1. #84041
    Ethereals are definitely a big part of an upcoming TWW patch. Even if the new models are meant for a playable race there's no reason they are all in the TWW files so early.

    I really don't think we're going to get Karesh until Midnight. It works very well as both the starting zone for playable Ethereals and the final area to go to at the end of the expansion to deal with Dimensius.

    Something I hadn't considered until writing this... I believe they said Xal persists through the whole saga. But what role would she even have in TLT, especially if we defeat her master and the antagonists shift to Iridikron and Bad Keepers/Titans?
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2025-01-11 at 03:55 PM.

  2. #84042
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Ethereals are definitely a big part of an upcoming TWW patch. Even if the new models are meant for a playable race there's no reason they are all in the TWW files so early.

    I really don't think we're going to get Karesh until Midnight. It works very well as both the starting zone for playable Ethereals and the final area to go to at the end of the expansion to deal with Dimensius.

    Something I hadn't considered until writing this... I believe they said Xal persists through the whole saga. But what role would she even have in TLT, especially if we defeat her master and the antagonists shift to Iridikron and Bad Keepers/Titans?
    Maybe she will actually end up as our ally in TLT.

  3. #84043
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Maybe she will actually end up as our ally in TLT.
    That would feel really crap, considering how hard she worked to be no. 1 on everyone shit list.
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  4. #84044
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    That would feel really crap, considering how hard she worked to be no. 1 on everyone shit list.
    Idk, I like her.

  5. #84045
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Maybe she will actually end up as our ally in TLT.
    I believe Xalatath is part of Azeroth's psyche the Titan's technology filtered out, the same way they did with the Earthen's consciousness. And it manifested itself as a separate sentient being. Xalatath is profoundly evil but her actual goal is to reunite with Azeroth, which is a good thing. When it shows the worldsoul in the trailer & Xal says "it will be mine" she means unification, not steal the worldsoul's power.

  6. #84046
    I would like if the extent of Xal in TLT is if Nzoth comes back (in the old Xal knife- see BFA ambiguous wrathion knife cutscene) and allies with us in Midnight to deal with her. This may be part of the reason for the Undersea and Naga buildup in DF and TWW. And in an ultimate irony loop she gets sucked BACK into the knife and has to help us do something in TLT.

    Nzoth gets out of the knife and... turns into SOMETHING smaller than the huge multiplanar monster. I've been thinking of a mutual ally Nzoth for a while and he could take a lot of interesting humanish forms.

  7. #84047
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    I feel like that whole thing was solely something that was happening with the context of Steve Danuser, I doubt anything will transpire involving the missing Blade or N'zoth.

    Again, obviously it could still happen because it does bring some form of energy boost back to the franchise but I tend to think that it is just not going to happen. I think we leave this expansion without anything happening honestly.

    But maybe they leave some clues or something to trend towards that in Nightfall/Revisiting Horrific Visions, who knows.
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  8. #84048
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    Funny observation: Archaedas shows a map of post-Sundering Azeroth then talking about the Manifold inside the Vault of Memory, rather than a map of ancient Kalimdor.

  9. #84049
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Funny observation: Archaedas shows a map of post-Sundering Azeroth then talking about the Manifold inside the Vault of Memory, rather than a map of ancient Kalimdor.
    That's not unusual. Archaedas was studying the Earthen in Uldaman since they & the Earthen of Khaz Modan emerged, and that was only about 1000 years ago.

  10. #84050
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    That's not unusual. Archaedas was studying the Earthen in Uldaman since they & the Earthen of Khaz Modan emerged, and that was only about 1000 years ago.
    It is strange in this context, because he is talking about how they constructed the Manifold all over Azeroth, also highlighting certain points on the map where they supposedly built their installations. His information is also coming from Khaz'goroth, meaning is should be from a more or less omniscient source on this issue, and obviously well before the Titans died (which happened ages before the Sundering).

