The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

Now you're cooking. I don't think there was anything special about the portion of Outland that survived that couldn't apply to the Gorian continent. Unless I missed something in the lore.

But imagining a Gorian Empire that survived. Perhaps instead of an Ogre ruling class like we saw in WoD, orcs and ogres instead cooperated and developed into a more advanced Mok'nathal society even in the fringes of the Twisting Nether. Perhaps too parallel to the Arathi Empire?

It could be a version of the Apexis Empire from WoD, as I believe we don't know what happened to the main timeline's version. The WoD version exploded due to a war between the Ogres and Arrakoa, but I could also see them recontextualizing that to them being sucked through time/space.

I do think the devs may be sitting on the Apexis as a way to get back into Ogres, Arrakoa and perhaps the Lightbound all at once when the time is right. I can't see them going for Ogrezonia over that potential, but..

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Very late thought but I just realized it's odd that we don't have Alliance and Horde themed campsites for the warband. Maybe it's just because they have to be crossfaction, but maybe they are working on HD versions of Stormwind/Org assets?

[milkmustache]

Very late thought but I just realized it's odd that we don't have Alliance and Horde themed campsites for the warband. Maybe it's just because they have to be crossfaction, but maybe they are working on HD versions of Stormwind/Org assets?

I still think there's incredible potential for the Durotar & Elwynn zones to be revamped into their respective housing zones to allow a similar seamless phasing. This could give us an updated SW & Org as well.

But the realistic side of me thinks maybe they're trying to be overall faction agnostic? They don't want us to view our warbands as Horde or Ally, but neutral? Which I think is their general direction and also sort of ignores what people really want from Horde/Alliance nowadays.

[Darkarath]

I don't see us going back to Outland or Draenor anytime soon. I mean, Outland was already revamped as Draenor, in a way, and it has been implied that both Outland and Draenor are dying out. Maybe as patch content and I find that possibility unlikely.

Blizzard seems more focused on giving us breadcrumbs of potentially two new continents on Azeroth, plus whatever old zones they want to revamp. I guess that Midnight and TLT will be a kind of ''test'' to see if they can keep making new expansions based on old content. I bet that Midnight and TLT will be VERY succesful. Not necessarily because they are revamps but because Midnight brings Housing and TLT will be the end of the WSS. So I guess that Blizzard will indeed keep revamping old zones as new expansions, and I love it.

Nevertheless, I think that they will be introducing new lands from time to time. After Midnight and TLT (two expansions of revamps), I am pretty sure that we will visit a new continent. Probably the Arathi Empire lands, whether if they are in Avaloren or in another place. It will also make sense that after we defeat the Void and the Titans, the Light will feel empowered and try to take over, but we will see... The Legion will also be in a decent shape by then, especially if Sargeras survives TLT, but I believe that they will come back later.

[Khaza-R]

I still think there's incredible potential for the Durotar & Elwynn zones to be revamped into their respective housing zones to allow a similar seamless phasing. This could give us an updated SW & Org as well.

But the realistic side of me thinks maybe they're trying to be overall faction agnostic? They don't want us to view our warbands as Horde or Ally, but neutral? Which I think is their general direction and also sort of ignores what people really want from Horde/Alliance nowadays.

One thought I just had a on Stormwind revamp to make it slightly more realistic but since they share a majority of the same assests a hypothetical Strat megadungeon would double up on a SW revamp outside of a handful of unique buidlings. We don't even know that Strat is on the table for Midnight but its interesting to ponder at least.

I don't see us going back to Outland or Draenor anytime soon. I mean, Outland was already revamped as Draenor, in a way, and it has been implied that both Outland and Draenor are dying out. Maybe as patch content and I find that possibility unlikely.

