The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[huth]

"Kids" - teenagers - not being into MMORPGs doesn't feel quite right, when I can walk into any local gaming or anime convention and see XIV cosplay and fan merch everywhere. That game is extremely popular with younger players.

That might have more to do with Final Fantasy as a franchise that by now spans more than 20 games than XIV in particular though.

Not every story is going to appeal to you. That's not automatically a fault of the author, people just have different interests. I don't care about the things you named and would not be invested in those stories, either. I find another world revamp highly unappealing as a concept, aside from it being unlikely to be an economically viable path.

[rainhard]

You are bang on, my baby brother who has only just turned 20 asked me to give him a recruit a friend a few weeks ago so I obliged and he checked out the new content and his response was literally "This is shit" he quit a few hours in stating it was boring and confusing and asked me about the old game, I pointed him in the direction of the Classic servers and I've not heard from him since as he's enjoying the challenging aspect of it and the fact its abit more straight forward and not too big.

A friend of mine to start retail and for it to work had to begin guided by me nearly always so that i can make the complicated things simpler for him and at the same time start at the pre patch of an expansion so that he sees its progression from the start which is also very important for new retail players, although he also tried classic afterwards and couldn't stand the slow pace of it (DH main what can i say), but point is retail requires a lot to be new player friendly.

[Mecheon]

XIV does have a different vibe to it that does attract a difference audience. It has its tight character focused storyline that very specifically is telling a single story. No matter what starting zone (of three) you pick, you're eventually going to be pushed along to the same storyline as everyone else. The thing is though, XIV's story is surprisingly dang good and makes the best of these limitations. Sure there's the MMO, but the main part of it is the story. Hardly a unique thing (ToR's also a bit sold on that, though I dunno how good the story is)

WoW on the other hand has made its main thing the dungeon and raiding experience which is a bit of a different thing. As WoW folks say, the game pretty much doesn't start until endgame where you've got your dungeons and whatnot. Cutting down the sheer number of quests and forcing everyone along a single storyline is certainly a Choice they could do, but its also basically against how WoW's done basically everything in its history

I'd also argue WoW's sheer reputation as having The World of Warcraft player base. Like it or not, a lot of people's opinion of WoW players is 'you are going to go into a dungeon you know nothing about and someone is going to scream at you and kick you immediately'. Which, isn't exactly wrong and is sort of bred from the above. The absolute hardcores in XIV are pretty much kept to their own stuff that most people won't ever touch, but WoW definitely wants you to try to get there and you'll have to deal with them everywhere. The fact a ton of those "Leaving WoW going to XIV" videos mentioned the community should tell a lot. WoW's community keeps people away from the game.

(also just saying, XIV's free trial including Heavensward kind of helps things along because HW is a fan favourite for a reason. Was even more effective at just 2.0 when it basically left you at the mother of all cliffhangers to get you to go all in on HW and get rewarded for that purchase. I sure fell for that one hard)

[Cheezits]

All Blizzard has to do is drop a statistic on new players for the endless "new people don't play WoW lol" discussion to die. I wish they would because it's honestly tiresome, based entirely on conjecture, and goes against Blizzard's active developments towards content accommodating new players.

"WoW is dead" discussion in disguise.

[Khaza-R]

"Kids" - teenagers - not being into MMORPGs doesn't feel quite right, when I can walk into any local gaming or anime convention and see XIV cosplay and fan merch everywhere. That game is extremely popular with younger players.

I am sure FFXIV's demo still skews to the 28-34 range. Even if its slightly younger than WoW.

Traditional MMOs with a sub are dinosaurs. F2P "Open world ARPGs" are slowly supplanting them and more popular with younger gamers. Which is fully what I expect Riot's MMO to be.

- - - Updated - - -

All Blizzard has to do is drop a statistic on new players for the endless "new people don't play WoW lol" discussion to die. I wish they would because it's honestly tiresome, based entirely on conjecture, and goes against Blizzard's active developments towards content accommodating new players.

"WoW is dead" discussion in disguise.

In the context of speculating a new expansion, its sort of irrelevant either way. A revamp can both be rewardingly nostalgic and new player-friendly simultaneously. They aren't mutually exclusive.

[Auxis]

The bar for me in terms of QoL is letting daggers be transmogged with 1h weapons and vice versa. Anything more than that is a bonus.

Ffs we can transmog WANDS into 1h weapons, what the hell is the excuse for no daggers? "It'll make animations look goofy" we have floppy fish, murloc backpacks, yeti onesies, frying pans, magnifying glasses, the list on.

