1. #84481
    Quote Originally Posted by Enteroctopus Magnificus View Post
    Decoration is the basis of housing, the most important part.
    Decoration is the finish, not the basis. It might be the most important part to you, but it sits on top of a whole host of other systems without which you wouldn't have anything to decorate.

    When you want a house, you have to start with the foundation, not the furniture.

  2. #84482
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    I think all of the etherealraid icons were used (maybe excluding icon recolors?)

    However… the datamined PvP tabard & cloak for season 3 do look very similar to the newer Ethereal models (particularly with the gem in the center & wrappings)
    Though the cloak has runes similar to what we’ve seen on Xal’atath

    So far the PvP tabard/cloak season 1 were Nerubian themed. And the season 2 PvP tabard/cloak are Undermine/goblin themed. So based on that trend I expect the 11.2 raid to be the “etherealraid”

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    Slightly unrelated, and I might be alone in this…
    But I think it would be really cool if blizzard eventually did a Dreadlord race & were able to play into the infiltrator fantasy somehow.

    But then again I’m also a big fan of the vanilla forsaken intro where they were only using the horde to further their own goals so something similar for Dreadlords would be peak.
    nvm i thought it was the same as wings of shattered sorrow but its different, it has a similar shape tho
    Last edited by alex wolf; 2025-01-18 at 07:34 AM.

  3. #84483
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Irrelevant. When the devs need a character to emote for a cutscene they use completely different hd models from the ones used in game & its always npcs.
    And those NPC characters are based on player models. Look at Garrosh and how much expressive he was in the Siege of Orgrimmar trailer, once he got the new updated player model.

  4. #84484
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I'm already predicting Housing is going to be a dumpster fire. Not because they'll do it badly but because none of the people who want housing want the same thing. They're 100% not going to have individual plots like FFXIV because of how WoW layering works now that its combined with merged servers. If it's purely instanced, there won't be an exterior which is what half of players want. And if its phased, it's basically just a garrison again & people hated that most of all expansion features.
    Housing is one of those things that I always figured would take at least a full expansion to make interesting.
    Similar to pet battles in MoP it will probably be very bare bones to start out with. Lots of players will have issues with stuff like lack of customization or proper reward structure related to it. But by the time Midnight ends it will be considered pretty decent, and hopefully with some equivalent to Raiding with Leashes, which in my opinion is what made pet battles go from niche to something most players can enjoy. Or at least in the case of pet battles, something which has an inroad outside just being a fun designing tool.

    My guess is we will start with 5 different house styles, and maybe plots. 2 faction locked + one generic house. With styles and plots unlocked as the expansion goes, starting with core races, then maybe unique ones based on patch content or Allied races.

    The important thing for me is that the developers focus as much as possible on the decorations, as that is where the system has the most potential for gameplay integrations with stuff like buyable collections. (Exalted with Bastion for Kyrian themed chairs and such)
    Last edited by Sondrelk; 2025-01-18 at 12:08 PM.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  5. #84485
    Over 9000! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Unless I missed something, the 11.1 story does not seem to push the general TWW/WS Saga story much forward. It seems like a repetition of 11.0, where some Xal allies once again experiment with Black Blood. At the point when we arrive at the raid, we even have little reason to go into it, beside helping goblin race and finally removing that pest Gallywix. Overall it feels like devs wanted to just explore Undermine.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  6. #84486
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Unless I missed something, the 11.1 story does not seem to push the general TWW/WS Saga story much forward. It seems like a repetition of 11.0, where some Xal allies once again experiment with Black Blood. At the point when we arrive at the raid, we even have little reason to go into it, beside helping goblin race and finally removing that pest Gallywix. Overall it feels like devs wanted to just explore Undermine.
    Yep, the promise of more coherent storytelling has fallen kind of flat. At this point it is unclear where we are going and everything seems kind of tacked on. There is room for side narratives, but not in a main patch. The thing with telling a more coherent story is that everything needs to feed into the main story, especially with the big patches. There is only 2 large patches per expansion now, so they have to count.
    I will not reply to posts that are non-constructive or contain flaming and/or trolling.

  7. #84487
    I'm not particularly interested in housing but I do hope we get more than just a Human looking place. I want to have a place that has Belf or Nightborne aesthetics, even better if we have one based off of each race tbh, although I doubt that would make it for launch.

