1. #84541
    Why do you go on with your light/draenei/naaru theories when it says in game that it's got nothing to do with it?

    Beledar is a crystallized soul fragment of the worldsoul. I think it's pretty clear that it's not a Naaru ship or a portal for a draenei from another timeline AND another planet, since this has been denied.

    It was a good idea, a very good one indeed (Naaru ship, not Yrel), but too obvious. It's much more complex and mysterious than that, and I really like the direction it's taking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    Speaking of Beledar has there been any more conclusiveness to where the Radiant Song is coming from?
    The radiant song comes from the worldsoul. Anduin wonders if it came from Beledar at some point, as he feels a similarity to it (normal, since it's a soul fragment from the worldsoul).

    Anyway, from our point of view, we've known it since the cinematics, but the WoW characters haven't. That's pretty bad writing.
    Last edited by Enteroctopus Magnificus; 2025-01-20 at 02:58 AM.

  2. #84542
    Quote Originally Posted by Enteroctopus Magnificus View Post
    Why do you go on with your light/draenei/naaru theories when it says in game that it's got nothing to do with it?

    Beledar is a crystallized soul fragment of the worldsoul. I think it's pretty clear that it's not a Naaru ship or a portal for a draenei from another timeline AND another planet, since this has been denied.

    It was a good idea, a very good one indeed (Naaru ship, not Yrel), but too obvious. It's much more complex and mysterious than that, and I really like the direction it's taking.
    My opinion is the opposite. Take Yrel and the Lightbound out of it, that's the tin foil portion of it. The in game source that says it is crystallized worldsoul is Archaedes; we are given this information at a time when the story is revealing the Titans and Keepers may not have been doing things in a manner that was very truthful to the Earthen with the implication that there is a lot hidden from them. The same can be said for the Titans communications with the Keepers, they may not have the full story either.

    So yes, as it is being presented to us currently, Beledar is a portion of crystallized essence of the worldsoul. But, there are many things around Beledar that point far closer to the Light than the Worldsoul. I am saying I think that Archaedes' entry in the Titan Disc Fragment quests is a misdirect, and we will soon learn that Beledar has more of a role to play.

    The only piece of information we have of Midnight aside from the return to Quel'thalas is that we will "fight alongside the Armies of the Light against the Shadow." If we are to go through TWW with zero mention of the Light, then I am truly confused how we get there in Midnight. Without it, Beledar is just a set piece.

  3. #84543
    Quote Originally Posted by Enteroctopus Magnificus View Post
    Anyway, from our point of view, we've known it since the cinematics, but the WoW characters haven't. That's pretty bad writing.
    They've known too since the start of TWW. Magni communed with Azeroth right after the cinematic, and revealed it was her as soon as he woke up from the following coma at the start of the Dalaran quests. It's not a mystery at all.

  4. #84544
    Quote Originally Posted by Enteroctopus Magnificus View Post
    Why do you go on with your light/draenei/naaru theories when it says in game that it's got nothing to do with it?

    Beledar is a crystallized soul fragment of the worldsoul. I think it's pretty clear that it's not a Naaru ship or a portal for a draenei from another timeline AND another planet, since this has been denied.

    It was a good idea, a very good one indeed (Naaru ship, not Yrel), but too obvious. It's much more complex and mysterious than that, and I really like the direction it's taking.
    I'm confused, so it's exactly what the game says it is but it's also mysterious?

    The fact that it is named like a Draenei/Naaru ship, covered in runes, and cycles between Light and Void like the Naaru implies more than "it's an Azeroth crystal" IMO. And the Archaedas recordings never confirmed what the giant crystals are, it was a theory from them.

  5. #84545
    Quote Originally Posted by milkmustache View Post
    we are given this information at a time when the story is revealing the Titans and Keepers may not have been doing things in a manner that was very truthful to the Earthen with the implication that there is a lot hidden from them. The same can be said for the Titans communications with the Keepers, they may not have the full story either.