Blizzard seems more focused on giving us breadcrumbs of potentially two new continents on Azeroth, plus whatever old zones they want to revamp. I guess that Midnight and TLT will be a kind of ''test'' to see if they can keep making new expansions based on old content. I bet that Midnight and TLT will be VERY succesful. Not necessarily because they are revamps but because Midnight brings Housing and TLT will be the end of the WSS. So I guess that Blizzard will indeed keep revamping old zones as new expansions, and I love it.

Nevertheless, I think that they will be introducing new lands from time to time. After Midnight and TLT (two expansions of revamps), I am pretty sure that we will visit a new continent. Probably the Arathi Empire lands, whether if they are in Avaloren or in another place. It will also make sense that after we defeat the Void and the Titans, the Light will feel empowered and try to take over, but we will see... The Legion will also be in a decent shape by then, especially if Sargeras survives TLT, but I believe that they will come back later.

I don't disagree at all. I think returning to Outland would be incredibly unlikely (but cool). I just don't see where they could possible fit it in during the WSS when its already jammed full. Also nothing saying they had to stay on Outland. They could of fled to a entirely new world as well.

I think we were more discussing the hypothetical of a group surviving from Draenor. Advancing and not being just ragtag refugees. Just like how the Arathi were introduced in TWW despite no signs of us going to Avaloren soon. I think its possible we could simply be introduced to this concept maybe while dealing with K'aresh.

[Cheezits]

One thought I just had a on Stormwind revamp to make it slightly more realistic but since they share a majority of the same assests a hypothetical Strat megadungeon would double up on a SW revamp outside of a handful of unique buidlings. We don't even know that Strat is on the table for Midnight but its interesting to ponder at least.

There are so many updated yet unused human assets in the files that it makes me think there has to be some extent of human representation in the next few years, be it Stormwind, Lordaeron being a part of Midnight's zone contents, or both. There's a possibility that it's for Borean Tundra in TLT but...

I do think Stratholme and Deatholme have a major chance to be a part of Midnight to touch on the scourge themes and give Calia and the Forsaken something to do, it would also be an easy way to add new themes to the expansion to diversify it beyond Troll, Elf and Void.

Troll, Elf, Forsaken and Void (Ethereals?) would fit the four launch renown idea as well.

[milkmustache]

There are so many updated yet unused human assets in the files that it makes me think there has to be some extent of human representation in the next few years, be it Stormwind, Lordaeron being a part of Midnight's zone contents, or both. There's a possibility that it's for Borean Tundra in TLT but...

I want to agree with you, but seeing there's also a similar amount of unused orc assets, I'm inclined to believe they're for the housing system.

[Cheezits]

I want to agree with you, but seeing there's also a similar amount of unused orc assets, I'm inclined to believe they're for the housing system.

The orc assets are more general structures and fences/stairs while the human assets are 1:1 with existing world props: there is an HD barn, inn, and watchtower model. They could technically be furniture items you can place outdoors but they feel more like things that will be used in the world.

[Joshuaj]

Huh. Hearthstone dropped this. Tortollan... Titan... something... city right inside the Un'goro crater. Commence tinfoil mode!

What's there to speculate? It's a Titan city in Hearthstone. Nothing shocking about that.

At best, you can maybe make comments on the pillars looking like they're empowered by Azerite, or the hexagonal pattern of the city, but that's it.

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The orc assets are more general structures and fences/stairs while the human assets are 1:1 with existing world props: there is an HD barn, inn, and watchtower model. They could technically be furniture items you can place outdoors but they feel more like things that will be used in the world.

Are you suggesting they MIGHT be revamping the starting zones of WoW? Assuming they aren't doing a full world revamp right off the bat of course?

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I don't see us going back to Outland or Draenor anytime soon. I mean, Outland was already revamped as Draenor, in a way, and it has been implied that both Outland and Draenor are dying out. Maybe as patch content and I find that possibility unlikely.

