The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It hasn't been since WarCraft 2, so that'd just mean you're wrong what the story is about.

Warcraft 2 isn’t some deep story about Outland or the like nor is Warcraft 3. Sure the orcs come from another planet but the focus is stil firmly on Azeroth.

It’s not till TBC that Outland gets real focus and if you ask me Outland blows and it’s the parts that take place on Azeroth that I care about from TBC.

[Cheezits]

It’s not till TBC that Outland gets real focus and if you ask me Outland blows and it’s the parts that take place on Azeroth that I care about from TBC.

I do think it's a bit telling from Blizzard that after TBC the two primary TBC-themed expansions (Legion, now Midnight) take place on Azeroth at launch. WOD was a remake of Outland but without the cosmic/space theme.

Patch zone trips to space and/or other realms are still in the cards I think but I'm not expecting an Outlands/Draenor/Shadowlands situation ever again where the launch zones are firmly sequestered in another world.

[milkmustache]

I do think it's a bit telling from Blizzard that after TBC the two primary TBC-themed expansions (Legion, now Midnight) take place on Azeroth at launch. WOD was a remake of Outland but without the cosmic/space theme.

Patch zone trips to space and/or other realms are still in the cards I think but I'm not expecting an Outlands/Draenor/Shadowlands situation ever again where the launch zones are firmly sequestered in another world.

I think this is particularly true with the notion that they are playing the long game in seeding Avaloren, a brand new content with an entire empire on the other side of the world.

[Joshuaj]

I meant more "as it used to be" in terms that Shadowlands wouldn't be a location we visited, but rather an ethereal realm of sorts that kind of... overlaps Azeroth. The spirit realm you see when you're dead, essentially. IiRC, they used to portray the Shadowlands as being that.

Fot example in the DK starting area that's pretty much what you see when you enter the Shadowlands to chase spirits.

I agree time travel is risky, UNLESS we go there precisely because we need to preserve time, not change it. Rather than cause a "butterfly effect," we prevent somebody else from doing so.

Perhaps Xal'atath wants to undo something, in order to claim power in the future. Perhaps stop the Burning Legion invasion or something. So we end up having to make sure it happens.

Except we've been to that "ethereal" part of the Shadowlands in both WoTLK, and BFA. I prefer seeing the Shadowlands in true. It expands not just the cosmology in my view, but it also opens up a lot of cool speculation, especially in regards to what type of Afterlife possibly exists.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I do think it's a bit telling from Blizzard that after TBC the two primary TBC-themed expansions (Legion, now Midnight) take place on Azeroth at launch. WOD was a remake of Outland but without the cosmic/space theme.

Patch zone trips to space and/or other realms are still in the cards I think but I'm not expecting an Outlands/Draenor/Shadowlands situation ever again where the launch zones are firmly sequestered in another world.

Honestly if it wasn’t for the Warcraft movie I don’t think we would have even gotten Wod. One of the reasons for it was Metzen realizing that a lot of people didn’t know who the OG clan chiefs were and without a movie and possible series coming out why would that even matter given none of them were relevant for years.

And after the bombing of SL I don’t see us getting another plain expansion any time soon and it’s likely going to be single patch’s like the emerald dream if we go to others.

[Joshuaj]

Warcraft 2 isn’t some deep story about Outland or the like nor is Warcraft 3. Sure the orcs come from another planet but the focus is stil firmly on Azeroth.

It’s not till TBC that Outland gets real focus and if you ask me Outland blows and it’s the parts that take place on Azeroth that I care about from TBC.

Warcraft 2 still had us go to Draenor in its expansion, and WC3 still introduced us to the Burning Legion, which was a demonic threat that scorched the universe.

Cosmic roots existed heavily back then as well. However, unlike then, we're actually taking the time to explore these regions proper. Only makes sense, considering Warcraft's massive scale.

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I do think it's a bit telling from Blizzard that after TBC the two primary TBC-themed expansions (Legion, now Midnight) take place on Azeroth at launch. WOD was a remake of Outland but without the cosmic/space theme.

Patch zone trips to space and/or other realms are still in the cards I think but I'm not expecting an Outlands/Draenor/Shadowlands situation ever again where the launch zones are firmly sequestered in another world.

