1. #84381
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    It's been speculated quite a bit that Haronir are between Troll and Nelf, but based on this blurb above I think they may be revealed to be specifically Dark Trolls who evolved in a different way than Night Elves. Some of them are pink (because Nelf) but they can be gray as well.
    Yeah, this is what I've been thinking.

    The missing link theory doesn't really fit well when you consider all the animal parts Haranir have. For them to go from Trolls, to Haranir, to Elves, they'd have to grow fur, quills, bat ears, completely different fangs, claws, etc... and then lose them all again when they became Elves.

    But divergent evolution seems very plausible. We've seen Dark Trolls evolve when exposed to magic, and the Haranir seem like a very plausible alternate outcome if they were exposed to pure Life instead. So, basically, one tribe of Dark Trolls settled at the Well of Eternity and became Night Elves, while another settled in the roots of Elun'ahir and became Haranir.
    Last edited by Eldryth; 2025-01-16 at 08:49 PM.

  2. #84382
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Etherals, though... a blue, mysterious spellcaster, from a lost world, kinda has a Mass Effect Tali vibe to it.
    Ethereals are clearly one of WoW's top races. I mean, in what other RPG universe do you have magical space mummies? It's original and very interesting, especially their history. Their “badass” side (which modern races eventually lose) and the way they move are certainly part of their charm.

    I was rather indifferent before, but these new models have made me want to play one. Whatever the price, I'm willing to pay it. But we ABSOLUTELY need a new theme class!

  3. #84383
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Hmm, a new Draenei city would make a Horde-affiliated Silvermoon a bit more likely in Midnight. if there is such a city, that is.
    Silvermoon is definitely going to be neutral, I can't see there being two capitals and it fits the Elf Unity thing. Lor and Thal may annex the rebuilt broken half to the Alliance.

    If I'm wrong then yeah, it's going to have to be the Draenei as everything around Quel'thalas is pretty damn Horde. The Draenei are basically the only non-Elf and Alliance thing tied to the expansion beyond Turalyon and Anduin. They could essentially be the Goblins/Undermine of Midnight in terms of throwing the opposing faction a bone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldryth View Post
    But divergent evolution seems very plausible. We've seen Dark Trolls evolve when exposed to magic, and the Haranir seem like a very plausible alternate outcome if they were exposed to pure Life instead. So, basically, one tribe of Dark Trolls settled at the Well of Eternity and became Night Elves, while another settled in the roots of Elun'ahir and became Haranir.
    Well I think there will be a little Elune meddling through Elun'ahir, just it will be Life + Elune instead of Arcane + Elune which made Highborne. We know things involved with Elune turn pink and elfy (see: Cenarius) and they have glowy blue moon eyes and druidism. The bat thing may be tied to Hireek or it's just a fun gimmick.
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2025-01-16 at 08:59 PM.

  4. #84384
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Well I think there will be a little Elune meddling through Elun'ahir, just it will be Life + Elune instead of Arcane + Elune which made Highborne. We know things involved with Elune turn pink and elfy (see: Cenarius) and they have glowy blue moon eyes and druidism. The bat thing may be tied to Hireek or it's just a fun gimmick.
    Yeah, I can definitely see Elune being a factor too. The known Dark Troll evolution was her chosen race, while the Haranir protect the tree she gave Eonar.

    I don't think they're anywhere near as connected to bats as most people assume though. It's their flight form, sure, and they have some bat traits (like their ears and possibly their fur)... but it's mixed with a bunch of other animal features that bats don't have. I mean, I've never heard of a bat with quills, their fangs look very different from bat fangs, and the same goes for their claws... it looks more like they took parts from a wide variety of different animals, rather than just becoming part bat. And that's a big part of why I see them being influenced by Life itself rather than being tied to a specific animal or Loa.
    Last edited by Eldryth; 2025-01-16 at 09:15 PM.