Blizzard seems more focused on giving us breadcrumbs of potentially two new continents on Azeroth, plus whatever old zones they want to revamp. I guess that Midnight and TLT will be a kind of ''test'' to see if they can keep making new expansions based on old content. I bet that Midnight and TLT will be VERY succesful. Not necessarily because they are revamps but because Midnight brings Housing and TLT will be the end of the WSS. So I guess that Blizzard will indeed keep revamping old zones as new expansions, and I love it.

Nevertheless, I think that they will be introducing new lands from time to time. After Midnight and TLT (two expansions of revamps), I am pretty sure that we will visit a new continent. Probably the Arathi Empire lands, whether if they are in Avaloren or in another place. It will also make sense that after we defeat the Void and the Titans, the Light will feel empowered and try to take over, but we will see... The Legion will also be in a decent shape by then, especially if Sargeras survives TLT, but I believe that they will come back later.

"Outland was already revamped as Draenor in a way"

That's not at all connected, and you know it.

[Cheezits]

Are you suggesting they MIGHT be revamping the starting zones of WoW? Assuming they aren't doing a full world revamp right off the bat of course?

I think a revamp of Stormwind and Orgrimmar, and some areas surrounding them to match the new housing zones, may be happening versus a whole world revamp or full revamp of all the starting zones. Maybe a new NPE that covers all the races that live nearby those areas, though I don't like that idea and would much prefer racial starting zones to come back.

[Darkarath]

"Outland was already revamped as Draenor in a way"

That's not at all connected, and you know it.

Draenor and Outland are not connected? I won't even bother.

Sure, encourage Blizzard to do a third version of the same continent.

[Joshuaj]

Draenor and Outland are not connected? I won't even bother.

Sure, encourage Blizzard to do a third version of the same continent.

It's an AU version of what Outland used to look like. That's it.

Goregrond doesn't look like Blades Edge, there is no Netherstorm on Draenor, SMV is a forest on Draenor compared to Outland, and don't get me started on Tanaan Jungle.

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People speculate about Amitus all the time.

And Gadgetzan the way it looks in HS.

And and Y'shaarj before he was in WoW.

And the Ancient One.

The idea of a city suddenly existing within Un'goro Crater is tantalising, and why it looks the way it does.

Cause Amitus is a Hearthstone original that may or may not be in the Canon eventually, Gadgetzen is SUPPOSED to look like it's Hearthstone counterpart in the canon, Y'Shaarj's design was shown in HS the same way N'Zoth's was (which is cool imo), and the Ancient One is a unique entity that may or may not be in the canon.

We knew the Titans had a whole Manifold plan going on in the canon. I just don't see what's so fascinating about this city in particular. Though, I'd love to see what your thoughts are on it.

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Seriously. I'm intrigued.

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I think a revamp of Stormwind and Orgrimmar, and some areas surrounding them to match the new housing zones, may be happening versus a whole world revamp or full revamp of all the starting zones. Maybe a new NPE that covers all the races that live nearby those areas, though I don't like that idea and would much prefer racial starting zones to come back.

City revamps to make them look bigger and cooler,
starting with SW and Orgrimmar (namely to match revamped Silvermoon)? Yes please.

[milkmustache]

City revamps to make them look bigger and cooler,
starting with SW and Orgrimmar (namely to match revamped Silvermoon)? Yes please.

It'd be cool to use Neighborhoods to sort of expand cities into spilling outside of the city proper.

Scatterings of houses outside the walls of Stormwind, a larger clump in Goldshire. Same for Org and Razor Hill. Make those capital areas really, really, feel like capital, especially now that there's a legitimate reason for there to be a lot of houses there. They can change models and decoration upon phasing in, etc.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

City revamps to make them look bigger and cooler,
starting with SW and Orgrimmar (namely to match revamped Silvermoon)? Yes please.