  11. #84051
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    It is strange in this context, because he is talking about how they constructed the Manifold all over Azeroth, also highlighting certain points on the map where they supposedly built their installations. His information is also coming from Khaz'goroth, meaning is should be from a more or less omniscient source on this issue, and obviously well before the Titans died (which happened ages before the Sundering).
    I think what we're supposed to understand is that "the manifold" is a mechanism that consists of all the titan facilities on Azeroth. Planned by the Titans but built by the Keepers over hundreds of thousands of years, so some of those were constructed after the Sundering. That is why it uses a more recent map.

    The Khaz Algar Earthen don't know how to access the Manifold if the Sundering moved its access from the coreway, but due to their memory issues that doesn't mean the Keepers hadn't already built around that, fully aware the coreway cannot access the manifold at the moment.

  12. #84052
    Quote Originally Posted by Valysar View Post
    Not a big fan of D.R.I.V.E., seems to be a bit too fast.
    Gonna be worse on "bad" computers.
    As someone who's been testing the D.R.I.V.E system out, it really ain't too fast, like at all lol.

    The city is a bit small for it tho, and I hope Blizzard expands on this feature in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Exchange Ztudent View Post
    I feel like that whole thing was solely something that was happening with the context of Steve Danuser, I doubt anything will transpire involving the missing Blade or N'zoth.

    Again, obviously it could still happen because it does bring some form of energy boost back to the franchise but I tend to think that it is just not going to happen. I think we leave this expansion without anything happening honestly.

    But maybe they leave some clues or something to trend towards that in Nightfall/Revisiting Horrific Visions, who knows.
    You act like anything Danuser related was scrapped. Why?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, nothing was planned regarding the blade and N'Zoth. That's primarily headcanon.

  13. #84053
    Bloodsail Admiral Foreign Exchange Ztudent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuaj View Post
    You act like anything Danuser related was scrapped. Why?

    Also, nothing was planned regarding the blade and N'Zoth. That's primarily headcanon.
    This entire expansion in my view hinges on headcanon to at least successfully slide into Midnight. I don't really think that is going to transpire though and its going to be another "Hit the escape hatch" like Dragonflight when we hit X.2 and nothing conclusively engaging or interesting happens.

    They already made the same blunder with X.1 being another B Plot black hole which leaves the A Plot in Limbo for 6 months but at least they had the self awareness to at least say that there's is something that connects this B Plot to the A Plot as the Game Director had to respond to the feedback about Xal'atath doing her best Sylvanas impression that the A Plot is still relevant in X.1.

    I think the whole Dragonflight scenario where N'zoth sees us is mostly just a Danuserism, it was never supposed to be a "clue" that they would actually take it to a N'zoth redemption or any other fantasies that people were instilled by such actions.

    A lot of this game at this point is just fantastical headcanoning because nothing ever happens anymore, anyways.
    Last edited by Foreign Exchange Ztudent; 2025-01-11 at 06:40 PM.
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  14. #84054
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I think what we're supposed to understand is that "the manifold" is a mechanism that consists of all the titan facilities on Azeroth. Planned by the Titans but built by the Keepers over hundreds of thousands of years, so some of those were constructed after the Sundering. That is why it uses a more recent map.

    The Khaz Algar Earthen don't know how to access the Manifold if the Sundering moved its access from the coreway, but due to their memory issues that doesn't mean the Keepers hadn't already built around that, fully aware the coreway cannot access the manifold at the moment.
    Tbh, I just think Blizzard took the easy route since not a lot of people think about Ancient Kalimdor. When they see Azeroth, they expect Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms.

    Brinthe makes it pretty clear things stopped working for them during the Sundering, and AFAIK 'The Old Gods and the Ordering of Azeroth' makes it pretty clear the Titanforged finished their work a very long time ago. "As twilight fell on the final day of their labors, the Titans named the continent Kalimdor: "land of eternal starlight."

  15. #84055
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Tbh, I just think Blizzard took the easy route since not a lot of people think about Ancient Kalimdor. When they see Azeroth, they expect Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms.

