The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

It's actually embarrassing that I didn't know any Void Lords were named besides Dimensius. I wonder if they will bother to characterize anyone besides big D?

[Viridiel]

I think they claimed the Dark Heart to either feed Dimensius, consume the worldsoul of K'aresh's essence, both (?), or feed K'aresh extra power and whatnot.

Regardless, it's likely got something to do with the "awakening" that's talked about in A Song From The Depths.

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Also, I do wonder. Is Pandemonius an actual Void Lord? Or is it just a Voidlord?

Cause ik in Lovecraft, Outer Gods were in service of more powerful Outer Gods, so maybe this is a similar case but for WoW?

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Dimensius- Consumes all

Invalidus- Negates all

Pandaemonius- Disturbs all

Gotta give it to the Void Lords (assuming all 3 of them are true Void Lords, of course), they surely live up to their name.

My hope is that there isn't really a clear delineation at all, and all Void creatures are just on a gradient from a voidwalker to a Void Lord proper. The manufactured pantheon of Death was unpopular and a bit confusing, and the Void's thing is meant to be survival of the fittest.

I think Dimensius and Invalidus are the highest ranking Void Lords we know of, but Pandemonius, Arconus, and Galaxis might count as lesser Lords.

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It's actually embarrassing that I didn't know any Void Lords were named besides Dimensius. I wonder if they will bother to characterize anyone besides big D?

Invalidus was only confirmed as an actual Void Lord in the latest Chronicle. I think we'll eventually get characterisation for all of them if we ever experience the actual final war between Light and Shadow, but I'm not sold on that ever actually happening. Maybe we'll defeat Dimensius and Invalidus will show up to eat his remains and take over as the most important Void Lord.

[Joshuaj]

My hope is that there isn't really a clear delineation at all, and all Void creatures are just on a gradient from a voidwalker to a Void Lord proper. The manufactured pantheon of Death was unpopular and a bit confusing, and the Void's thing is meant to be survival of the fittest.

I think Dimensius and Invalidus are the highest ranking Void Lords we know of, but Pandemonius, Arconus, and Galaxis might count as lesser Lords.

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Invalidus was only confirmed as an actual Void Lord in the latest Chronicle. I think we'll eventually get characterisation for all of them if we ever experience the actual final war between Light and Shadow, but I'm not sold on that ever actually happening. Maybe we'll defeat Dimensius and Invalidus will show up to eat his remains and take over as the most important Void Lord.

They probably work akin to the Outer Gods (The Outer Gods work similar to how you wanted the Void Lords to operate), and that's fine. It's already been confirmed there's no clear hierarchy regarding them, so fluctuations of power makes sense.

Also, "manufactured" is such a silly thing to say. If you really wanna use that logic, the entire WoW Cosmos is "manufactured" cause the realms and whatnot came from the Zereths.

[Mackud]

Dimensius- Consumes all

Invalidus- Negates all

Pandaemonius- Disturbs all

Gotta give it to the Void Lords (assuming all 3 of them are true Void Lords, of course), they surely live up to their name.

For once it's actually really good speculation.

The problem is we've already had Pandeomonius, as a 5 man boss in Mana Tombs, as it was as described, as a Void Lord

This one actually forced me to look it up, his death speech suggests he was also been banished back to Ka'resh so he'll be about too.

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did some TBC mog farming today and one of the dungeons was mana tombs. and given recent things, it made me "huh?"
.

Those Ethereal are just bandits who aren't even part of a faction nor associated with the void.

Mana siphoning is a magic which can tear a rift in the void which Voidwalkers can enter (or in bad cases a Void Lord) which is why the Mana Forges in Netherstorm was an experiment which went terribly out of control accidentally summoning in Dimensius in the process, the same applied to the bandits but on a lesser scale.

The entire quest chain with the Mana Forges will confirm it for you. And Kael'Thas definitely didn't intentionally summon a Void Lord despite being part of the Burning Legion.

Whilst there will be other hostile and friendly Ethereal factions, the center story will be around the Shadowguard because the story with their intentions and how unhinged they are has already been done, like literally a full zone dedicated to them - They didn't invade Argus for a few mana cells, they invaded Argus with the intention of taking Antorus and the Unmaker for themselves so it's already been written these are the unhinged evil faction. It's easy to forget as Argus was centred around the Burning Legion but the entire zone of Eredath explains that these guys are far from some random plebs just written in.