    So yes, as it is being presented to us currently, Beledar is a portion of crystallized essence of the worldsoul. But, there are many things around Beledar that point far closer to the Light than the Worldsoul. I am saying I think that Archaedes' entry in the Titan Disc Fragment quests is a misdirect, and we will soon learn that Beledar has more of a role to play.
    And Archaedas himself says he doesn't know why he's writing this information down at the risk of it being discovered by mortals/earthens. He was clearly not supposed to reveal this information, which seems to be the true version of things.

    You know, like the part with Anduin wondering if the radiant song he's hearing is from Beledar because he senses similarities? This strongly confirms the Titans' observations on the origin of the crystals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldryth View Post
    They've known too since the start of TWW. Magni communed with Azeroth right after the cinematic, and revealed it was her as soon as he woke up from the following coma at the start of the Dalaran quests. It's not a mystery at all.
    Have you actually played TWW? Because it's more nuanced than that, they didn't actually know where these chants were coming from, quote “from who or what”.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I'm confused, so it's exactly what the game says it is but it's also mysterious?
    I mean, it's more complex and mysterious than a simple naaru ship. We know they're soul crystals, but we don't know much about them. It's literally all in the game, do even half the people on this forum play the game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    The fact that it is named like a Draenei/Naaru ship, covered in runes, and cycles between Light and Void like the Naaru implies more than "it's an Azeroth crystal" IMO. And the Archaedas recordings never confirmed what the giant crystals are, it was a theory from them.
    Instead, say you prefer your headcanon to what's really going on.
    Last edited by Enteroctopus Magnificus; 2025-01-20 at 04:15 AM.

  6. #84546
    It seems like, if the oldest evidence suggests it's an Azerite crystal*, AND it's very much like other giant light/void crystal ships we've seen... the next question to ask is: is Genedar an Argunite crystal? Did the naaru find it, come from it, were they drawn toward it, etc.?

    And what about the other giant crystals, are they all light/void-attuned, or are there other kinds, like Eonite crystals attuned to life/death? (Or other Azerite ones that aren't inherently related to light/void.)

    * could be that the titan-aligned evidence is wrong, but I'd be more willing to believe the answer is that it's both, rather than that that's a flat-out misdirect

  7. #84547
    Quote Originally Posted by production View Post
    It seems like, if the oldest evidence suggests it's an Azerite crystal*, AND it's very much like other giant light/void crystal ships we've seen... the next question to ask is: is Genedar an Argunite crystal? Did the naaru find it, come from it, were they drawn toward it, etc.?
    We don't know about Genedar but Xenedar was 100% made of Argunite. One would assume Genedar would be the same. But it could poentially be made of another crystalized worldsoul essence. Not impossible to believe that Naaru make these ships out of Azerite equivalents and traverse the universe in them.

  8. #84548
    Quote Originally Posted by Enteroctopus Magnificus View Post
    Why do you go on with your light/draenei/naaru theories when it says in game that it's got nothing to do with it?

    Beledar is a crystallized soul fragment of the worldsoul. I think it's pretty clear that it's not a Naaru ship or a portal for a draenei from another timeline AND another planet, since this has been denied.

    It was a good idea, a very good one indeed (Naaru ship, not Yrel), but too obvious. It's much more complex and mysterious than that, and I really like the direction it's taking.

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    The radiant song comes from the worldsoul. Anduin wonders if it came from Beledar at some point, as he feels a similarity to it (normal, since it's a soul fragment from the worldsoul).

    Anyway, from our point of view, we've known it since the cinematics, but the WoW characters haven't. That's pretty bad writing.
    I think it being a Worldsoul crystal that was infused by a Naaru or so would make sense.

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    It being a Worldsoul crystal is already a thing, so the idea that, long ago, a Naaru infused itself with the world crystal would make for a killer reveal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    We don't know about Genedar but Xenedar was 100% made of Argunite. One would assume Genedar would be the same. But it could poentially be made of another crystalized worldsoul essence. Not impossible to believe that Naaru make these ships out of Azerite equivalents and traverse the universe in them.
    Light infused Worldsoul crystals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I'm confused, so it's exactly what the game says it is but it's also mysterious?

    The fact that it is named like a Draenei/Naaru ship, covered in runes, and cycles between Light and Void like the Naaru implies more than "it's an Azeroth crystal" IMO. And the Archaedas recordings never confirmed what the giant crystals are, it was a theory from them.
    Light. Infused. Worldsoul. Crystal.

