The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

Nah, theres gonna be Cata classic soon most likely. Update it all and remove any quest or environmental feature mentioning Cata.

If I were a wow dev who worked on chromie time & would quit. You're suggesting they'd just trash something they worked several years perfecting just to throw it away 2 years after finishing it.

Retail players are not going to respond positively to being told to "play Classic" to them wanting to level in Cata era.

You're suggesting they're going to do everything they did in Cataclysm, when WoW is making considerably less money then it did when they were developing Cataclysm: Keep in mind the Development of Cataclysm was happening during the game's peak popularity. A World Revamp is likely but they're certainly not going to do it to the same degree, especially not in the ways they now admit were mistakes (IE, creating a new leveling experience)

[Chickat]

If I were a wow dev who worked on chromie time & would quit. You're suggesting they'd just trash something they worked several years perfecting just to throw it away 2 years after finishing it.

Retail players are not going to respond positively to being told to "play Classic" to them wanting to level in Cata era.

You're suggesting they're going to do everything they did in Cataclysm, when WoW is making considerably less money then it did when they were developing Cataclysm: Keep in mind the Development of Cataclysm was happening during the game's peak popularity. A World Revamp is likely but they're certainly not going to do it to the same degree, especially not in the ways they now admit were mistakes (IE, creating a new leveling experience)

Chromie time is not that much work and what work was done was worth it for the years it was active. bad take imo.

[Hyde]

Not opposed, but I feel like Lorewalking would do better as a 2ndary Proff to replace Archaeology. A way to visit past content and "collect" lore through texts, items, doing legacy content, exploration, etc. It might be a little too big for a 2ndary Proff so perhaps it should be a system to its own.

- - - Updated - - -

Afrasiabi on the Old Gods in 2018:

"I would say that we should consider them dead. But! As with all things in World of Warcraft and in general in the Warcraft universe, death is not always final. Therefore, if there is the coming of the Old Gods, or some precursor of the Old Gods appear from the eternal darkness, from the Void, for example, if there is any way or opportunity to return them, I imagine that this may well happen."

I want Archeology to be a puzzle minigame prof just like ZM, Nazjatar quests or Tortollan wqs.

[Luck4]

I want a world revamp too. Which is weird, because even though I was looking forward to Cataclysm back in the day, I ended up disliking it after I saw what it did to the old world.

That's because Cataclysm Revamp destroyed both the zones and the smaller threat approach used back in Vanilla, which was by far more evergreen than Cataclysm's version of the zones.

We need a Revamp to fix that, seed new threats, give more depth into the cosmic stuff, and bring new heroes/villains into the fold.

In short, we need an introduction for all the crazy plots we're about to see in the next 3-4 expansions, and all characters involved.

Chromie time is not that much work and what work was done was worth it for the years it was active. bad take imo.

Exactly, and Chromie can stay on the game for people that want to see past expansions:

1st Character = Eastern Kingdoms/Kalimdor showing the core of the franchise and the lore behind the playable races and a refreshed/up-to-date story;
2nd+ Character = Chromie Time becomes an option;

--

Fun-fact

Back in 2010, when Cataclysm was about to release, Blizzard made a video showcasing the World Revamp and the New Stuff, presented by Thrall:

[Nymrohd]

Chromie time is still going to be widely used by anyone who wants to level in an old expansion. While imo Outland and Northrend also need to be upgraded visually, every other expansion would still be accessible mostly through Chromie Time. If anything a proper timewalking revamp could let people use Chromie Time to level by not just doing the leveling content but potentially also playing the max level campaign, even bringing back cut content like the MoP and WoD legendary questlines.

I do think Outland and Northrend could also use a graphical revamp.
My idea for Outland remains the same; Yrel finds a way to salvage decaying Draenor by transposing their Draenor onto Outland. The end result would be a new continent that is a mixture of both, with Elements of both WoD Draenor and Outland (e.g. Netherstorm and ethereal biodomes but updated to modern fidelity instead of Faralhon which was likely looted to create the jungle areas in Gorgrond anyway) You get the Dark Portal to turn gold and the Light Invasion starts.
Northrend has so many interesting loose threads. The Lich King and how Zovaal's plan affected Icecrown, Odyn's return to Ulduar, perhaps restored contact between the various Vrykul factions, post-Dragonflight status of Dragonblight, Galakrond's status and the likely abandonment of the Dragonshrines now that the Veiled Ossuary is accessible and ofc Azjol'Nerub could all be used. Nothing screams expansion storyline to me though.

As for the constant argument that Cata Revamp cost us Cataclysm's endgame, anyone who makes that argument willfully ignores the fact that almost everyone who is asking for a Revamp here is asking for either
a) an evergreen Revamp or visual Update that utilizes the old world for endgame broadly by placing world quests, rares and events and reusing or creating new instanced content
b) a partial Revamp that uses the Revamped area for max level content.