[Dracullus]

The bar for me in terms of QoL is letting daggers be transmogged with 1h weapons and vice versa. Anything more than that is a bonus.

Ffs we can transmog WANDS into 1h weapons, what the hell is the excuse for no daggers? "It'll make animations look goofy" we have floppy fish, murloc backpacks, yeti onesies, frying pans, magnifying glasses, the list on.

That's one thing. but in general transmog restrictions for obtaining stuff needs to be completely lifted. It's not 2016 when you had just old raids/dungeons to farm, now there is shit ton things to collect every patch and restrictions just make you stressful you dropped something ultra rare on wrong character. We should be able to collect everything on single toon.

[Nymrohd]

That's one thing. but in general transmog restrictions for obtaining stuff needs to be completely lifted. It's not 2016 when you had just old raids/dungeons to farm, now there is shit ton things to collect every patch and restrictions just make you stressful you dropped something ultra rare on wrong character. We should be able to collect everything on single toon.

if anything, I'm more likely to play an alt if I have a great mog for them than to play them in order to get a decent mog

[Jiastanna]

I'd argue that a revamp doesn't actually make for much of a newcomer experience at all.

I've expressed this position before but: by necessity a revamp of this sort is targeted at veteran players. When you make EPL and WPL into a hilly green zone with ongoing farming efforts; that is only exciting for veteran players. It's made interesting because a veteran player knows the history of the area, they (obviously, assumptions) saw it fall in WC3, they saw the argents struggle to hold the line in Vanilla, they saw the fall of the Scourge in Wrath, the beginnings of recovery and healing in Cata, and that green zone represents a payoff for a 20 year plotline.

Absolutely true. IMO WoWs base has always been Warcraft 1-3, especially WarIII for obvious reasons. Without that story, WoW wouldn´t have those 20 year old plotlines people could connect to. Therefore Blizz is in dire need of a new base to build Warcrafts universe on. They have been terrible at telling a cohesive storyline through expansions, often pushing central elements to books outside the game. I don´t see many other ways to get a new playerbase that cares for Warcrafts universe other than creating a bigger singleplayer experience with a decent storyline in multiple arcs, e.g. WarIV in the style of Starcraft IIs campaign. If they are not fond of RTS (which is very much niche today too), then resort to another genre. But it has to be a singleplayer experience with a focus on telling a cohesive and coherent story with multiple heros and baddies. Even Hearthstone is often better at creating such characters than WoW lately.

But WoW also has to return to the MoP-BfA way of telling a story through cinematics and ingame cinematics. The Shadowlands cutscenes often feel very generic and unrefined for obvious reasons. But DF is missing in that departement as well. WoD, Legion and BfA were best at that. There are a lot of very good ingame cinematics in those. Some of them really hit hard too: Varians death, AU Velens sacrifice... Also BfA with many real cinematics of Saurfang. I miss those things in DF.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Absolutely true. IMO WoWs base has always been Warcraft 1-3, especially WarIII for obvious reasons. Without that story, WoW wouldn´t have those 20 year old plotlines people could connect to. Therefore Blizz is in dire need of a new base to build Warcrafts universe on. They have been terrible at telling a cohesive storyline through expansions, often pushing central elements to books outside the game. I don´t see many other ways to get a new playerbase that cares for Warcrafts universe other than creating a bigger singleplayer experience with a decent storyline in multiple arcs, e.g. WarIV in the style of Starcraft IIs campaign. If they are not fond of RTS (which is very much niche today too), then resort to another genre. But it has to be a singleplayer experience with a focus on telling a cohesive and coherent story with multiple heros and baddies. Even Hearthstone is often better at creating such characters than WoW lately.

But WoW also has to return to the MoP-BfA way of telling a story through cinematics and ingame cinematics. The Shadowlands cutscenes often feel very generic and unrefined for obvious reasons. But DF is missing in that departement as well. WoD, Legion and BfA were best at that. There are a lot of very good ingame cinematics in those. Some of them really hit hard too: Varians death, AU Velens sacrifice... Also BfA with many real cinematics of Saurfang. I miss those things in DF.

Those uber cinematics you are talking about aren't as easy to create compared to the cutscenes we sometimes see and well don't have the player character in them either. I also feel like people are ignoring some of the character moment for Ebyssian, Wrathion, Sabellian

[Luck4]

Although I've to say that I strongly disagree with a World Revamp targeting mostly the leveling experience, Nixxiom made a great video that talks mostly about it, and how the current experience droves away new players.



With that said, I still believe that nearly all zones, after the leveling experience, should be made and scaled for level cap and endgame activities, such as World Quests, Rares, Community Events, Invasions, Campaign Quests, Treasures, Secrets, Collectables, and everything that level cap zones have these days, even if Blizzard decides to set up a rotation.

