The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

The irony is, Demon Hunters are pretty much spellbreakers.

I know. Sadly some folks refuse to believe the obvious.

[Wyrt]

Ah yes, these are clearly the same picture.

[Teriz]

Nah? They're all classes. Plus like, none of those fit. Like even the close ones in like, Witch, are more like druid than they are shaman.

Moreso from the back end they're seeing what people want from the class feel. Note a lot of the shorter stuff is stuff like Warden, Necromancer or Spellbreaker with the WC3 history. Its pretty clear they're comparing stuff like "Longer description classes noting how they fit into the Warcraft Universe" with stuff like Titanslayer or Leyweaver, flat out Warcraft 3 units with unique stuff in Warden and Spellbreaker, and standard concepts in the gun pair. Note also quite a few of them are two flavours of the same idea, like Artificer and Tinker being the same concept but expressed in different ways.

Except a Warden or Spellbreaker wouldn't fit the the thematic of a titan-themed expansion. Also Warden literally has Hunter in the description alongside examples of Hunter abilities.

Witch is definitely Shaman-based. I discussed this in the other thread, but if you run through talents and abilities, Shaman have more witch-associated attributes than any other class. In addition, the description mentions Hexes and Spirit Magic, which are Shamanistic traits. The mention of Gilenian Harvest Witches could also be an indication that Worgen are getting Shaman in a future expansion.

And yes, stuff like Artificer being mentioned alongside Tinker backs this theory up, because it is quite possible that Tinker is the class and Artificer is a spec or a Hero talent of the Tinker class.

Irrelevant as far as the survey is concerned. The question is "Would you like this class" per the information provided. That nitty gritty doesn't matter

Using a bunch of red herrings to mask the actual class contenders sounds about right to me.

Yeah nah DK is not filling the necromancer gap and would not if unholy was ranged. Necromancers don't clank around in plate, they're clothies.

DK has been filling the necromancer gap for years. Blizzard isn't going to bring in an entirely new class because some rabid fans prefer cloth robes to plate robes.

Same with the spellbreaker idea, plate clad warriors wielding shields do not a third DH spec make

And the same thing applies there as well. Consider the unlikeliness of Blizzard introducing another 2-spec elf-based melee class with glaives that just happens to wear plate instead of leather.

Now consider Blizzard making the Demon Hunter class more robust and interesting by offering it a support spec and another hero talent tree. The choice seems obvious.

[Mecheon]

I know. Sadly some folks refuse to believe the obvious.

Spellbreakers are plate-clad, shield wielding warriors. Demon Hunters they ain't.

Like, in my own 'classes for WoW' stuff I've merged Spellbreaker in with Spellblade/Battlemage as a general "Magic Swordsman" type class, but they don't flip around or double jump

[Wyrt]

Spellbreakers are plate-clad, shield wielding warriors. Demon Hunters they ain't.

Like, in my own 'classes for WoW' stuff I've merged Spellbreaker in with Spellblade/Battlemage as a general "Magic Swordsman" type class, but they don't flip around or double jump

Yeah, Spellbreaker can easily be alongside a Battlemage type. They're both arcane magic using melee fighters which is something we don't have in game yet.

They definitely aren't demon hunters.

[Teriz]

Spellbreakers are plate-clad, shield wielding warriors. Demon Hunters they ain't.

And Hunters wear mail armor and can't dual-wield 1h axes, yet they still got Rexxar's abilities and talents.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, Spellbreaker can easily be alongside a Battlemage type. They're both arcane magic using melee fighters which is something we don't have in game yet.

They definitely aren't demon hunters.

Uh both Guardian Druids and Survival Hunters can perform Arcane melee thanks to their hero talents.

[Wyrt]

Uh both Guardian Druids and Survival Hunters can perform Arcane melee thanks to their hero talents.

Druids are Spellbreakers now? Maybe it'd be easier to list what isn't a Spellbreaker.

[Teriz]

Druids are Spellbreakers now? Maybe it'd be easier to list what isn't a Spellbreaker.

Where did I say they were spell breakers? I said that they can preform arcane melee, which contradicts your notion that it is absent from the class lineup.

[Wyrt]

Where did I say they were spell breakers? I said that they can preform arcane melee, which contradicts your notion that it is absent from the class lineup.

Druids are a nature class, not an arcane class.

[Teriz]

Druids are a nature class, not an arcane class.

You do know that one of their core abilities (Moonfire) is an arcane spell correct?

Did you also know that one of the Guardian hero talent trees revolves around Moonfire and Lunar Beam (another arcane spell)?

[Wyrt]

You do know that one of their core abilities (Moonfire) is an arcane spell correct?

It does arcane damage, that doesn't mean it's arcane the same way Arcane Blast is. Moonfire, and all the various moon/star spells granted by Elune which are very different from the academical study of arcane that mages do.

[Teriz]

It does arcane damage, that doesn't mean it's arcane the same way Arcane Blast is. Moonfire, and all the various moon/star spells granted by Elune which are very different from the academical study of arcane that mages do.