  5. #84385
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuaj View Post
    Oh yeah, Eversong is huge. The problem is that it's mostly 2D, so as soon as you start flying, the cracks expand FAST!
    It would be similar to the Isle of Dorn Zone, which is also quite open and flat. They might pronounce the elevation a bit more. But I don’t see a problem, not every zone needs drastic elevation shifts, and with d.r.i.v.e. a more flat area might be good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    If we somehow do get a void Hunter class, I’ll be the first one to post in this thread to admit my error.
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    I mean, trying to worm out of the way it's the WORLDSOUL saga... yah. It's Azeroth reaching out, not some light fairy.
    Enforcer (Warden/Spellbreaker) Class Idea , Naga using Worgen Rig Mockup, Blizz Class Survey

  6. #84386
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldryth View Post
    I mean, I've never heard of a bat with quills, their fangs look very different from bat fangs, and the same goes for their claws... it looks more like they took parts from a wide variety of different animals, rather than just becoming part bat. And that's a big part of why I see them being influenced by Life itself rather than being tied to a specific animal or Loa.
    That's a good point, and it would be kind of cool if The Cradle/the mystery flower in the Rootlands had the power to create Wild Gods. Being so close to a source of pure life magic could explain the random variety of animal traits.

    It would be fun if their druid forms coincidentally linked to loa the various tribes worship- Bats for Hireek and Darkspear, then a bear and cat form for Drakkari and Amani (polar bear and lynx?). Maybe throw in a dino for Zandalar.

    It would be funny if Haronir cats JUST SO HAPPEN to look like lynxes from Quel'thalas and Hallowfall. Maybe that's what the druid armor from 11.0 was hinting at?
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2025-01-16 at 09:27 PM.

  7. #84387
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Ehm, well, Brann is technically a hunter and now has two new specs, and fun fact, one with a pistol and a shield which kinda fits with that weird pistoleer class leak we had earlier?
    I guess. The healing spec of brann ist just throwing potions (apothecary survey class?) perhaps delve companions will just be a testing bed for different class ideas?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    If we somehow do get a void Hunter class, I’ll be the first one to post in this thread to admit my error.
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    I mean, trying to worm out of the way it's the WORLDSOUL saga... yah. It's Azeroth reaching out, not some light fairy.
    Enforcer (Warden/Spellbreaker) Class Idea , Naga using Worgen Rig Mockup, Blizz Class Survey

  8. #84388
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Silvermoon is definitely going to be neutral, I can't see there being two capitals and it fits the Elf Unity thing. Lor and Thal may annex the rebuilt broken half to the Alliance.
    I still think it's going to be a double capital of Lordaeron for Horde, and Gilneas for Alliance. It's in close proximity. Both capitals need all the furnishings like AH, Bank, portals, etc. And it's a very natural segue into Player housing, without it feeling strictly like it's a Midnight feature when it's time for the next expansions.
    This also lets Silvermoon be a hostile area to start with that we gradually retake. Which would lead to a very natural 12.1 or 12.2 where Silvermoon is updated alongside a new Draenei settlement, both for narrative reasons, and to give a place to have Belf and Draenei themed houses.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  9. #84389
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I still think it's going to be a double capital of Lordaeron for Horde, and Gilneas for Alliance. It's in close proximity. Both capitals need all the furnishings like AH, Bank, portals, etc. And it's a very natural segue into Player housing, without it feeling strictly like it's a Midnight feature when it's time for the next expansions.
    That would be really cool but it's also a lot more work to model Lordaeron, Gilneas and SMC than it is to just make a big SMC for both factions. Not being critical of this but I think it's just the more realistic option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    This also lets Silvermoon be a hostile area to start with that we gradually retake. Which would lead to a very natural 12.1 or 12.2 where Silvermoon is updated alongside a new Draenei settlement, both for narrative reasons, and to give a place to have Belf and Draenei themed houses.
    I think if you make SMC hostile you run into the problem of "what is this expansion really about" and them marketing it as a "return to Quel'thalas" only to have the big nostalgia city be a questing area (even if you retake it) would piss people off bigtime.

  10. #84390
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    That would be really cool but it's also a lot more work to model Lordaeron, Gilneas and SMC than it is to just make a big SMC for both factions. Not being critical of this but I think it's just the more realistic option.