That said on the idea that there is no space for more expansions on Azeroth
There is no reason why Avaloren needs to be explored in ONE expac. It is supposed to be a continent, not a few Islands. Splitting its exploration and storyline between two expansions would imo be preferable. Perhaps there are nested seals or perhaps the first expansion leads to something more extreme. For instance maybe part of Avaloren has shifted into the Void and at the end of the first expac of the cycle we find a way to shift it back to Physical Reality, giving us an expansion on what would be an intact part of the Black Empire. Or maybe it sunk beneath the waves but survived beneath a massive dome of force and we dive to it for an "underwater" expansion (without underwater mechanics)
Beyond Avaloren there is the obvious idea for an underground expansion. Limitations never allowed Blizzard to explore the obvious underground areas of Azeroth. I'd say we have at the very least Azjol-Nerub, Blackrock Mountain plus Uldaman (which seems to extend far beyond the ruins we saw), Terramok Caverns, Hyjal Barrows (the entire Mt is honeycombed with tunnels given the size of the druid barrows, the Warden prisons, the Furbolg tunnels spreading from Azshara to Ashenvale to Felwood and Winterspring) and even the Oracle Caverns in Stonetalon, those lost dwarves or the Blingtron wars. These together with whatever else Blizzard would want to add (e.g. a massive Hive area beneath Silithus) could form a very meaty Underground expansion now that the tech is there.
Finally there is always Kezan, Tel'abim and a second chance at South Seas and Island Expeditions.
So here, areas in Azeroth covering four expansions and letting them do the Revamp at the 30th/40th anniversary instead.

[Jiastanna]

Hard disagree. The in game cutscenes are starting to get eerily close to pre rendered ones. I would go as far as to say that current ingame ones are better than the pre-rendered ones from MoP and before.

They are getting better, but still...the facial animation on the standard talk emote and the weird mouth movements can hardly be compared to the prerendered cinematics, both in DF and older expansions (WoD - SL) imo.

But I don´t want to go off topic and talk about cinematics. My point was: A world revamp would not change the problem of a newer playerbase having no connection to Warcrafts universe. They missed building a solid foundation after Legion. They tried with Shadowlands, but people disliked the new more generic look of the shadowlands and them not feeling very warcraft-like (azerothian). I am not completely against a world revamp. Azeroth is a better base for a more grounded story. And Iridikron has the potential to become a returning evil character, if being kept alive. Using him as an antagonist to keep the primalists as a returning evil faction might work. Let´s say, Blizz manages to get in more evil factions, both returning and new, what could be interesting?

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Revamp happens and first raid tier has judgement HD as paladin set.

[Nymrohd]

Revamp happens and first raid tier has judgement HD as paladin set.

I'm having an orgasm at the thought

___________


On the question of if a revamp would help attract a new audience; I think it would help but not significantly.
However I do think a revamp would attact old players at a massive level. People who may have not played wow for several expacs are likely to buy a month ot two just so they can fly around and see the new world. Nostalgia is a massive thing. So while that is not a sustainable population increase, it's still a large number of sales. Just think of how overwhelming the response to WoD was (Before we actually got to play it).

[Kiria]

Looks like even the goblin himself is onboard with a whole fresh new WoW, he states WoW needs the A Realm Reborn Treatment.

[micwini]

Count me in for team world revamp. Definitely think its time to remove those dusty cataclysm quests.

No need to remove it. I think back then removing the OG world was a mistake, but I also think it had to do with technical limitations, which are now solved. Just keep all 3 versions and let people pick.

[Nymrohd]

Looks like even the goblin himself is onboard with a whole fresh new WoW, he states WoW needs the A Realm Reborn Treatment.

I mean, the Realm Reborn treatment would mean nuking Azeroth and starting everything from scratch. That would be an utter disaster but ofc he'd call for something THIS stupid.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I mean, the Realm Reborn treatment would mean nuking Azeroth and starting everything from scratch. That would be an utter disaster but ofc he'd call for something THIS stupid.

Ye i watched first mins of this video and already he said something that stupid.

[Nymrohd]

Ye i watched first mins of this video and already he said something that stupid.

Shock value and clickbait. Google's algorithm destroying humanity

[Kiria]

They could always archive current WoW like Classic so it has it's own servers and start with a fresh new story and a more classic feel experience, so the people crying all their hardwork is gone will still have access to it, Current WoW is far too big to keep building on as it will just alienate people further.

[Darkarath]

I mean, the Realm Reborn treatment would mean nuking Azeroth and starting everything from scratch. That would be an utter disaster but ofc he'd call for something THIS stupid.