    Brinthe makes it pretty clear things stopped working for them during the Sundering, and AFAIK 'The Old Gods and the Ordering of Azeroth' makes it pretty clear the Titanforged finished their work a very long time ago. "As twilight fell on the final day of their labors, the Titans named the continent Kalimdor: "land of eternal starlight."
    10,000 years ago can be "a very long time ago" but so can 100. As well as whatever Tyr instructed Archaedes to be doing in Uldaman was delayed by having to put those Earthen laborers in stasis to avoid the curse of flesh.

    Also that quote just doesn't make sense because Tyrande was calling the region Kalimdor in the War of the Ancients book but that was long before it actually became a continent. Kalimdor is literally an elf word, the Titans naming it makes zero sense. In fact, I assume that plays into the Keepers propaganda ala Odyn's directive: The Keepers attributing things to the Titans that had nothing to do with them, which Odyn instructed his underlings to do directly.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2025-01-11 at 06:55 PM.

  16. #84056
    Mmm, I hadn't really thought of Uldaz in a while, whatever that ends up being. It was a particular choice to have the Shadowguard all over Ulduar in the TWW prequel questline. I suppose they aren't just Xal'atath's lieutenants, but also her primary force for the more important jobs, such as taking over a Titan facility.

    The gears are turning with the Ethereals and Xal rapidly, and we're just beating up groups she's deluding with false promises of power, it's inevitable that we find ourselves toe to toe with adversaries that are very well aware of their role in this fight.

    If there is not only some form of major Shadowguard strike towards the heart of Azeroth, but also the reveal that they are either joined by or fully part of the Ethereum, we could very well see that as a bridge to write in the Protectorate as a playable Ethereal faction, joining up the forces of Azeroth to not only prevent the rebirth of Dimensius, but ensuring the defeat of the Ethereum who they view with the same disdain.

    EDIT: Shadreen being involved with elves in some way is also a major point of interest.
    Last edited by milkmustache; 2025-01-11 at 06:54 PM.

  17. #84057
    Yeah the second they hinted that Xal either works with or reports to Dimensius through that trading post staff, she was locked thematically to the Ethereals.

    Combine that with the Ethereals popping up every patch in TWW, and the new "male/female" models that aren't specifically void corrupted, they will likely be the most focused-on Void-tied race in Midnight and likely the new playable race in Midnight. This also lines up with Midnight being heavily TBC themed (Quelthalas, Ethereals, Dimensius, possibly the flying? Draenei city).

    Sorry Naga. Better luck next saga. (And I fully expect a triple whammy of Ascended Nerubians, Vrykul and MAYBE Tuskarr in TLT. Definitely Vrykul though.)

    Though Earthen/Haronir, Ethereal/Naga and then Ascended/Vrykul would be great.
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2025-01-11 at 07:12 PM.

  18. #84058
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Actually, what's interesting is that with Ink Ribbons, Typewriters are a product of mass production. The Goblin are technologically advanced but live in a world without mass production. Everything has to be made by hand. Ergo, a world with cars & appliances but not typewriters or plastics.
    Guess the Goblins and Gnomes have to start taking from the AU Orcs and Titanforged LMAOOO

    - - - Updated - - -

    Both utilize mass production just fine.

  19. #84059
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Sorry Naga. Better luck next saga. (And I fully expect a triple whammy of Ascended Nerubians, Vrykul and MAYBE Tuskarr in TLT. Definitely Vrykul though.)

    Though Earthen/Haronir, Ethereal/Naga and then Ascended/Vrykul would be great.
    Whatever threat the Naga emerge to pose, I don't think it'll be fully Xal'atath aligned. I think Azshara has and always will have her own agenda, and I know she'll be damned to allow Azeroth succumb to the Void simply because she views it as hers to rule. I don't know if they'll have a direct plot in Midnight, but they will at some point in this Saga. Perhaps she's of the same opinion as Iridikron and is looking to kill a Titan or two to gain dominance.