  8. #84488
    Over 9000! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    Yep, the promise of more coherent storytelling has fallen kind of flat. At this point it is unclear where we are going and everything seems kind of tacked on. There is room for side narratives, but not in a main patch. The thing with telling a more coherent story is that everything needs to feed into the main story, especially with the big patches. There is only 2 large patches per expansion now, so they have to count.
    It's not incoherent, it just feels like a side-story, similar to Aberrus. We do have an idea where this is all going from the data-mined campaign and we will have 11.1.5 and 11.1.7 patches to take us there.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  9. #84489
    Herald of the Titans Worldshaper's Avatar
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    Just throwing this out there, because why not. After 11.1.5's "Nightfall", the overtly Voidy bits of the Worldsoul Saga will take another break to let things brew, as we head on to another adventure.

    This is Patch 11.2

    - In 11.2, we journey to the "Rootlands".

    - It is "Journey to the Center of the Earth", "Lost World", "King Kong", and so on all wrapped up in one.

    - In stark contrast to the Undermine, it is a primordial, lush, verdant place, brimming with life (although there are pockets of corruption).

    - Very much an "expedition" type of patch, where Arathi and Earthen join forces to explore this mysterious wellspring of life.

    - It's not just a quaint forest with charming little meadows (Emerald Dream), but rather a dangerous and hostile place. Life has to fend for itself down here. Lots of roots, thorns, fungi, huge fronds, and so on.

    - We encounter dinosaurs, botani, quilboar, Haranir, etc. Great beasts fight for dominance.

    - Obviously a paradise for Hunters, Leatherworkers and Skinners, Shaman, etc.

    - The Azerothian Archivists return in "The Big Dig" feature from Dragonflight, letting us excavate ancient and mysterious ruins. The Freysworn are very interested in this stuff.

    - It'll likely culminate in us learning the secrets of Khaz Algar, and unraveling the secret identity of the Old God featured in Azj-Kahet's mural (probably Xal'atath, lol).

  10. #84490
    Of course it's still progressing there story, just not in a major way.
    11.0 saw us damaging the Dark Heart and Xal'ataths plans thwarted for now.

    11.1 has us investigating the Black Blood again, confirming it is used for more than just evolution juice for the Nerubians. It has us taking up the trail of Xal'atath again who repaired the Dark Heart and establishes the Ethereals as a force outside of the lone solitary one we faced in Nerub'ar palace. It also pushes Orwenya further into the spotlight as a major character.

  11. #84491
    Quote Originally Posted by Enrif View Post
    This is the most likely scenario. Either a blockade of some sort or, in the unlikely phase that Midnight QT is connected to Cata EK a Transition zone
    You know what didn't exist when TBC came out? Phasing. If they're going to update the old world, then they're going to need to finally attach Quelthalas to the rest of the Eastern Kingdoms, and if they're not ready to update the rest of EK in Midnight, then they can just phase it.

    I guess the only reason they wouldn't do that is if they actually intend to increase the physical dimensions of the zone. (Which I don't. When they said expand Quelthalas, they didn't mean literally increase its size in a diegetic canon apocalypse. They meant they're going to add island zones around Quelthalas that were always supposed to exist.)
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    And those NPC characters are based on player models. Look at Garrosh and how much expressive he was in the Siege of Orgrimmar trailer, once he got the new updated player model.
    Most of the racial leaders don't participate extensively in stories or cutscenes. And even if they did suddenly give story focus to an Ethereal character, they would simply compensate with body language, like they did with Locus-walker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    My guess is we will start with 5 different house styles, and maybe plots. 2 faction locked + one generic house. With styles and plots unlocked as the expansion goes, starting with core races, then maybe unique ones based on patch content or Allied races.
    I doubt housing is going to be "per character" rather than "shared with warband." But the impossible dilemma is that housing seems impossible to do without phasing or instancing it & that's going to piss off a big chunk of people who have the FFXIV ideal of housing in mind.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2025-01-18 at 02:05 PM.

  12. #84492
    XIV housing is the exception to MMO housing not the rule, and its tech resulted in the highly despised lottery system that would not be possible in WoW without people going nuclear.