    Y'all, connect the dots here!

  9. #84549
    I could see Beledar being a naaru or other light being that was helping maintain the manifold prison that azeorth encased in crystal and ejected like a cyst

  10. #84550
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuaj View Post
    I think it being a Worldsoul crystal that was infused by a Naaru or so would make sense.

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    It being a Worldsoul crystal is already a thing, so the idea that, long ago, a Naaru infused itself with the world crystal would make for a killer reveal.

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    Light infused Worldsoul crystals

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    Light. Infused. Worldsoul. Crystal.

    Y'all, connect the dots here!
    What if we got it backwards. What if Naaru ships in general are similar crystals from other world souls which got "repurposed".

  11. #84551
    Quote Originally Posted by Enteroctopus Magnificus View Post
    And Archaedas himself says he doesn't know why he's writing this information down at the risk of it being discovered by mortals/earthens. He was clearly not supposed to reveal this information, which seems to be the true version of things.

    You know, like the part with Anduin wondering if the radiant song he's hearing is from Beledar because he senses similarities? This strongly confirms the Titans' observations on the origin of the crystals.
    But again, I disagree. Your interpretation is Archaedes' confusion about sharing this detail equates to him being truthful. I'd argue that it's the opposite, as we are well aware of the Titan's ability to program thoughts into their titanforged. Over the course of the past two expansions we have been fed breadcrumbs about the dishonesty and secrecy of the Titans. I see no reason to believe them at the moment.

    I had hoped by this point we would get a little more information on Siren Isle to help us piece together things about Beledar, but that seems further off. I truly think that Beledar is far more Light related than Worldsoul related. Sure, Light infused worldsoul crystal is possible, maybe that is how the Naaru stake their claims across various worlds, as they did with Argunite for the Xenedar.

    But it would be a horrible use of Beledar for it not to be related to the Light. Everything we've known about the Light and the Naaru going back to Burning Crusade implies that Beledar has at least something to do with the Light. To subvert all that and just call it a worldsoul fragment is a horrible usage of Beledar.

  12. #84552
    Quote Originally Posted by Enteroctopus Magnificus View Post
    You know, like the part with Anduin wondering if the radiant song he's hearing is from Beledar because he senses similarities? This strongly confirms the Titans' observations on the origin of the crystals.
    Wouldn't the song from beledar need to be the same as azeroths for a confirmation? Im pretty sure the implication from anduin and the siren isle is that they are not a part of azeroth and are simply repeating/echoing the song for some reason.

  13. #84553
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaggler View Post
    What if we got it backwards. What if Naaru ships in general are similar crystals from other world souls which got "repurposed".
    That's what I'm thinking lol. Don't know if I'm one of the folks that got it backwards tho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alex wolf View Post
    I could see Beledar being a naaru or other light being that was helping maintain the manifold prison that azeorth encased in crystal and ejected like a cyst
    Why would a Naaru help out the Titans mission on Azeroth? Unless it's confirmed the Light aided the Order Pantheon in some way back in the day, I don't think this is the case.

  14. #84554
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuaj View Post
    That's what I'm thinking lol. Don't know if I'm one of the folks that got it backwards tho.

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    Why would a Naaru help out the Titans mission on Azeroth? Unless it's confirmed the Light aided the Order Pantheon in some way back in the day, I don't think this is the case.
    I'm pretty sure the titans and the light are working together considering they share the "one true timeline" ideology

  15. #84555
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuaj View Post
    That's what I'm thinking lol. Don't know if I'm one of the folks that got it backwards tho.

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    Why would a Naaru help out the Titans mission on Azeroth? Unless it's confirmed the Light aided the Order Pantheon in some way back in the day, I don't think this is the case.
    I do like the idea of Naaru repurposing things. It kind of fits with the path of the Light. Reforging, making a new, giving the gift a la Illidan and Xera.

    I like to think that a part of the TLT conspiracy will be that the Titans and the Light both work hand in hand for dominance of various world souls, or something along the line, so I think there's a possibility there of the two working together, though I'm not sure that will be the purpose of Beledar.