Please restore Orgrimmar to its former glory. A city in a desert where life is good, with lush oases and houses made of terracotta and wood. Make it a vacation map, not an impenetrable fortress with metal spikes everywhere. Like this :

[Joshuaj]

Please restore Orgrimmar to its former glory. A city in a desert where life is good, with lush oases and houses made of terracotta and wood. Make it a vacation map, not an impenetrable fortress with metal spikes everywhere. Like this :

https://i.imgur.com/ZoO8it3.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/NwVBN8s.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/zlV0NGA.jpeg

So you want something like Dawntrail's city, but with more desert/canyon elements?

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

So you want something like Dawntrail's city, but with more desert/canyon elements?

I don't know Dawntrail. All I want is for Orgrimmar to rival Stormwind in terms of architecture. A capital city in an arid desert should be full of life to make it a pleasant place to live. As orcs are basically a shamanic people, I find this kind of architecture much more coherent. Also, it's the capital of an entire faction, so it should be rich and luxurious, not look like a crappy war camp. They should have artists and a deep culture with unique designs, reducing them to wooden and metal huts with spikes is so reductive. I can see that no one wants to live in the Horde neighborhood, everyone's afraid of being stuck in this frankly bad design, including me.

[Viridiel]

It could be a version of the Apexis Empire from WoD, as I believe we don't know what happened to the main timeline's version. The WoD version exploded due to a war between the Ogres and Arrakoa, but I could also see them recontextualizing that to them being sucked through time/space.

I do think the devs may be sitting on the Apexis as a way to get back into Ogres, Arrakoa and perhaps the Lightbound all at once when the time is right. I can't see them going for Ogrezonia over that potential, but..

I had a semi-serious theory that the ogres would manage to stave off Yrel until that timeline collapses and they're thrown across time and space to end up on the other side of Azeroth in ancient times. The main point was that Yrel and her followers ended up inside the Beledar in Hallowfall, which I'm not really married to anymore after the reveal that the Beledar likely grew inside Azeroth's crust.

But I'd still really like to see something happen with the Gorian and Apexis empires. I believe the Apexis Empire actually imploded itself and there's no clear reason for that to be different in the AU since it happened before the timeline was created/invaded, but the Apexis are the ones who taught ogres magic in the first place so there could've been a sect that split off to the ogre continent and either managed to survive the destruction of Draenor or ended up getting sucked through time and space.

My preference would be for a group of skalaxi arakkoa to have invaded the ogre continent to get revenge on them after they killed the arakkoa who taught them magic. Eventually the ogres tried to harness a titan artifact to destroy them, and their clash ended up sending the entire continent through time and space to end up on the other side of Azeroth. I'd also like to go full reverse Dark Crystal and have some of the arakkoa and ogres fuse together into an urSkek-like race (or harpies??), but only some because we should have some ogres remain to explain some inconsistencies in their lore, and I don't think we've ever seen an uncorrupted skalax. The skalax combine Arcane and Shadow magic which could be an excellent parallel to the Arathi's Holy Flame being the combination of Arcane and Holy magic.

Alternatively, there should be some sort of remnant of Goria underneath Shattrath in Outland. The city was swallowed by the earth by orc shaman rather than being reduced completely to rubble. I would rather have the ogre continent explored, but that's always an option.

I feel like this sort of thing could be really unpopular because it's dealing with WoD lore and further messing with the established lore regarding interaction between Azeroth and Draenor, but I think it would be worse to leave the Draenor empires completely unexplored in-game.

[Cheezits]

I had a semi-serious theory that the ogres would manage to stave off Yrel until that timeline collapses and they're thrown across time and space to end up on the other side of Azeroth in ancient times. The main point was that Yrel and her followers ended up inside the Beledar in Hallowfall, which I'm not really married to anymore after the reveal that the Beledar likely grew inside Azeroth's crust.

I really like the theory that the Gorians warped, but I'm not sure how that would've led to the Lightbound going inside Beledar. Which is still one of my favorite theories so I'm waiting to see if all the Titan reports on the crystals are a red herring from the devs, ala Xe'ra's prophecy in Legion.

I do think the concept art of the stairs going into Beledar may have been a lowkey spoiler to it being a ship.