[Viridiel]

Also, "manufactured" is such a silly thing to say. If you really wanna use that logic, the entire WoW Cosmos is "manufactured" cause the realms and whatnot came from the Zereths.

What term would you rather I use to differentiate a pantheon which was hand-crafted by the First Ones with specific realms of influence within their given cosmic niche from a pantheon which arises naturally from native inhabitants of a given realm fighting for supremacy?

[Hitei]

What term would you rather I use to differentiate a pantheon which was hand-crafted by the First Ones with specific realms of influence within their given cosmic niche from a pantheon which arises naturally from native inhabitants of a given realm fighting for supremacy?

"Regimented" is probably more appropriate. As Joshuaj said, all of them are manufactured. "Naturally" and "native" in this cosmos are just as manufactured. The Void operates on consumption and competition because it was designed to do so as part of the larger, six-sided balance.

[Ersula]

What term would you rather I use to differentiate a pantheon which was hand-crafted by the First Ones with specific realms of influence within their given cosmic niche from a pantheon which arises naturally from native inhabitants of a given realm fighting for supremacy?

Is there a difference? Those spheres of influence were also created by the First Ones. They classified the cosmology that way. The influence of Order and the influence of the Titans is the exact same thing because that's who the First Ones put in charge of that sphere.

[Joshuaj]

Is there a difference? Those spheres of influence were also created by the First Ones. They classified the cosmology that way. The influence of Order and the influence of the Titans is the exact same thing because that's who the First Ones put in charge of that sphere.

Well, the influence of Order as a WHOLE is a cosmic ordeal. Any type of system, government, etc is the result of that influence. The Titans embody that influence to its absolute, but they aren't the entire cosmic force, as they seemingly don't hold sway on things like the Shadowlands' system, or the functionalities of the Light and its structure, etc.

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Basically, think of it like this:

Order is a Progenitor

Order gives a piece of itself to the Design

The piece becomes the influence of Order

Zereth Ordus creates the laws of the universe and creates the Titans

The Titans are the Pantheon of Order

However, the Titans are not the influence of Order in its entirety. They embody it and rule over it, but the influence of Order extends past even their reach.

"Order" (The Architect) > Order (The Force) > The Titans (The Pantheon of Order).

[Enrif]

I think they claimed the Dark Heart to either feed Dimensius, consume the worldsoul of K'aresh's essence, both (?), or feed K'aresh extra power and whatnot.

Regardless, it's likely got something to do with the "awakening" that's talked about in A Song From The Depths.

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Also, I do wonder. Is Pandemonius an actual Void Lord? Or is it just a Voidlord?

Cause ik in Lovecraft, Outer Gods were in service of more powerful Outer Gods, so maybe this is a similar case but for WoW?

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Dimensius- Consumes all

Invalidus- Negates all

Pandemonius- Disturbs all

Gotta give it to the Void Lords (assuming all 3 of them are true Void Lords, of course), they surely live up to their name.

i think we don't really know what a Void Lord is. Invalidus was just a mob in WoD, Pandemonius is just a 5 man boss, and Dimensius was the biggest quest set piece in netherstorm. None of them really befitted the title of Void Lord that is on par with a Titan, at best Dimensius as he was really big, but that's about it.

Then again, the titles for Pandemonius are interesting: Duke of Chaos, the Eater of Nations, and Worldslayer
And i can't really see him being worth any of these titles, the way he is depicted.

Someone else once brought it up somewhere, the the void lords we faced so far, are not their true form, but just a fragment of them. Similar to the Keepers perhaps. An extension of their greater power.

I think, if the void lords appear for Midnight, they will likely be completely different to what we saw of them in the past. And Kudos to blizzard if they remember that Pandemonius was a commander to Dimensius and he also shows up again.

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Those Ethereal are just bandits who aren't even part of a faction nor associated with the void.

Mana siphoning is a magic which can tear a rift in the void which Voidwalkers can enter (or in bad cases a Void Lord) which is why the Mana Forges in Netherstorm was an experiment which went terribly out of control accidentally summoning in Dimensius in the process, the same applied to the bandits but on a lesser scale.

The entire quest chain with the Mana Forges will confirm it for you. And Kael'Thas definitely didn't intentionally summon a Void Lord despite being part of the Burning Legion.

