective, they are the same or very similar skills with a thematic coat of paint to make them different.

What it could get that is unique, is stuff we have seen in plunderstorm, the skill shot like skills or evokers empowered mechanic.

Could there be some new mechanics? Sure, like that their skill could be customizable as seen in the survey. But what that customization would entail is a whole different question. IT could be simple things like changing empower skills to regular aoe skills, making skillshot skill into traditional tab target skills. It likely want be so different to any other class in the game. And we have seen that with evokers, that apart from empower and a support spec, they play just like any other caster class.

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And I think we can reasonably expect that after the Saga is over, there will likely be a new major class rework.

i was thinking, that some of the survey classes would make more sense for classes that come after TLT. Like Titankiller or prismatic i could see making more sense after TLT, after the titans are dealt with. Unless the rest of TWW and Midnight will have some serious shakeups, like already dealing with the sword to make Titankillers work, which is unlikely from one of the interviews.

[Teriz]

Never said it is mainly that, did I?

If we're talking about something along the same line as existing tank specs, then yes you are saying mainly, because the other tank specs are MAINLY using melee attacks.

But, the base attacks, if it is a mech based tank, will have your standard melee based attacks, and these will be stuff like the goblins shredders saw. And it's not like other tanks have not similar things like a tinker could get. Explosions exists similar in DH spirit bomb and sigil of flame, flame thrower is quite literally the DH fel devastation and brewmasters breath of fire, gravity bombs would work similar to DKs Gorefiends Grasp, lasers are similar to Druids Moonbeam, and projectiles are covered in warriors thrown weapon and paladin shield throw.

Doubtful. For example it's quite likely that we'd see this class be able to shift from melee to ranged in auto-attack using the same mechanic that we see Mekkatorque used in that gif. For example, if you're outside of 5 yards, your mech switches from hands to guns and can hit a target outside of range. When it enters 5 yards, it switch backs to hands and hits with melee. We know this is possible because the Hunter class used to be able to do it in vanilla. No other tank can currently do that.

And no, lasers wouldn't work similar to Druid moonbeams. Both Buster Cannon and Deth Lazor operated as straight line horizontal blasts, not laser beams from the sky. Spirit Bomb isn't a similar mechanic to Tinker explosives like Xplodium Charge or Cluster Rockets. Gravity Bomb doesn't work like Gorefiend's Grasp since it has a damage component. Flamethrower wouldn't be like Fel Barrage because Tinkers could move and do other things while it was active, etc. etc.

We haven't even gotten into robotic summons like Turrets, Pocket Factories or Scrap's potential role in a tanking spec.

This is why a concept having unique mechanics and abilities is important; It can show you how and why a new concept would be different than current class offerings.

It would reshuffle what kind of skills the tinker has compared to other tanks, but in the end, from a mechanical perspective, they are the same or very similar skills with a thematic coat of paint to make them different.

See above. You're assuming they're the same. Blizzard has already shown the mechanics are different.

[huth]

Doubtful. For example it's quite likely that we'd see this class be able to shift from melee to ranged in auto-attack using the same mechanic that we see Mekkatorque used in that gif.

That's the definition of an active ability in the gif. Besides, that'd be a mechanic that makes sense for a DD, but not for a tank.

You are the one making off-kilter assumptions about what the mechanics will be.

[Teriz]

That's the definition of an active ability in the gif. Besides, that'd be a mechanic that makes sense for a DD, but not for a tank.

Not really. Hunters had a similar utility in vanilla and it wasn’t an active ability.

Also why wouldn’t it make sense for a tank if it’s a mech?

You are the one making off-kilter assumptions about what the mechanics will be.

I’m merely pointing out the mechanics that the theme demands. A highly technological mech suit isn’t going to be tanking like an undead knight, a magical bear or a Kung Fu panda. Again, the difference could interest a new group of tank players.

[Mecheon]

Which all aren't going to be significantly different in actual function from what we already have. Because they can't be. All tanks need to be interchangeable for gameplay reasons. That means, among other things, that all tanks will be melee.

Cosmetics won't convince anybody if the base function isn't meaningfully different. All you bring up is cosmetics.

Thing is though, all tanks at the moment don't share the same playstyle.

Guardian is the most generally reliable tank due to Ironfur but due to most of its damage coming from DOTs its got the slowest ramp-up time for aggro, Brewmaster's technically has slower incoming damage due to stagger and good mobility but it comes at a cost of being squishy and being punished heavily by mistakes, Blood is the crazy self-heal monster who just will not die, Vengence is a bit weaker on the defensive side early in a fight but has absurd mobility, Prot Warrior is dependant on block and can struggle against unblockable but is strong with it, and Prot paladin has a lot of shields and ways to get out of messier situations

This isn't FFXIV, tanks play differently and have different priorties