    I'd love to see some form of Void aligned Vrykul, but I don't think the Void will have that much sway in TLT, nor do I think they'd retread the Tideskorn in Legion. I don't particularly see the Vyrkul being a people who see eye to eye with the principles of the Void... I think the Tideskorn's bargain with the Legion was in the name of conquering, but I can't see that overlap with the Void. I just don't think it has anything to offer them.

    Perhaps Iridikron does. Beings that were once Titanforged who have created their own cultures after gaining the Curse of Flesh. Sure, the Titans made them, but they really seem to be following the "free will" thread that had some relevance in Shadowlands and DF, and seems to be the whole question around Azeroth (the worldsoul).

  20. #84060
    Herald of the Titans Worldshaper's Avatar
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    Zao Sunseeker and the Legend of the Five Suns

    According to the legend, long ago, there were five suns that burned brightly in the sky. When the winds blew, their intense heat caused great wildfires.

    Crops wilted, villages burned, and families wandered endlessly to seek refuge from the flames...
    Humanity and the Holy Light

    When the war ended, Mereldar dedicated her life to caring for humanity's wounded veterans. It was she who first spoke to other humans about visions of the Light. In her dreams, Mereldar saw five strange forms, not human, thrumming with holy power. They filled her mind with the wisdom of holiness, protection, justice, retribution, and compassion.

    When she put their wordless teachings into practice, power seemed to flow through her. The patients under her care would see their wounds disappear and their ilnesses vanish.

    Other humans also reported seeing these visions. Mereldar met with them, and together, they cofidied the radiant wisdom of this higher power into the written word. From the teachings in these books, a religious movement formed. It was based on the tenet of selflessness, and a belief that the Light dwelled in all things. The movement sparked widespread faith in the Holy Light and became the predominant religion.
    Lordaeron and the Holy Light

    After the Trolls Wars, a number of human priests began having faint visions and dreams of angelic beings, geometric forms that thrummed with living light. Although they did not know it, the priests had actually communed with the naaru in the Great Dark Beyond. Through this connection, the naaru guided the hearts of some humans and introduced them to the Holy Light.
    Velen: Prophet's Lesson

    And then, a sound. At first it was merely a vibration in the night, yet even that slight disturbance of the air was pure and strong and clean. A glow began, then several; the vibration became many, all in different tones, and the sights and sounds coalesced into an ascending tide of rainbow and melody. Beings of Light surrounded Anduin, rescuing him from the dark and singing to him of hope in a chorus that restored the universe.
    Il'gynoth

    Five keys to open our way. Five torches to light our path.

    Five lanterns, now darkened. The flame they seek will light the masters’ way.
    A Song of the Depths

    As one storm recedes, another rises. The torches have been lit. The secrets he buried will strike as a dagger into the hearts of his kin!
    The Old Gods and the Ordering of Azeroth

    As twilight fell on the final day of their labors, the Titans named the continent Kalimdor: "land of eternal starlight".
    A little silly theory, then:

    • Five Old Gods arrived on Azeroth to corrupt it.
    • Five Naaru were sent by Elune to protect it from the Void. One for each Old God. The Beledar and its Naaru arrived nearby Xal'atath underneath what is today known as Khaz Algar, while the others were sent to other locations around Azeroth.
    • Four of the five Naaru were corrupted and fell to darkness, leaving only the one inside the Beledar.
    • Xal'atath, the 5th Old God, eventually gained control of the Beledar, but was abruptly slain by her brothers. For now, the Naaru inside the Beledar was safe.
    • The Titans arrived and locked everything down. Worldsoul, Old Gods, and everything. The Titanforged did encounter the Beledar when constructing the Coreway, but everything was just covered up and left alone.
    • Xal'atath, her essence preserved inside the Black Blade of the Empire, eventually made her way to the surface from below the sea. The Sundering helped, as that shifted the landscape around.
    • Now, Xal'atath is intent on turning the Beledar to the darkness again, thus allowing her to awaken herself (resurrect).

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