If I may ask, why would we enter the Void first thing in Midnight? Blizzard's hinted at a Light Vs Shadow conflict on Azeroth for a long time now. Them making the Void the main setting of Midnight would be silly.

The Shadowlands worked as the main setting for 9.0 cause it was basically the third part of the Lich King stuff.

[Cheezits]

I think this is particularly true with the notion that they are playing the long game in seeding Avaloren, a brand new content with an entire empire on the other side of the world.

Brand new stuff is definitely going to happen like Avaloren as you said, we got that with Khaz Algar (zero lore compared to 1% like Dragon Isles), Danuser or not. But it's still going to be on Azeroth with Azeroth races and easily(?) accessible to Azeroth races. We've already got Green Dragons and Half-Elves.

I do think that if we say the next saga is going to also be three expansions, then of the 3 ... probably 1 will be New Stuff vs remake. Like Avaloren is one expansion of next saga while the other two are Kalimdor revamp and ???? revamp. I think they know revamps are where the hype money is right now.

[Joshuaj]

Unless you count the Black Empire stuff, we haven't really seen much of the Void's arsenal. With WC3 and Wrath, you at least got a glimpse of what you would eventually see in the Jailer's arsenal, or in Maldraxxus. But Midnight? No. The Black Empire is gone, so the architecture provided there won't be nearly the same. And ontop of that, Midnight will possibly involve Dimensius in a more direct manner, which means no more Old Gods lol. If anything, Midnight serves more as a part 2 to the Void stuff, while TWW serves as part 1 (which makes sense). This means, if we get a part 3, it'll likely involve the Void realm directly.

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Brand new stuff is definitely going to happen like Avaloren as you said, we got that with Khaz Algar (zero lore compared to 1% like Dragon Isles), Danuser or not. But it's still going to be on Azeroth with Azeroth races and easily(?) accessible to Azeroth races.

I prefer Blizzard balancing the cosmic stuff with the more grounded plots. For example, I think the next saga should go full cosmic, with us entering a revamped Outland the first expac (With Xoroth, Rancora, and Nathreza's ruins as max level/patch areas), us going to the Order Realm the second expac, and us going to the depths of the Nether the third expac.

And for the saga after that? Simple. Civil War across the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor + pirates and whatnot for the first expac (introduce proper naval warfare, etc), Avaloren the second expac, and us going to Azeroth's sun and moons the third expac.

One saga is focused on cosmic stuff, the other saga brings us back home and focuses on things grounded to Azeroth.

[Cheezits]

I prefer Blizzard balancing the cosmic stuff with the more grounded plots. For example, I think the next saga should go full cosmic, with us entering a revamped Outland the first expac (With Xoroth, Rancora, and Nathreza's ruins as max level/patch areas), us going to the Order Realm the second expac, and us going to the depths of the Nether the third expac.

After the SL swing and miss I doubt we'll see another expansion in a new realm. I do think an Outlands revamp (proper Outlands) may happen due to the ties to Kalimdor races (Orcs, Draenei) and the Void, which can persist through Azshara who I think will be a big focus next saga, and also set up an expansion on Kalimdor proper.

If I was a betting man- Kalimdor expac, Outlands (Ogres and Arrakoa!), and Avaloren in no particular order for next saga. I'm really seeing the potential with Arathi Emperor and Empress Azshara teaming up to fight us, or warring and us being caught in the middle. Maybe they agree Azshara gets Kalimdor and the Emperor gets EK?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Warcraft 2 still had us go to Draenor in its expansion, and WC3 still introduced us to the Burning Legion, which was a demonic threat that scorched the universe.

Cosmic roots existed heavily back then as well. However, unlike then, we're actually taking the time to explore these regions proper. Only makes sense, considering Warcraft's massive scale.

I’m not saying we never left Azeroth or cosmic parts haven’t always been there, I’m saying that prior to TBC the focus was still firmly on Azeroth with BTDP being I’d say the equivalent of Argus.

As for exploration I’d saying doing it to the extent we got on Argus and the ED is a better way of doing it, one big patch Mabye a questline or two going back beats out a expansion for me based on the ones we had in the past.

[Nymrohd]

Btw ESO is going to start a gradual World Revamp. Starting zones will get a makeover next update.