[micwini]

Having been on team world revamp since WoD/Legion, I feel like this time it's going to be it for sure.

[Raetary]

With that said, I still believe that nearly all zones, after the leveling experience, should be made and scaled for level cap and endgame activities, such as World Quests, Rares, Community Events, Invasions, Campaign Quests, Treasures, Secrets, Collectables, and everything that level cap zones have these days, even if Blizzard decides to set up a rotation.

Well yes, that's the entire idea of a new revamp.

To utilize the features and tech they have available now so that the mistakes of Catacylsm don't get repeated.

[cocomen2]

"Kids" - teenagers - not being into MMORPGs doesn't feel quite right, when I can walk into any local gaming or anime convention and see XIV cosplay and fan merch everywhere. That game is extremely popular with younger players

LoL, you compared FFXIV with your regular MMO's? while it basically arcade-fetish-fest, add housing and make every model in WoW sexy, then we gonna talk, there big difference between people sexually attracted to Vulpera than to Ahri, same goes for a Dwarfs = in WoW it most not popular pick while in Lineage 2 dwarf females on 3rd spot from a top, google difference between WoW f.Dwarf and L2 f.Dwarf, even that ugly ff14 Elin race are more popular than shitload of WoW races, Blood Elfs or Riot = way of the WoW.

But as long WoW remains raid-lobby-jerker, their playerbase gonna dwine, 90% of players hate M+ and raids so deal with it.

[Jiastanna]

Those uber cinematics you are talking about aren't as easy to create compared to the cutscenes we sometimes see and well don't have the player character in them either. I also feel like people are ignoring some of the character moment for Ebyssian, Wrathion, Sabellian

I know, still didn´t keep them from making those. It might be easier doing those, but I can hardly take Sylvanas in some of them seriously, because of the standard talk emote she is doing.

Ebyssians story has nice moments, but they also use some of those "uber cinematics" as well, contributing to emotional moments, because the standard models cannot express emotions very well.

[micwini]

Just throwing some stuff out there, what I would love to see in a revamp
11.0: World revamp: Both EK and Kalimdor revamped (including cata zones). Including remade level experience to better lead in new players + zones used for content at max level. For leveling: Ground mounts only, but with a new system akin to dragonriding. Dragonriding type flying at max level. You can choose which zones to level in for your 70-80 journey.

Raid: Stratholme
Last boss: High General XXXX of the Scarlet Crusade

11.1: New zone: Tel'Abim
Raid: The Dread fleet
Last boss: Dread Admiral Nightsquall

11.2: Revamped Northrend
Raid: Blue Dragonflight prison
Last boss: Chromatus

11.3: Revamped Vashj'ir
Raid: Abyssal Maw
Last boss: Queen Aszhara

[Makabreska]

Although I've to say that I strongly disagree with a World Revamp targeting mostly the leveling experience, Nixxiom made a great video that talks mostly about it, and how the current experience droves away new players.

Fuck sake. These retarded clickbaits is the exact reason I don't click on vids like this.

[Nymrohd]

I'd say if WoW wanted to engage new players, finding ways to make its vast library of content evergreen through timewalking with visual updates where needed would be the goal. That way new players would have so much content they could do and if it is changed to the modern paradigm it would be much easier to just drop in and play without having constant repetition. A revamp is far more so targeted to veteran players who want to see the world's progression.

[Darkarath]

I'd say if WoW wanted to engage new players, finding ways to make its vast library of content evergreen through timewalking with visual updates where needed would be the goal. That way new players would have so much content they could do and if it is changed to the modern paradigm it would be much easier to just drop in and play without having constant repetition. A revamp is far more so targeted to veteran players who want to see the world's progression.

I think that this approach would be quite ineffective to bring new players to WoW. Hell, new players would not even understand the concept of Timewalking itself. The main problems of the game to bring new players would remain:

- Too big.
- Too late to catch up with the game.
- Too complex.
- Too old.
- Too expensive (subscription model).
- Too many addons needed to play.
- Not casual enough.
- Not enough focus on single player content.
- Limited to PC.

[Raetary]

To expand on what i said in my previous post.

The shelved legacy content wouldn't be just be sitting in the game files either, they could expand Timewalking to be its own pillar of optional endgame content.

Imagine caverns of time, but its a massive Timewalking hub where each corridor leads to a dungeon, raid or even zone, all portals rotate on a (bi/tri) weekly basis and we get various daily and weekly quests to run old raids and dungeons, even revisit old zones and redo old questlines for rewards and repuation.