  13. #84493
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Most of the racial leaders don't participate extensively in stories or cutscenes. And even if they did suddenly give story focus to an Ethereal character, they would simply compensate with body language, like they did with Locus-walker.
    What are you talking about?
    Thrall, Jaina, Anduin, Tyrande, Sylvanas, Genn, Velen, Baine, etc... participated in countless cutscenes.

  14. #84494
    It's wild to me that people thing FFXIV's housing is any form of ideal. It is one of the worst implementations of housing in an MMORPG. It probably speaks to how few MMOs most people have actually tried.

    The real question for housing is, what is it meant to do. Is it all about collectibles? Is it about player creativity? is it about being social? You need to figure what your goal is and how to deliver it. And all that within the severe limitations that come with WoW, mainly a fairly old engine but also a very difficult sense of scale for indoor spaces.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaggler View Post
    Of course it's still progressing there story, just not in a major way.
    11.0 saw us damaging the Dark Heart and Xal'ataths plans thwarted for now.

    11.1 has us investigating the Black Blood again, confirming it is used for more than just evolution juice for the Nerubians. It has us taking up the trail of Xal'atath again who repaired the Dark Heart and establishes the Ethereals as a force outside of the lone solitary one we faced in Nerub'ar palace. It also pushes Orwenya further into the spotlight as a major character.
    I think the main issue here is that people focus on the main story; 11.1 is not about that. It is about world building one of the oldest yet unexplored areas of Warcraft and with that building up a core Warcraft race.
    I would like a bigger story moment still but I am not mad about finally getting Undermine and having the goblins be the focus of the story.

    Also, I still don't care for Xal'atath. I think she is a lame villain and worked far better as a dagger.

  15. #84495
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    It's wild to me that people thing FFXIV's housing is any form of ideal. It is one of the worst implementations of housing in an MMORPG. It probably speaks to how few MMOs most people have actually tried.

    The real question for housing is, what is it meant to do. Is it all about collectibles? Is it about player creativity? is it about being social? You need to figure what your goal is and how to deliver it. And all that within the severe limitations that come with WoW, mainly a fairly old engine but also a very difficult sense of scale for indoor spaces.

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    I think the main issue here is that people focus on the main story; 11.1 is not about that. It is about world building one of the oldest yet unexplored areas of Warcraft and with that building up a core Warcraft race.
    I would like a bigger story moment still but I am not mad about finally getting Undermine and having the goblins be the focus of the story.

    Also, I still don't care for Xal'atath. I think she is a lame villain and worked far better as a dagger.
    I'd be more than surprised if player housing is not gonna be just several themed houses (Generic Human house, generic orc house, night elf house, cottage etc.) with different doodads you can use to display a selection of "trophies", akin to the Garrison monuments.

    I'd be very surprised if they let you free-place stuff.

  16. #84496
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    It's wild to me that people thing FFXIV's housing is any form of ideal. It is one of the worst implementations of housing in an MMORPG. It probably speaks to how few MMOs most people have actually tried.

    The real question for housing is, what is it meant to do. Is it all about collectibles? Is it about player creativity? is it about being social? You need to figure what your goal is and how to deliver it. And all that within the severe limitations that come with WoW, mainly a fairly old engine but also a very difficult sense of scale for indoor spaces
    Which is the strangest part of this. How are blizzard supposed to design something players want when the players don't know exactly what they want.
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    What are you talking about?
    Thrall, Jaina, Anduin, Tyrande, Sylvanas, Genn, Velen, Baine, etc... participated in countless cutscenes.
    And Umbric, Erazmin, Geya'rah, Brinthe, etc have not.

  17. #84497
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Which is the strangest part of this. How are blizzard supposed to design something players want when the players don't know exactly what they want.
    The devs ALSO want it. They need to figure out what they want to focus on themselves.
    E.g. I'll say ESO's housing was entirely about collections and decorating. Yes, players can actually create houses from nothing in a small few stages but the game POORLY supports that. And the social part has been lacking. They've made it more social with housing tours (you list your house and people can visit it) and players have made it more social with using very large housing plots for guilds (there are some massive houses in ESO so plenty of guildmasters just pick one and leave it open for their entire guilds, adding crafting stations and similar things in it over time). I'd still love housing that could function as a business; inns, taverns and bars or even profession shops.