Whilst there will be other hostile and friendly Ethereal factions, the center story will be around the Shadowguard because the story with their intentions and how unhinged they are has already been done, like literally a full zone dedicated to them - They didn't invade Argus for a few mana cells, they invaded Argus with the intention of taking Antorus and the Unmaker for themselves so it's already been written these are the unhinged evil faction. It's easy to forget as Argus was centred around the Burning Legion but the entire zone of Eredath explains that these guys are far from some random plebs just written in.

Well, the ethereals that stole the dark heart don't seem to be of the shadowguard. and i think, with the inclusion of ethereals, and return to quel'thalas (a TBC area), blizz might look up their old ethereal stuff from TBC, like the Mana-Tomb and the story of the ethereals of netherstrom and get inspiration for it to retreat a few of these story beats. And the subjugation of a void lord by an ethereal is something they could do. Subjugating Dimensius would be the next best thing to destroying Dimensius for many ethereals i would wager.

[Eldryth]

It's hard to judge if most of the Burning Crusade "Void Lords" are actually the gods we think of when we talk about Void Lords now. Originally they used that name for what was effectively just a stronger variety of Voidwalkers, and that only changed 9 years later when Chronicles and Legion established the current cosmology. Only Dimensius (and possibly Invalidus, though I've seen disagreements on whether they used the old meaning there and I don't have it to check) is confirmed to be the new kind of Void Lord.

Even them destroying worlds isn't really an indication of what they are because Burning Crusade's power scaling is so crazy that stuff like that was normal at the time. Remember Murmur, the random sound elemental that destroys whatever world it came across, and never developed beyond that? Or the fact that the entire expansion was set on a world destroyed by an Orc Shaman/Warlock with a few powerful artifacts. Even in newer lore, Illidan destroyed Nathreza with a single (iirc unassisted) spell.

[Enrif]

It's hard to judge if most of the Burning Crusade "Void Lords" are actually the gods we think of when we talk about Void Lords now. Originally they used that name for what was effectively just a stronger variety of Voidwalkers, and that only changed 9 years later when Chronicles and Legion established the current cosmology. Only Dimensius (and possibly Invalidus, though I've seen disagreements on whether they used the old meaning there and I don't have it to check) is confirmed to be the new kind of Void Lord.

Even them destroying worlds isn't really an indication of what they are because Burning Crusade's power scaling is so crazy that stuff like that was normal at the time. Remember Murmur, the random sound elemental that destroys whatever world it came across, and never developed beyond that? Or the fact that the entire expansion was set on a world destroyed by an Orc Shaman/Warlock with a few powerful artifacts. Even in newer lore, Illidan destroyed Nathreza with a single (iirc unassisted) spell.

yeah, that is kind of the issue. before chronicles, a void lord was just a powerful voidwalker. Not to forget the void god from sunwell plateau, which is a whole other can of worms to the whole thing.

We need a real good ingame characterization of the void to see how things are now. What is a void lord, what isn't a void lord. How do they differentiate all those old "void lords" and "void gods" and other stuff.

[Nymrohd]

Honestly every present depiction of the Void Lords has been hilariously underwhelming and their naming scheme belongs to a teenager Game Master's first campaign setting. DIMENSIUS & INVALIDUS? What is next, ANNULUS, INERTIUS AND RETARDIUS? I get that they span the Void Lords from some throwaway quests in Netherstorm in TBC, an expansion with no respect for worldbuilding were they just threw things at the wall like Murmur or making all the cast of TFT villains but at least make an effort to dress them up a bit.

And how the Void is led by Void Lords, but there are also easily summonable Voidlord mobs and fallen Naaru become Void Gods that eminently sounds stronger than Void Lords . . . make it make sense. I don't understand why they did not fix these inconsistencies with the Chronicle but after they decided to take a shit on that overpriced "fiction" that was sold and presented as the lore bible who cares even.

[Mackud]

Well, the ethereals that stole the dark heart don't seem to be of the shadowguard. and i think, with the inclusion of ethereals, and return to quel'thalas (a TBC area), blizz might look up their old ethereal stuff from TBC, like the Mana-Tomb and the story of the ethereals of netherstrom and get inspiration for it to retreat a few of these story beats. And the subjugation of a void lord by an ethereal is something they could do. Subjugating Dimensius would be the next best thing to destroying Dimensius for many ethereals i would wager.

They're 100% the Shadowguard and you'd be an absolute imbecile to think they're not at this stage. They were written in the TWW story before the game even came out, like I said they're front and center of the story.

There's only 1 other hostile faction associated with the Void and they were destroyed during the Void Elf unlock questline, all the other hostile factions aren't associated with the void - Ethereum, Zaxxis etc.