  16. #84556
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Hard to say. It was last seen in Ny'alotha, so presumably N'zoth would be in possession of it assuming he survived.
    Was the idea that Wrathion intended to use the dagger to kill nzoth or trap him inside it? Either way after the heart of azeroth brain blast I don't think he would just leave the dagger behind.

  17. #84557
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    So someone on r/wow pointed out that this kind of sounds like Beledar.

    https://i.redd.it/e80gimf6c0ee1.png

    What are we thinking? If it's true, is "Army of Light in stasis" back on the menu?
    Only real similarity is that there big crystals and right after that’s mentioned in the story it’s pointed out that it’s not a real thing a and just a lie made up by the void.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  18. #84558
    Quote Originally Posted by alex wolf View Post
    I'm pretty sure the titans and the light are working together considering they share the "one true timeline" ideology
    Possibly, but I have another idea. It is entirely possible that, before the Titans found Azeroth, the Light battled the Void on the planet and ultimately lost. However, right before they retreated or so, the Light ensured that some of its influence remained on the planet VIA having some of the Naaru infuse themselves within Worldsoul Crystals. One of these crystals would ultimately become Beledar. This would explain both Azeroth's songs coming from the crystal, it being called a "Naaru Crystal" in early developer notes, it being named akin to a Naaru ship, and the way it acts (Since it very much acts like how the Light functioned in the early stages of the Dark Beyond, where its energies served as sources for life to flourish on worlds and whatnot).

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    Quote Originally Posted by milkmustache View Post
    I do like the idea of Naaru repurposing things. It kind of fits with the path of the Light. Reforging, making a new, giving the gift a la Illidan and Xera.

    I like to think that a part of the TLT conspiracy will be that the Titans and the Light both work hand in hand for dominance of various world souls, or something along the line, so I think there's a possibility there of the two working together, though I'm not sure that will be the purpose of Beledar.
    Light's Pantheon and Order's Pantheon working together would make sense, 100%. Heck, Elune worked with both the Titans and the Light, and the Primus has memories of the Titans and knows of Elune's role in the cosmos, would only make sense for Light, Death, Life, and Order to work with eachother in that regard.

    Heck, Life, Order, and Light working together could explain Mu'sha, An'she, and Lo'sho.

    How? Simple. I think they're Naaru. Not only that, I think they were sent to protect Azeroth's Sun and Moons for a specific purpose. What purpose? Dunno, but I have a tinfoil hat theory in mind. And if you're wondering, yes, I do think us going to Azeroths Sun and Moons would make for a killer expansion.

  19. #84559
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Was the idea that Wrathion intended to use the dagger to kill nzoth or trap him inside it? Either way after the heart of azeroth brain blast I don't think he would just leave the dagger behind.
    There wasn't really a plan being shown. We just happen to acquire the knife from Azshara after we free her, then use it hoping it works.

    Maybe that was Wrathions idea of what would happen. But going by what we see in game, and assuming N'zoth assumed he might be defeated. The most likely explanation of what happens is that N'zoth manipulated the Horde champion into giving the knife to Sylvanas, knowing it would eventually end up with Azshara, then to Ny'alotha when he inevitably captured her.
    N'zoth was after all insistent that the empty knife was left with him. And he did explicitly manipulate the horde champion to give it to Sylvanas. The going theory is that N'zoth is inside the knife, but with more freedom to do what he wants compared to Xal'atath who was fully trapped.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  20. #84560
    Legendary! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    N'zoth was after all insistent that the empty knife was left with him. And he did explicitly manipulate the horde champion to give it to Sylvanas. The going theory is that N'zoth is inside the knife, but with more freedom to do what he wants compared to Xal'atath who was fully trapped.
    A story thread that Blizzard hopefully doesn't drop altogether.
    Of all the narrative stumbles Blizzard seemingly realized and attempted to rectify later on (Illidan, for example) I still feel that N'Zoth has been the loudest criticism in terms of fumbling major characters, in terms of killing them off. Perhaps Garrosh is the biggest, actually.

    Planting seeds of N'Zoth still being out there, active, and having influence (time travel quest in Dragonflight, for example) seems like a really dumb thing to do if they do not intend to bring him back ever.

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