I'm talking about game mechanics, not headcanon. Guardian Druids are doing arcane melee damage, using melee damage to automatically trigger multiple arcane spells, and are gaining utility based around arcane magic. That's an arcane melee spec in a nutshell.

[Wyrt]

I'm talking about game mechanics, not headcanon. Guardian Druids are doing arcane melee damage, using melee damage to automatically trigger multiple arcane spells, and are gaining utility based around arcane magic. That's an arcane melee spec in a nutshell.

Elune is headcanon? What? Why would you ignore lore when talking about new classes? That's like the #1 most important part of new classes.

When people wanted demon hunters they weren't chomping at the bit to be able to light themselves on fire with immolation or transform into demons that was already available to demo warlocks, they were wanting the class because of the lore behind it.

[Supertoster]

I don't know why people like ideas like Spellbreaker and Warden. I mean, what is a spellbreaker? It is just a blood elf paladin that uses arcane instead of holy and wields exclusively shields and 1h blades. This concept is so damn limiting by itself. Its even more limiting than DH, and DH is so limiting that devs couldn't invent a third spec for it, limited the class to only two races and were forced to add random BS as hero talents with almost zero lore background. Spellbreaker is even worse than that. What's the appeal?

The same with Warden. Why should it be a class instead of spec or a hero talent? There is no depth, there is not enough of design space. It is just a mixbag of warrior and hunter abilities.

The concept should provide enough design space by itself and without cannibalizing on other classes to allow creation of unique core identity and additional identities for specs. From survey list only Tinker/Artificer fits this requirement, because literally everything else could be added to already existing classes as specs or hero talents, or cannibalizes on already existing classes too much to be unique.

[Mecheon]

Except a Warden or Spellbreaker wouldn't fit the the thematic of a titan-themed expansion. Also Warden literally has Hunter in the description alongside examples of Hunter abilities.

Witch is definitely Shaman-based. I discussed this in the other thread, but if you run through talents and abilities, Shaman have more witch-associated attributes than any other class. In addition, the description mentions Hexes and Spirit Magic, which are Shamanistic traits. The mention of Gilenian Harvest Witches could also be an indication that Worgen are getting Shaman in a future expansion.

And yes, stuff like Artificer being mentioned alongside Tinker backs this theory up, because it is quite possible that Tinker is the class and Artificer is a spec or a Hero talent of the Tinker class.

Refer some lower stuff but remember, this isn'tt necessary "This is The Last Titan class" thing, it could also refer to future expansions after TLT and the Worldsoul saga. DHs were on the drawing board ever since TBC, despite not being added until Legion after all.

Given the Witch brings up Harvest Witches and the Drust, which are associated with two different types of druid (Gilnean druids are harvest witches, the Drust ties into KT druids), plus a lot of Loa stuff also draws from priest so, no, I wouldn't say its shaman at all. If anything its a hybrid druid/priest. There's no indication of them getting shaman from this, its just a general "Hey spooky magic"

Artificer and Tinker are likely two different internal ideas on the same idea, neither one a real class at present but being theorised on

Using a bunch of red herrings to mask the actual class contenders sounds about right to me.

This is a survey to gauge player interest. Why would they have red herrings? This is to try to figure out what players are interested in and what they consider important when playing a class. To quote from a discord server I'm in

It was made by someone who actually understands how polling and analysis works, in which case the classes aren't the point, how people answer is the point. They don't give a shit if people like necromancers or bards, they care about what the results say about the overall perception of what a 'class' even is and how the playerbase views the very concept of "Class Fantasy". Its not about if bards are popular, its actually asking some other question, like (as an example) the importance of background lore existence to people's perception of class fantasy. Bard's great for that, because everything people think about bards doesn't come from Warcraft, it comes from everything else with a bard in it. Verses, say, Warden - which is a concept that (much like Demon Hunter) is envisioned pretty much entirely as an NPC class from Warcraft's lore.

That's what you want to focus on. Because that's whats important in the survey. Why are these the choices? What does selecting them mean? It is disastisfaction with current choices attempting to replicate that ideal? See also stuff like the Bard, where its mostly outside WoW

DK has been filling the necromancer gap for years. Blizzard isn't going to bring in an entirely new class because some rabid fans prefer cloth robes to plate robes.

And yet Necromancer has remained one of the more popular class choices, up there with Tinker. If DKs were truly fitting that niche, that wouldn't be the case. See also above for "what does including the class in the survey tell us"

And the same thing applies there as well. Consider the unlikeliness of Blizzard introducing another 2-spec elf-based melee class with glaives that just happens to wear plate instead of leather.

Now consider Blizzard making the Demon Hunter class more robust and interesting by offering it a support spec and another hero talent tree. The choice seems obvious.

I mean, they literately have at least two in this very survey of "Elf themed class that wears plate and fights in melee". Maybe three, depending on Warden's armor class

If DH is going to get another spec, its going to be something that fits the DH gameplay of 'oops we gave you all the mobility' and, like the other two specs, will have a unique Metamorphosis form that ties into this. The idea of a bow or crossbow spec seems more likely, or even the gunner side of things to go the Diablo 3 Demon Hunter. But Spellbreakers, the anti-magic unit from Warcraft 3 TFT that saw limited use because they were niche but had a cool design? A unit that noteably does not transform and is pretty slow and clunky? These have nothing to do with each other. Heck, Ret Paladin is closer to Spellbreakers than Demon Hunters are, especially with Ret being a mid-range class at present.