I can understand that approach in a way. WoW as it is now, even if the next expansion has everything that we dream of, is not going to attract new players for a number of reasons that I am sure we all are well aware of. I am not saying: "WoW is dead!!".

What I am saying is that WoW would keep getting smaller without new blood, and I see little chance that they keep supporting the game in the way they are doing with DF if that happens. Not in 11.0, which will be supported even more than DF, but after that if the numbers are not good...

IMO, as I stated before, Blizzard has two options:

- Keep current WoW, knowing that it will become a shadow of what it was due to the lack of new players.

- WoW 2.0 or a clean start in some way. Will that piss off veteran players due to their 20 year commitment? Yes, it will, but at some point you need to do that or there is no chance in which they will attract new blood. But hey, keep everything under the same subscription, the stuff that we have acquired along the years will still be there, you just will not be able to use it in WoW 2.0.

Eventually, a restart or a sequel will be needed, and all our precious yet increasingly useless mounts, pets and achievements will have to go away.

[Reive]

people expecting/hoping for a world revamp/wow2 are delusional. best you can get next expansion is player housing. the current devs aren't good enough to "refresh" the game.

[Kiria]

people expecting/hoping for a world revamp/wow2 are delusional. best you can get next expansion is player housing. the current devs aren't good enough to "refresh" the game.

Then to put it simply the game will stagnate further, fail to attract new interest and will eventually die and all those angry vets will have to face the fact not all games will last forever.

[Hitei]

people expecting/hoping for a world revamp/wow2 are delusional. best you can get next expansion is player housing. the current devs aren't good enough to "refresh" the game.

The old devs weren't "good enough" to refresh the game, hence Cata, a revamp where most zones were the largely the exact same.

If Azure Span as a Grizzly Hills 2.0 is any indication, the current devs have a significantly better grasp of improving an old zone than the late aughts ones did.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

There is no revamp and the "Creator Space" continual insistence there is will lead to consequences at Blizzcon.

Blizzard will do whatever they want to do even if it is not accomodating and narratively reasonable or planned.

In a way I feel the whole Revamp topic becoming such an overbearing noise is more or less the same topic surrounding Classic during WoD.

What these individuals actually seek seems more akin to a Classic+ than anything that can be delivered through the vehicle of Retail WoW.

Could there be elements of Model Revamps for a Void Invasion / Light Invasion? Sure. But, players who are clamoring for a "Revamp" are not asking for that they are asking for a full blown Revamp set on Kalimdor and EK with Kalimdor and EK storylines/new villains being the center of it.

This scenario is so far fetched and completely out of the logic of Blizzard Entertainment who has tried their hardest to not take the easy victories and layups from fan perception (Not developmental). I cannot deny it is funny to see how EVERY content creator is retorting the same nonsense repeatedly when fundamentally they are setting up for the biggest morale deflation this Blizzcon for no particular reason other than they think the short term gains are worth the long term morale losses.

The fundamental truth is that our A Plot sucks and the Narrative Teams consistent "No planning" and flexibility due to Developmental Pipeline issues is causing long term damage to the franchises longevity and well it didn't help they nuked so many storylines on Azeroth during BFA when they fully utilized the "Mini-expansion" concepts for Major Patches.

Again, if we had a Narrative Team that could take feedback and actively learn from their mistakes and do better while understanding their limitations and recognizing the flaws of the current delivery of their narrative. But, we just do not have that and unfortunately that leads to a deep schism between Warcraft fans and the Narrative Teams' current aspirations.

(I'm on Team Revamp/Yrel and Anti Team Void, by the way. I just think we're all setting ourselves up to be drinking whiskey from the barrel post-announcement.)

[Shadowferal]

IMO, as I stated before, Blizzard has two options:

- Keep current WoW, knowing that it will become a shadow of what it was due to the lack of new players.

- WoW 2.0 or a clean start in some way. Will that piss off veteran players due to their 20 year commitment? Yes, it will, but at some point you need to do that or there is no chance in which they will attract new blood. But hey, keep everything under the same subscription, the stuff that we have acquired along the years will still be there, you just will not be able to use it in WoW 2.0.

Eventually, a restart or a sequel will be needed, and all our precious yet increasingly useless mounts, pets and achievements will have to go away.

A 3rd option is a separate server system, keeping the current playerbase happy on their old servers. New servers would change the old storylines, classes and factions, structure of the conflict, etc.. With the old names in place we keep a familiarity while getting a lot of new things that encourage a player to discover other changes.

Tbf, your first option is the cheapest and easiest. Blizz hasn't shown much interest in injecting its property with the vim vigor and money needed for reinvestment.