  18. #84498
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Unless I missed something, the 11.1 story does not seem to push the general TWW/WS Saga story much forward. It seems like a repetition of 11.0, where some Xal allies once again experiment with Black Blood. At the point when we arrive at the raid, we even have little reason to go into it, beside helping goblin race and finally removing that pest Gallywix. Overall it feels like devs wanted to just explore Undermine.
    I think that's sort of intentional, but I see what you mean. We are getting some portions of the TWW/WSS story especially with the Dark Heart. This is how I've viewed the story as of now:

    • Xal'atath is preparing for something with the Dark Heart and the Black Blood underneath Khaz Algar in mind. She promises power to the Nerubians of Azj'Kahet in exchange for their loyalty. She convinces them to wage a war upon the Horde and the Alliance knowing well that this would feed the nefarious energies within the Black Blood, giving her whatever it is she needs for empowerment within the Dark Heart.
    • Her plan is effective, war is waged, and we come out victorious. She nearly empowers the Dark Heart until Alleria damages it.
    • Xal'atath leaves, her next step to repair the Dark Heart which seems to be essential to her plans. Since it was created by Neltharion based off of the original Dragon Soul, she decides to utilize the goblins, it's original creators. This comes at a perfect intersection of fate for her, as the unofficial but still defacto leader of overall Goblin society, Gallywix, is in the business of making a deal with anyone he can for more power (partnership with Sylvanas, discussions with the brokers, etc.).
    • The various Goblin cartels are very active in the day to day situations of Azeroth, and being of an underground capital, they naturally have found their way to Khaz Algar in pursuit of various opportunities. This is just another intersection of fate for Xal'atath.
    • 11.1 comes and now we are bound for Undermine to not just follow the trail of Xal'atath, but to investigate the usage of the Black Blood by the Goblins. We interact with Goblin culture and politics along the way, but our main objective is to understand what they're doing with the Black Blood, the Dark Heart and Xal'atath.

    In some ways, yes, it's similar to 11.0's plot beats, but we still haven't gotten those answers. Xal'atath is still moving forward with her plans, she's taking a detour, and we're on her tail. 11.1.5 will be the inciting action for 12.0, and 11.2 will be the closing chapter for 11.0, which will most likely cover the Rootlands and the source of the Black Blood.

    The purpose of TWW is for the players and the characters in the story to find that Magni's communication with Azeroth was not circumstantial to Sargeras wounding the world, but we're instead given the realization that all of the cosmic powers are making great gambits for the worldsoul. In the Titan's view, Azeroth is the Prime Worldsoul, making it a prize for every power looking to spread its influence. Khaz Algar just happens to be a massive hub of that happening with the Black Blood, Elun'ahir, Beledar (I'm still banking on it being Naaru affiliated), and the Earthen.

    • Xal'atath, Alleria and the empowerment of the Dark Heart is the World Soul Saga thread.
    • The Earthen learning the truth of their given purpose from the Titans, the origins and dangers of the Black Blood, and whatever the situation is with the Haranir and Elun'ahir is the Khaz Algar/The War Within thread.

    This is all my interpretation with the pacing so far at least. I've been pretty happy with it.

  19. #84499
    I assume the story is going to pick up a lot in Nightfall.

    TWW obviously started out with a different direction so its natural they can only do so much to retrofit the saga story on top of some of it. I think by Nightfall though it will fall into its own.

  20. #84500
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Decoration is the finish, not the basis. It might be the most important part to you, but it sits on top of a whole host of other systems without which you wouldn't have anything to decorate.

    When you want a house, you have to start with the foundation, not the furniture.
    Apart from repeating over and over that decoration isn't that important without explaining why, do it or your intervention will be useless. Anyone can come, say “no” and leave without explaining their way of thinking, it's almost trolling.

    So, for you, what's more important than housing decoration? That's more relevant and interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    I'd be very surprised if they let you free-place stuff.
    Why? We already have toys that we can place freely in the world.

    I sincerely believe that people greatly underestimate the game engine, which may be old, but that doesn't mean you can't do anything with it. Especially since they've been updating it non-stop for 20 years. It's literally not the same engine as in 2004.
    Last edited by Enteroctopus Magnificus; 2025-01-18 at 07:50 PM.

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