But I'd still really like to see something happen with the Gorian and Apexis empires. I believe the Apexis Empire actually imploded itself and there's no clear reason for that to be different in the AU since it happened before the timeline was created/invaded, but the Apexis are the ones who taught ogres magic in the first place so there could've been a sect that split off to the ogre continent and either managed to survive the destruction of Draenor or ended up getting sucked through time and space.

Absolutely, we need way more Gorian and Apexis/Arrakoa content in the game and the lore nerds on the dev team clearly had some ideas when they wrote Chronicles 2. I think Blizz actually has some longterm ideas cooking for Ogres- they rarely use them if ever these days (besides Exiles Reach, which still shows Gorian culture to an extent) and whenever they do it's for something interesting. A woman ogre in Traveler and then Mug'zee is clearly an intelligent two-head in Undermine.

Arrakoa I'm not sure on how much Blizzard plans to play with, but I think there may be something cooking for an eventual "flying island" expansion that the Dragon Isles DIDN'T end up being. They would fit the bill to a considerable extent and would be a 2x nostalgia thing for TBC and WODbabies (which is a crazy thing to think about) while having an interesting angle on the Light/Sun that matches up with how the Arathi's Flame is portrayed. Maybe even the same kind of thing?

I think we are far enough past WoD for people to appreciate the good it brought, its not a "black mark" on WoW the same was Shadowlands is, just a cannibalized expansion. And Ogres and Arrakoa are still, at the end of the day, ultimately TBC content.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I don't know Dawntrail. All I want is for Orgrimmar to rival Stormwind in terms of architecture. A capital city in an arid desert should be full of life to make it a pleasant place to live. As orcs are basically a shamanic people, I find this kind of architecture much more coherent. Also, it's the capital of an entire faction, so it should be rich and luxurious, not look like a crappy war camp. They should have artists and a deep culture with unique designs, reducing them to wooden and metal huts with spikes is so reductive. I can see that no one wants to live in the Horde neighborhood, everyone's afraid of being stuck in this frankly bad design, including me.

I think expecting the Horde capital to be "rich and luxurious" is kind of contrary the values of the Horde. Even in a peaceful state, I don't think that would be the draw of an orcish city nor coherent with orcish values compared to, say, "rugged but homely". You're talking about deep culture with unique designs, but your apparent intention is to associate them with a style that's incongruous with their culture.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

I think expecting the Horde capital to be "rich and luxurious" is kind of contrary the values of the Horde. Even in a peaceful state, I don't think that would be the draw of an orcish city nor coherent with orcish values compared to, say, "rugged but homely". You're talking about deep culture with unique designs, but your apparent intention is to associate them with a style that's incongruous with their culture.

By rich I mean that it's supposed to be prosperous, and luxurious in the sense of comfortable living and nature. I don't think this is “contrary” to Horde values.

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Have a look at the AI artworks. You'll understand.

[Viridiel]

I really like the theory that the Gorians warped, but I'm not sure how that would've led to the Lightbound going inside Beledar. Which is still one of my favorite theories so I'm waiting to see if all the Titan reports on the crystals are a red herring from the devs, ala Xe'ra's prophecy in Legion.

I do think the concept art of the stairs going into Beledar may have been a lowkey spoiler to it being a ship.

My idea was that the timeline becomes increasingly unstable as the Army of the Light crusades across the universe, eventually resulting in its collapse. Xe'ra protects the Army by encasing them in crystalline light and the Gorians protect themselves with a magical barrier, both being hurtled to Azeroth where the timeline was split off but ending up at different locations and times. It's completely baseless and unclear if it's even possible because they can't seem to decide how time travel and alternate timelines work, but it could work.

I actually hate time travel and alternate timelines, but unfortunately we might need more of it to resolve the mess that's been created. I don't mind Yrel in general so it would be best to resolve any timeline garbage and get her into this timeline once and for all.