[Kiivar86]

I don't think we know if Dimensius specifically is involved with the plot of Midnight, but if so it would give us good reason to at least see K'aresh to some degree, sure. It'll kind of come down to which of the Void Lords is writing Xal'atath's checks, so to speak; it could be Dimensius but it could just easily be one of their others, or even none of them if Xal'atath is scheming on her own.

You're right, we don't, but at the same time, its the only named void lord we've had at all, involved with K'aresh, the Voidsong staff from some time back connects Dimensius with the Black Empire and the Twilight Hermit said that they gave it to Xal'atath (doesn't name drop her, fair, but he said it was given to the Harbinger (and it is called the Stave fo the Harbinger, after all) and uses feminine pronouns).

So I mean, it feels pretty weighted in that way, if you ask me.

azeroth is so huge yet empty because they do nothing with all the zones. just the classic leveling zones being redone could cover like 4 expansions but no some are still stuck in the naga invading

I would like to see zones re-used to a point, but personally I also want to see new areas. 4 expansions of zones we've been to is pretty much a snorefest unless they're massively redone.

[Joshuaj]

After the SL swing and miss I doubt we'll see another expansion in a new realm. I do think an Outlands revamp (proper Outlands) may happen due to the ties to Kalimdor races (Orcs, Draenei) and the Void, which can persist through Azshara who I think will be a big focus next saga, and also set up an expansion on Kalimdor proper.

If I was a betting man- Kalimdor expac, Outlands (Ogres and Arrakoa!), and Avaloren in no particular order for next saga. I'm really seeing the potential with Arathi Emperor and Empress Azshara teaming up to fight us, or warring and us being caught in the middle. Maybe they agree Azshara gets Kalimdor and the Emperor gets EK?

An expansion focused on a cosmic realm can definitely work, and I don't think Blizzard should be afraid of ever taking such a risk again. However, they definitely need to build the realms up more, and they need to make the narratives better.

[milkmustache]

After the SL swing and miss I doubt we'll see another expansion in a new realm. I do think an Outlands revamp (proper Outlands) may happen due to the ties to Kalimdor races (Orcs, Draenei) and the Void, which can persist through Azshara who I think will be a big focus next saga, and also set up an expansion on Kalimdor proper.

If I was a betting man- Kalimdor expac, Outlands (Ogres and Arrakoa!), and Avaloren in no particular order for next saga. I'm really seeing the potential with Arathi Emperor and Empress Azshara teaming up to fight us, or warring and us being caught in the middle. Maybe they agree Azshara gets Kalimdor and the Emperor gets EK?

Wow. That's an incredible idea. Azhsara and the Thoradin XI partition the rest of Azeroth, both of course with plans to cut each other out eventually. Each fighting for their "ancestral lands".

It would be a nice twist to see some form of retread on the Sons of Lothar with the Arathi Empire sending troops to Outland to ravage what is left of the Void and Demons and Azshara mirroring Illidan with her banishment to Outland and becomig it's custodian or something.

[Joshuaj]

I’m not saying we never left Azeroth or cosmic parts haven’t always been there, I’m saying that prior to TBC the focus was still firmly on Azeroth with BTDP being I’d say the equivalent of Argus.

As for exploration I’d saying doing it to the extent we got on Argus and the ED is a better way of doing it, one big patch Mabye a questline or two going back beats out a expansion for me based on the ones we had in the past.

Sure, but again, that's early Warcraft. Blizzard was setting up the fundamental groundwork for those things.

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Also, sure, patches like Argus are cool and all, but those places more-so serve as a means of giving players a glimpse into those cosmic aspects. It's to make players want to see more of that type of stuff. The Dream especially is a good example of that, with it hinting at a greater Domain of Life and everything.

[Cheezits]

Wow. That's an incredible idea. Azhsara and the Thoradin XI partition the rest of Azeroth, both of course with plans to cut each other out eventually. Each fighting for their "ancestral lands".

I only just realized that Thoradin XI is kind of being set up as the "Azshara" of EK. There wasn't this one singular figure lurking in the history of EK before the way that Azshara's ruins are all over Kalimdor and her fingers are deep in the lore and the horrible things that happened to Azeroth.

While Thoradin doesn't have that historical baggage, he IS currently the oldest lineage figure alive with a "claim" to a unified EK the same way Azshara once ruled Kalimdor. And also, conveniently, he has her same title of Emperor/Empress.