    I think if you make SMC hostile you run into the problem of "what is this expansion really about" and them marketing it as a "return to Quel'thalas" only to have the big nostalgia city be a questing area (even if you retake it) would piss people off bigtime.
    Gilneas is basically done already. And I don't think people would be too fussed if all it gets is a once over with better textures and some interiors in the various buildings in Gilneas city.
    For Lordaeron. While it definitely would be a lot of work redoing Undercity, I could see a solution where they simply make Lordaeron City the main hub, and spruce that up alongside the tower outside which is de facto the Forsaken hub at this point.
    Then it's just about designating where the player house plots are, which could easily take up a lot of space.
    Admittedly, much of this is predicated on my belief that Midnight will attempt to make one house plot and style for each core Alliance and Horde race, starting with Human/Dwarf, and Orc/(something else, probably Goblin) for the pre-expansion. Going into Forsaken, Worgen for launch. And then Belf/Draenei at some later point. They all have somewhere logical to be placed, bar Forsaken, Worgen, and Draenei. All of whom would be perfect for Midnight. Whatever races remain like Nelves, Gnomes, Trolls, and Tauren could come at some undefined point when the designers are done making them.


    Players being angry at Silvermoon being hostile is entirely subjective. I know a lot of people would be annoyed if the developers miss the chance at Suramar 2.0 with big raids to liberate the city.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  11. #84391
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Admittedly, much of this is predicated on my belief that Midnight will attempt to make one house plot and style for each core Alliance and Horde race, starting with Human/Dwarf, and Orc/(something else, probably Goblin) for the pre-expansion.
    I think housing at launch will mostly be from HD furniture assets that already exist. If you use Mists or WoD as the first benchmark of a modern expansion, you can have models and doodads from Mists-TWW. Zandalari houses, Kul Tiran houses, etc. There will likely be a SMC house pretty early because of all the assets they made for Midnight itself.

    There may be an Earthen house because of TWW but there hasn't been a refresh of regular Dwarf assets in a while, so it may take longer for that.

  12. #84392
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I think housing at launch will mostly be from HD furniture assets that already exist. If you use Mists or WoD as the first benchmark of a modern expansion, you can have models and doodads from Mists-TWW. Zandalari houses, Kul Tiran houses, etc. There will likely be a SMC house pretty early because of all the assets they made for Midnight itself.

    There may be an Earthen house because of TWW but there hasn't been a refresh of regular Dwarf assets in a while, so it may take longer for that.
    Earthen houses are close enough to Dwarf that I think you could easily pretend it always looked like that with a few choice changes like removing the most egregious differences and swapping the colour palette.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  13. #84393
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Earthen houses are close enough to Dwarf that I think you could easily pretend it always looked like that with a few choice changes like removing the most egregious differences and swapping the colour palette.
    I agree that they could probably get away with that, but I'd much rather them delay a Dwarf House until they have an expansion where the assets can be properly used so the art team gets time to cook.

    Even if you just use TWW you have a wealth of house asset options-

    -Earthen
    -Hallowfall
    -Nerubian
    -Goblin
    -Kobold?

    Then Midnight would have Thalassian and Troll items plus likely Forsaken and Draenei stuff. But I admit there's a possibility they may be stocking up on world revamp assets and will just make houses using those, such as all the updated human stuff in the files.

  14. #84394
    Is it just me who's generally disappointed with WoW cities?

    I find that cities are filled with unnecessarily large spaces, where they make streets as big as soccer stadiums, they could easily make several streets by putting more buildings on them. As for Undermine, I've only seen the official presentation videos, so I don't want to be spoiled, but have you seen the artwork behind the developers? It looked more like an ultra-populated city center than anything I've seen... I may be wrong, but I don't think it does justice to the Undermine we knew before in the story.

    Valdrakken seemed... unhoused, despite the few towers there were.
    Dornogal has unnecessarily large, empty squares

    And the few hubs in other zones, like Mereldar, are so small... in fact, the “cities” look more like villages deep in the countryside than capitals.
    I still think they're being lazy about it. So I'm rather skeptical about the new Silvermoon.