So if logic didn't work, process of elimination comes to the same conclusion also.

Also. A Void God is just a turned a Naaru turned Voidwalker, there's no ranking involved like Lord > God etc and unlike Lords, Gods corruption reversible which is pretty much what the Entire Priest Legion Class Hall is about.

[Enrif]

They're 100% the Shadowguard and you'd be an absolute imbecile to think they're not at this stage. They were written in the TWW story before the game even came out, like I said they're front and center of the story.

Ah, yes, like it was 100% sure Azir works for Xal. See how that turned out.

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There's only 1 other hostile faction associated with the Void and they were destroyed during the Void Elf unlock questline, all the other hostile factions aren't associated with the void - Ethereum, Zaxxis etc.

So if logic didn't work, process of elimination comes to the same conclusion also.

Blizz can just make up new groups. We don't know all ethereal groups, jsut those relevant so far

[Joshuaj]

Honestly every present depiction of the Void Lords has been hilariously underwhelming and their naming scheme belongs to a teenager Game Master's first campaign setting. DIMENSIUS & INVALIDUS? What is next, ANNULUS, INERTIUS AND RETARDIUS? I get that they span the Void Lords from some throwaway quests in Netherstorm in TBC, an expansion with no respect for worldbuilding were they just threw things at the wall like Murmur or making all the cast of TFT villains but at least make an effort to dress them up a bit.

And how the Void is led by Void Lords, but there are also easily summonable Voidlord mobs and fallen Naaru become Void Gods that eminently sounds stronger than Void Lords . . . make it make sense. I don't understand why they did not fix these inconsistencies with the Chronicle but after they decided to take a shit on that overpriced "fiction" that was sold and presented as the lore bible who cares even.

In an out-of-universe perspective, they chose the name "Void Lords" because that's the closest you can get to "Outer God" without it feeling like a potential lawsuit lol.

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Outer = Void

God = Lord

They mean the same thing, especially in the context of Lovecraft lol

[Mackud]

Ah, yes, like it was 100% sure Azir works for Xal. See how that turned out.

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Blizz can just make up new groups. We don't know all ethereal groups, jsut those relevant so far

I'm honestly not sure why you're in this thread, you're just dismissing any bit of in-game evidence and only interested in how your own fantasy take on things.

I mean the whole thing about Void Gods and there's a massive caged one in Netherlight Temple which turns back into a Naaru kinda proves it.

[Ersula]

"Order" (The Architect) > Order (The Force) > The Titans (The Pantheon of Order).

Aren't the Titans all those things? There's order magic, which is contentious on its own, but since the concept of order, without the first ones, is completely subjective, it seems like there's no point in distinguishing it. If it isn't in the Titans purview, it might as well not be considered "order."

They're 100% the Shadowguard and you'd be an absolute imbecile to think they're not at this stage. They were written in the TWW story before the game even came out, like I said they're front and center of the story.

I want to say the Ethereal that took the heart isn't quite as shadowy as the Shadowguard so there's a chance he was just a good ethereal who took the heart, but I really hope they are the Shadowguard because then there's a chance a portion of the Saga to be us teaming up with Xal'atath with the pretense that she's like "well I fucked up, if Dimensius takes Azeroth I won't get it so we need to drive them off"

[Nymrohd]

Blizzcon is back baby! And it moved to September!

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

If you don't want to run a convention then don't run a convention. Another yearly delay is just clearly showcasing that they don't really want to do this.

We've got Directs, its enough. Especially when we know they probably cancel after this 2026 convention, anyways. Oh well, a final hurrah is at least good for those who want it.

[Ersula]

Blizzcon is back baby! And it moved to September!

So when they showed the Midnight reveal as being at the end of summer, they just meant at Blizzcon. Although that's odd its so soon. The announcement is super late. Typically Blizzcon ticket sales happen at least 7 months beforehand.

EDIT: Nevermind. I see that its next september.

If you don't want to run a convention then don't run a convention. Another yearly delay is just clearly showcasing that they don't really want to do this.

We've got Directs, its enough. Especially when we know they probably cancel after this 2026 convention, anyways. Oh well, a final hurrah is at least good for those who want it.

Why does it need to be every year or not at all? Biennial is valid.

We've seen Blizzcons without enough to announce be really miserable, but they can't really force stuff that isn't ready to show into the convention. Seems smarter to just spread out the Blizzcons.