[Ersula]

Warcraft 2 isn’t some deep story about Outland or the like nor is Warcraft 3. Sure the orcs come from another planet but the focus is stil firmly on Azeroth.

It’s not till TBC that Outland gets real focus and if you ask me Outland blows and it’s the parts that take place on Azeroth that I care about from TBC.

But we also spend most of Frozen Throne on Draenor as well. Like I said, half of the whole Warcraft RTS franchise.

Metzen is the one who likes other planets & he's the one that's now in charge. Any sentiment about Azeroth being the main focus of the franchise by Ion was while Metzen was gone & I think that era is over. Seems to me putting closure on that Azeroth centric era of WoW is the point of the Worldsoul Saga.

[Joshuaj]

After the SL swing and miss I doubt we'll see another expansion in a new realm. I do think an Outlands revamp (proper Outlands) may happen due to the ties to Kalimdor races (Orcs, Draenei) and the Void, which can persist through Azshara who I think will be a big focus next saga, and also set up an expansion on Kalimdor proper.

If I was a betting man- Kalimdor expac, Outlands (Ogres and Arrakoa!), and Avaloren in no particular order for next saga. I'm really seeing the potential with Arathi Emperor and Empress Azshara teaming up to fight us, or warring and us being caught in the middle. Maybe they agree Azshara gets Kalimdor and the Emperor gets EK?

Also, while I get your theory here, I much prefer sagas to be connected in some way. The reason I mentioned the stuff above was that I gave a particular theme in mind.

So, for the saga with Outland and everything, I called it "The Anarchy Saga" with Order Vs Disorder as the main theme. And for the other saga (with Avaloren, etc), I called it "The Expedition/Discovery Saga", since it would involve us going to new Azerothian lands and everything.

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I actually made a massive chart predicting what I'd love to see next for Warcraft, and they all focus on different things, both cosmic and grounded.

[milkmustache]

Also, sure, patches like Argus are cool and all, but those places more-so serve as a means of giving players a glimpse into those cosmic aspects. It's to make players want to see more of that type of stuff. The Dream especially is a good example of that, with it hinting at a greater Domain of Life and everything.

But it's quite literally the opposite. Ion and devs have gone on record to state that things like Argus only work as patches because the player base will easily tire of the same visuals for an entire expansion. Green, green, green. Yes, Argus had Eredath which was a beautiful zone to break up some of the visuals, but it's ultimately the same. Argus works because we'd known the Legion and the Draenei for decades and finally visiting their homeworld was perfect for the final showdown. Yes, Shadowlands had 6 vastly different zones, some that were incredibly well made, but the large issue there was how separate it was from Azeroth.

The marketing for Dragonflight was entirely focused on returning home, returning to Azeroth. That wasn't for the sake of the plot, it was because they had poor reception to Shadowlands and the extended time away from Azeroth, a familiar setting that the players enjoy.

I am someone who is particularly critical of Shadowlands and the cosmology lore because I just did not enjoy it, but my personal opinions aside, the idea of an entire expansion in another cosmic realm may be possible to do by Blizzard, but it is incredibly probable that they would not because the one time they did they had incredibly poor reception. I think they will continue being single zones, whether patch or launch, but not an entire expansion's focus.

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But we also spend most of Frozen Throne on Draenor as well. Like I said, half of the whole Warcraft RTS franchise.

Metzen is the one who likes other planets & he's the one that's now in charge. Any sentiment about Azeroth being the main focus of the franchise by Ion was while Metzen was gone & I think that era is over. Seems to me putting closure on that Azeroth centric era of WoW is the point of the Worldsoul Saga.

I think calling the Worldsoul Saga the closure of an Azeroth centric era of WoW is such an astronomical leap. "Sentiment about Azeroth being the main focus by Ion" wasn't just some narrative decision. They tried expanding and faced incredible pushback from their audience.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Sure, but again, that's early Warcraft. Blizzard was setting up the fundamental groundwork for those things.

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Also, sure, patches like Argus are cool and all, but those places more-so serve as a means of giving players a glimpse into those cosmic aspects. It's to make players want to see more of that type of stuff. The Dream especially is a good example of that, with it hinting at a greater Domain of Life and everything.

Ya there set up but there not the focus and I think it works better when they compliment the focus of Azeroth instead of trying to be the focus them selfs.