And Hunters wear mail armor and can't dual-wield 1h axes, yet they still got Rexxar's abilities and talents.

Sure they can dual-wield 1H axes? Isn't ideal, but back in the day I rocked a 1 hander sword from BFD and an axe from RFD for the longest time. Vanilla gearing was a thing, to say nothing of sets that go for a Rexxar appraoch like the ol' classic that is Beastmaster

The jumpy flippy style of Demon Hunter is nothing like how Spellbreakers were as a unit.

[Teriz]

Elune is headcanon? What? Why would you ignore lore when talking about new classes? That's like the #1 most important part of new classes.

Nice dodge. Elune isn't headcanon, your notion that a class has to be doing "academic arcane magic like a mage" to perform arcane melee IS headcanon.

Let's make this simple; When a Guardian Druid slashes multiple targets with Thrash, and thrash is dealing arcane damage, is the Guardian Druid doing arcane melee?

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know why people like ideas like Spellbreaker and Warden. I mean, what is a spellbreaker? It is just a blood elf paladin that uses arcane instead of holy and wields exclusively shields and 1h blades. This concept is so damn limiting by itself. Its even more limiting than DH, and DH is so limiting that devs couldn't invent a third spec for it, limited the class to only two races and were forced to add random BS as hero talents with almost zero lore background. Spellbreaker is even worse than that. What's the appeal?

The same with Warden. Why should it be a class instead of spec or a hero talent? There is no depth, there is not enough of design space. It is just a mixbag of warrior and hunter abilities.

The concept should provide enough design space by itself and without cannibalizing on other classes to allow creation of unique core identity and additional identities for specs. From survey list only Tinker/Artificer fits this requirement, because literally everything else could be added to already existing classes as specs or hero talents, or cannibalizes on already existing classes too much to be unique.

Good heavens, someone actually gets it!

[Enrif]

lol, that's literally Brigitte from Overwatch

I just realized, Brigitte is an artificer

from the leak:

Artificer: Melee based Tanks, Damagedealer and Healer, that use a mix of handmade machines and titan-technology. Mechanic-reactive gear is the foundation of their power, while utilising new weapon types like extendable flails or reactive shields. This class is on the frontlines of battles and protects and supports their team with their inventions.

that matches her depictions and abilites in OW

[Wyrt]

Nice dodge. Elune isn't headcanon, your notion that a class has to be doing "academic arcane magic like a mage" to perform arcane melee IS headcanon.

Let's make this simple; When a Guardian Druid slashes multiple targets with Thrash, and thrash is dealing arcane damage, is the Guardian Druid doing arcane melee?

You understand Elune and arcane are separate things right?



Elune is over there in the Life/Nature circle and Arcane is down in the Order circle. They're entirely different realms of magic.

[Enrif]

i got a reply from Chromie.de regarding the leaked survey:

Neben größeren Content Creator, die es glauben und auch so einordnen, hier nochmal ein Tweet, mit einem Screenshot aus einer weiteren Umfrage (https://x.com/ChromieDe/status/1868911240921141506). Ja, die Umfrage ist echt, ich hab sie selbst und mein Team ebenfalls gesehen und verifiziert, sogar nun mehr als nur von einem Spieler.

translation:
In addition to larger content creators who believe it and classify it that way, here is another tweet with a screenshot from another survey (https://x.com/ChromieDe/status/1868911240921141506). Yes, the survey is real, I have seen it myself and my team too, verifying it, from now more then just one player.

the tweet from the link

Ich wurde aufgefordert hierzu Stellung zu nehmen, ob das echt oder Fake ist.

- Es ist echt, ich konnte den Link nun durch mehr als einen verifizieren!
- Blizzard Umfragen sehen schon länger so aus, auch im Bereich Diablo, wo ich selber welche bekomme.
- Das Deutsch in diesen ist seit jeher grausam und sagt nichts darüber aus.
- Ich habe 2 weitere Umfragen (Housing & Verkaufsmodelle) die genau so aussehen (Bild)
- Die Umfragen werden über den Dienst YouGov geleitet

translation:

I was requested to clarify if the leak is real or fake

- it is real, i was able to verify the link from more than one source
- blizzard survey are looking like that for a some time, also from the Diablo franchise, from which i myself get some surveys
- the german used in these are atrocious for a long time and do not qualify anything about it.
- i have 2 additional surveys (housing & payment models) that looks exactly like that (image)
- The survey was made by the YouGov provider

[Jaggler]

You understand Elune and arcane are separate things right?


Elune is over there in the Life/Nature circle and Arcane is down in the Order circle. They're entirely different realms of magic.

Well it's not like beings can't cross over/influence or be influenced by other realms. Prime example would be Eonar, who is a Titan, but is clearly Life influenced, or Srageras in terms of Fel.

Naaru switch between Light and Void.

The different forces don't have hard, uncrossable barriers.