  15. #84395
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Females have four arms and some a set of snakey hair.



    Vikings. You're talking about literal vikings. How would that not be epic?



    Then, maybe, those that we recruit retained theirs.



    Maybe if they were actual undead mummies...
    It's not like they weren't people before Dimensius' destruction.



    You're right.
    The whole premise of a Naga is being a serpent.
    It just feels like they could have been much more. Even Brokers have more style than them.



    Yes, as monsters. Not as the protagonists.



    They could do them without the wrappings, as blobs of energy, selling wrappings for 10$ on the store.
    Is there a problem with the Void also being good in some cases?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enrif View Post
    It would be similar to the Isle of Dorn Zone, which is also quite open and flat. They might pronounce the elevation a bit more. But I don’t see a problem, not every zone needs drastic elevation shifts, and with d.r.i.v.e. a more flat area might be good.
    Dude, it's a forest...

  16. #84396
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuaj View Post
    Is there a problem with the Void also being good in some cases?

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    Dude, it's a forest...
    nah you see the thing that gave almost every player race (or maybe all of them we dont really know) free will is evil actually

  17. #84397
    Quote Originally Posted by Enteroctopus Magnificus View Post
    Is it just me who's generally disappointed with WoW cities?

    I find that cities are filled with unnecessarily large spaces, where they make streets as big as soccer stadiums, they could easily make several streets by putting more buildings on them. As for Undermine, I've only seen the official presentation videos, so I don't want to be spoiled, but have you seen the artwork behind the developers? It looked more like an ultra-populated city center than anything I've seen... I may be wrong, but I don't think it does justice to the Undermine we knew before in the story.

    Valdrakken seemed... unhoused, despite the few towers there were.
    Dornogal has unnecessarily large, empty squares

    And the few hubs in other zones, like Mereldar, are so small... in fact, the “cities” look more like villages deep in the countryside than capitals.
    I still think they're being lazy about it. So I'm rather skeptical about the new Silvermoon.
    NGL. I think Suramar may have spoiled us.

  18. #84398
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyd2 View Post
    NGL. I think Suramar may have spoiled us.
    I think Boralus is superior to Suramar in terms of actual city design/depiction, even if I personally like Suramar more and it is obviously more visually impressive by virtue of all its glowy arcane stuff.

  19. #84399
    The only cities that look proper in WoW are Boralus and Suramar.

  20. #84400
    Quote Originally Posted by Enteroctopus Magnificus View Post
    Is it just me who's generally disappointed with WoW cities?

    I find that cities are filled with unnecessarily large spaces, where they make streets as big as soccer stadiums, they could easily make several streets by putting more buildings on them. As for Undermine, I've only seen the official presentation videos, so I don't want to be spoiled, but have you seen the artwork behind the developers? It looked more like an ultra-populated city center than anything I've seen... I may be wrong, but I don't think it does justice to the Undermine we knew before in the story.

    Valdrakken seemed... unhoused, despite the few towers there were.
    Dornogal has unnecessarily large, empty squares

    And the few hubs in other zones, like Mereldar, are so small... in fact, the “cities” look more like villages deep in the countryside than capitals.
    I still think they're being lazy about it. So I'm rather skeptical about the new Silvermoon.
    Full-size cities would be highly impractical and boring. And the hubs are meant to be easy to navigate. Making tight corridors isn't helpful with that.
    A realistic sized Mereldar would be the size of the entire zone at least. Azj-Kahet would probably be even larger. Both also have the benefit of being underground; they don't need as many buildings when you can just set things up outdoors. Not like it'd rain. At the same time, that makes large open spaces more useful.

    That aside, Valdrakken was a city for full-sized dragons. It actually needs the wide open spaces, while houses aren't really that important to them.
    Dornogal presumably had to be able to accomodate the larger Titan constructs as well, what with the Coreway being there and a lot of the private spaces are implied to be built into the surrounding mountain.

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